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Schefter: Cassel (and Vrabel) to Chiefs for 2009 2nd-rounder [merged]


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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

To anybody who is upset, you deserve the misery.

Just shutup and watch what happens next. FLEXIBILITY.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Terrible deal for NE...This means Sanchez and Stafford are assumed to be better cos they'll be top10 draft pics. Cassel has proven he can play in the NFL...Sanchez and Stafford can be busts. The chances of Cassel being a bust is less although Sanchez and Stafford have the chance of being better because they are younger. I think Cassel is a safer investment.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

There were many factors working against the Pats:

-Cassel was playing with statistically the best offense in history, and played a very easy schedule. Teams had to question how much this factored into his success.

-No team would trade for Cassel unless they felt confident they could get a deal done. Cassel had control. The Patriots may have gotten better offers from other teams, such as the Lions, but Cassel wouldn't want to go there.

^ Limits potential trade partners to teams Cassel was willing to go to. Less competition = worse deal for Pats.

-Everyone knew the Pats couldn't realistically keep Cassel on the roster at that cap figure - the Pats weren't in the driving seat, the other teams were.

The Pats had very little leverage in this situation. Cassel had control, and the teams trading with the Pats had the upper-hand in negotiations, knowing the Pats HAD to get rid of Cassel. The Pats had to deal with all of these factors, and all things considered, I'm content with a high 2nd.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

yea right..BB got taken to the cleaners by pioli....Pats got the max they could...at the time they needed to. they control the 2nd round! with possible move up in 1st.
i expected more...but it obviously wasnt there...many coaches who are lifetime losers prefer, sages dantes and junior qbs....geez i wonder why they are all on teams that suck!
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

Well the draft is not exactly tomorrow, so we could have easily waited and fielded better offers. I have a feeling the Lions would have given us the 20th pick for Cassel and Vrabel. Just wait and see when the Panther get this years plus next years first rounders for Peppers. Wow I am simply stunned!!!!

maybe but you are comparing a proven pass rusher in the league vs a 7th rounder who has played 15 games since high school.i personally didnt think cassel and peppers were an exact swap.
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

Not a huge fan of this trade, but I guess it shows that the market for Cassel really wasn't there. If we extend Wilfork this offseason using some of the money we saved, I'll be a bigger fan of the deal.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Now that it's done, consider this.

The Patriots don't care what picks they have, or where their picks are "rated". They only care that they get who they want at the right value.

If they see a lot of meat between Mid #1 and the whole second round, you realize they can game the hell out of this draft.

If they like a player they think won't go til the bottom of round two, they can still guarantee getting him by using the top or mid second rounder, knowing they still have a pick a few spots away to pick up the guy the league board values.

In other words, they can trade up and down to get "their" player, but they don't need a trading partner.

I think anyone following Pats drafts knows they often rate players drastically differently from the consensus. They can catch unexpected droppers, get their favorites and be in position to trade with just about anyone.

Add two #3's and the potential is crazy for getting much more value out of this draft than individual numbers suggest. Plus they can insure a player in one and pick up a faller 1st rounder with KC's #2.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

You are simply overvaluing Vrabel. He is 34 years old! He was quite a bit slower this past year and didn't make nearly the number of plays that we saw from him the 3-4 years prior to that. Fact is, the guy is likely in a steep decline. Now KC needs veteran leadership so they are willing to take on a guy who might only have one or two decent years left in him, but for most teams that isn't worth much. Like I said, if the Pats had traded Vrabel alone they probably would've gotten a 6th rounder for him.

As for Cassel, the Pats don't want to be stuck holding the bag on that one. My guess is that they felt out the other teams that might be interested, didn't think there was a huge market for him, and decided to move him at the first reasonable chance. That is a better strategy than holding on to a $14.6 million back-up, don't you agree?

3-4 years ago? The guy had the best season of his career in 2007! He likely has at least two more very good seasons in him. You are undervaluing (if that is a word) him.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

To anybody who is upset, you deserve the misery.

Just shutup and watch what happens next. FLEXIBILITY.

Care to enlighten us oh wise one?
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

This is key... people here forget we have players like Wilfork to tie up. The trade was ok. Nothing spectacular but necessary.

I really don't see why in the world we would tie up Wilfork this year when we don't even know if next year is uncapped.

If next year is uncapped, then Wilfork will make a lot of money, and the Patriots will give it to him without hurting our cap. We have a great opportunity next year to sign our own FAs, and the beauty of it is that playoff teams will NOT be able to go after our FAs so easily. The only hitch is that we might lose Seymour if we don't come to an agreement quickly with Wilfork, thereby forcing us to franchise Wilfork.

I'm not keen on signing these guys THIS year. If there's no cap next year, we're best off not signing anyone this year.
 
Re: Peter King reporting 09 2nd rounder from Chiefs

This trade definitely improves the Patriots.

We gain a late first round caliber player (its a deep draft) for four years at a reasonable cost.

We lose one year of service from a quality backup QB, who hopefully would never have seen the field.

We lose one year of service from an aging LB whose on-field value wasn't worth his cap number, and whose off-field value is better appreciated elsewhere.

We get rid of $17M+ in cap space for 2009 (going into a potentially uncapped year in which many key starters will be free agents, so we need that money if we want to keep them from testing the waters).

I am breathing a sigh of relief that we didn't get stuck carrying Cassel.


Could we have gotten more from elsewhere? Maybe. I expect to see media reports to that effect. To the extent that executives in Detroit or TB had plans to sit back and wait for the Cassel market to soften, it is safe that they won't repeat that mistake in the future. But it is uncertain that such a deal would have been consummated. If it was, it would have come too late for the Patriots to consider being active in free agency.


I also think it is possible for BB and Pioli to negotiate deals that include future good will for one side or the other. Pioli couldn't afford to be seen as giving BB a good deal. BB has no such problem on his end. BB also starts off owing Pioli some good will for not taking the deal with Seattle.


People who wanted the #3 for Cassel and Vrabel are being greedy. Yes, we occasionally get insane deals like the Moss deal. But that is a very unusual thing; something to be celebrated, not expected.


As far as the Matt Schaub deal goes: that was an insane deal favoring Atlanta, and everybody knew it at the time the deal occurred. It is a poor benchmark to use in judging the Cassel deal.

Excellent post. I simply don't understand all the complaining. This is FANTASTIC news! :D:D
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

On those who think we were hosed, please get back to me in August, or better yet in Febraury.

Let us then compare the 2009 and future value to the patriots of

1) Cassel and Vrabel

2) #34 and $17M of cap room

I think that you will find that we did just fine.

The money would have come off our books no matter who we traded Cassel to and for no matter for what. My only hope is that BB has a grand plan in free agency and that is why he needed the money and the pick so soon. The Pats have notoriously waited till draft day to make trades, and this year they waited one day. I am hoping, fingers crossed, that the Pats make a big signing or trade soon otherwise Pioli simply robbed the house on his way out!!!
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

BB GOT ******* scammed by SCOTT PIOLI!!!! This is bull**** I don't care what you say! WE COULDVE CALLED THE ******* LIONS AND ASKED, "VRABEL AND CASSEL for 20?" THEY WOULDVE BIT SO BAD!!!


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

3-4 years ago? The guy had the best season of his career in 2007! He likely has at least two more very good seasons in him. You are undervaluing (if that is a word) him.

You misread me--I said "the 3-4 years prior to that", as in, he was a beast for us from 2005-2007 and then dropped off precipitously last year. You need to accept that the market just isn't there for a 34 year old LB coming off his worst season since he became a starter.
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

Not a huge fan of this trade, but I guess it shows that the market for Cassel really wasn't there. If we extend Wilfork this offseason using some of the money we saved, I'll be a bigger fan of the deal.

That's the heart of the matter. And if any GM knew the market for Cassel, it would be Pioli. The Vikings and Bucs are going to either look like idiots or geniuses by the end of 09. I can only imagine the lynch mob in Minnny if the Vikes go 7-9 with Sage and the Chiefs go 10-6 with Cassel.
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

Hi Guys

Im shocked at how little we got.I truly thought this pick +Comp pick next year on how many wins/making playoffs etc. was the likely trade.

I know it sounds bad but we are missing Scott P already as he has got a great deal for KC here.

Ben
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

You are simply overvaluing Vrabel. He is 34 years old! He was quite a bit slower this past year and didn't make nearly the number of plays that we saw from him the 3-4 years prior to that. Fact is, the guy is likely in a steep decline. Now KC needs veteran leadership so they are willing to take on a guy who might only have one or two decent years left in him, but for most teams that isn't worth much. Like I said, if the Pats had traded Vrabel alone they probably would've gotten a 6th rounder for him.

As for Cassel, the Pats don't want to be stuck holding the bag on that one. My guess is that they felt out the other teams that might be interested, didn't think there was a huge market for him, and decided to move him at the first reasonable chance. That is a better strategy than holding on to a $14.6 million back-up, don't you agree?

Still, I do wish they had gotten a 2010 conditional pick thrown in...

Yeah, I keep hearing this about Vrabels' age and perceived decline in performance and that he is really only worth a 4th or 5th.
Well if that's the case, I say he has more value staying with the team.:mad:
BB may be banking on signing Peppers so I have mixed emotions on this until all is done.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Care to enlighten us oh wise one?

Yes.

1 1st, 3 2nds, 2 3rds in a draft that seems to be loaded between picks 20-60.
$21 million in cap space.
 
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Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

Ray Lewis...welcome to Foxboro...and hopefully a solid CB
 
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