Belichick is a scouting genius!

bucky · Sep 4, 2009

AzPatsFan said:
He has now found what appear to be three NFL QBs. For the grand total of a 6th, 7th round and now an UDFA, no pick at all. Meanwhile other teams bust consistently on First Round "Can't Miss", rookie phenoms, who nevertheless... do.

I agree that Hoyer is a keeper. But let's not forget about O'Connell, Kinsbugry, and Rohan Davey - all were drafted by BB. Plus he's brought in several UDFA QBs who never panned out. So I'm not sure he's as much of a genius as you claim. And of course having Bledsoe and then Brady makes it easy to not spend 1st and 2nd round picks on QBs.

nashvillepatsfan · Sep 4, 2009

bucky said:
I agree that Hoyer is a keeper. But let's not forget about O'Connell, Kinsbugry, and Rohan Davey - all were drafted by BB. Plus he's brought in several UDFA QBs who never panned out. So I'm not sure he's as much of a genius as you claim. And of course having Bledsoe and then Brady makes it easy to not spend 1st and 2nd round picks on QBs.

KOC is one thing, but NObody thought much of Rohan. lol.

cubedoggy · Sep 4, 2009

billdog3484 said:
have we forgotten about Kevin O'Connell already

Not at all. I believe he's right behind Brooks Bollinger on the Lions' depth chart.

unoriginal · Sep 4, 2009

MoLewisrocks said:
This kid won't make the PS. I almost think BB left him in all game to send a big FU to all the KOC hysterics...

My take on it is that O'Connell was cut early to give Hoyer and Walter substantially more practice time, i.e. that BB planned early last week that Hoyer, not O'Connell was going to play Week 4.

denverpatsfan · Sep 4, 2009

If BB could draft well the Pats would have another 2 championships. Drafting is his only shortcoming. The Steelers make him look foolish EVERY season.

BradyFTW! · Sep 4, 2009

Patriot_in_NY said:
No way Hoyer makes the practice sqaud after tonight. Yeah, it's game 4, but he did face starters in this game. Can't hide him now. I suspect he'll be on the Patriots. If we go for a legit #2 in a trade, then Walter will go first. Walter is a JAG, Hoyer has a huge upside to him, no sense dumping him. He needs time and he'll likely develop well. Looked great tonight. Very comfortable for a rook.

QBs with huge upside usually get drafted. Guys like Brady (and even he got drafted) are once-in-a-generation finds. I agree that Hoyer showcased some nice skills tonight, and may develop into a good NFL QB, but 'huge upside' is stretching it.

ctpatsfan77 · Sep 4, 2009

denverpatsfan said:
If BB could draft well the Pats would have another 2 championships. Drafting is his only shortcoming. The Steelers make him look foolish EVERY season.

Ummm, I don't think drafting was the issue in either of those years. . . .

BradyFTW! · Sep 4, 2009

denverpatsfan said:
If BB could draft well the Pats would have another 2 championships. Drafting is his only shortcoming. The Steelers make him look foolish EVERY season.

Drafting is his shortcoming? For evidence that you're insane, I'd point to Mayo, Wilhite, Meriweather, Slater, LeKevin Smith, Gostkowski, Mankins, Kaczur, Hobbs, Sanders, Wright.... you know what, screw it. I only made it back to 200 and I've already proven my point. If you think that drafting is Belichick's weakness, feel free to check out the other 31 teams' track records sometime. Pats are easily one of the 5 best drafting teams in the NFL.

nashvillepatsfan · Sep 4, 2009

BradyFTW! said:
Drafting is his shortcoming? For evidence that you're insane, I'd point to Mayo, Wilhite, Meriweather, Slater, LeKevin Smith, Gostkowski, Mankins, Kaczur, Hobbs, Sanders, Wright.... you know what, screw it. I only made it back to 200 and I've already proven my point. If you think that drafting is Belichick's weakness, feel free to check out the other 31 teams' track records sometime. Pats are easily one of the 5 best drafting teams in the NFL.

I think the guy from denver was just joking around. I mean c'mon, no one is that dumb

Patriot_in_NY · Sep 4, 2009

BradyFTW! said:
QBs with huge upside usually get drafted. Guys like Brady (and even he got drafted) are once-in-a-generation finds. I agree that Hoyer showcased some nice skills tonight, and may develop into a good NFL QB, but 'huge upside' is stretching it.

BS, Huge upside................... as in displays poise and comfort in his first "game" (so to speak), he is a Rook (very young) and is cerebral and is learning in a system that appears to suit him. That makes his upside on this team IMO, much greater than Walter, who is really a JAG (until he shows us otherwise), with some NFL exp. Hoyer will be a tough cut. It's more then about this year and Hoyer won't survive waivers.

If you don't think his upside is greater then fine, but don't ignore the fact that it's there. I think in 2-3 years, he could be a really effective QB in the right system.

Be realistic too, I never compaired him to Brady either, and it's unfair to say I did. There are some intangibles and he seems to have shown "some" of them. They need exploiting and work, but is certainly there.

fair catch fryar · Sep 4, 2009

AzPatsFan said:
Once again Bill Belichick has demonstrated that he is a draft guru, "par excellance". He picked up a forgotten and overlooked QB who had a mediocre college career,while playing on a poor team, and found the spark of a NFL caliber QB.

He has now found what appear to be three NFL QBs. For the grand total of a 6th, 7th round and now an UDFA, no pick at all. Meanwhile other teams bust consistently on First Round "Can't Miss", rookie phenoms, who nevertheless... do.

Brian Hoyer goes 18 for 25, and 242 yards, 1 TD and 0 INTs in his FIRST start. I'm glad to see him succeed, but with the cutting of Kevin O'Connell, a third round pick last week, that caused a stir throughout the league, and this performance, I fear it will be impossible to hide Brian Hoyer on the Practice Squad now. What a pleasant problem to have.

I was very impressed with Brian Hoyers POISE and composure when he played in the tail end of th Bengals game. He didn't produce gaudy stats; but he piloted and led the team from the moment he set foot on the field, in a totally unflappable way, a long time veteran would. Now this performance!

Do you think the perennial Belichick bashers like the capt and company will stop yelling about a wasted draft pick and or giving up on a guy too soon, for KOC? Probably not. But the second guessing by everyone else surely will.

Comments?

He looked good and I hope he can be a solid back-up for the team, ..........BUT I couldn't stop thinking about former pre-season AllPro from a few years back named Rohan Davey. Only time will tell.

MoLewisrocks · Sep 4, 2009

fair catch fryar said:
He looked good and I hope he can be a solid back-up for the team, ..........BUT I couldn't stop thinking about former pre-season AllPro from a few years back named Rohan Davey. Only time will tell.

Not sure what pre season you watched where Rohan was EVER an all pro. NFLE maybe, but it was clear to anyone that Rohan could never run this offense. They had to have a Rohan package for him to remotely accomplish anything. That's why Cassel knocked him off the roster.

patchick · Sep 4, 2009

AzPatsFan said:
Once again Bill Belichick has demonstrated that he is a draft guru, "par excellance". He picked up a forgotten and overlooked QB who had a mediocre college career,while playing on a poor team

Do you think you might be rewriting history a bit? Hoyer wasn't an obscure prospect at all. He was a 2-year starter in the Big 10, a combine invitee, and was widely pegged as a 5th-6th round draft pick. When he surprisingly went undrafted, by his own description he got offers from a ton of teams. He chose the Patriots because he has good taste.

MoLewisrocks · Sep 4, 2009

patchick said:
Do you think you might be rewriting history a bit? Hoyer wasn't an obscure prospect at all. He was a 2-year starter in the Big 10, a combine invitee, and was widely pegged as a 5th-6th round draft pick. When he surprisingly went undrafted, by his own description he got offers from a ton of teams. He chose the Patriots because he has good taste.

While AZ is a little over the top (for a reason I believe) Hoyer certainly looked all of forgotten and overlooked on draft day where one of the networks followed him via home cam... And I agree, kid has taste, in addition to tools and a brain.

Rob0729 · Sep 4, 2009

MoLewisrocks said:
His stats have nothing to do with deer in the headlights. Cassel was poised and disciplined even as those around him were playing like crap. IN THE PRESEASON. Even Bill recalled that a few weeks ago. There was a reason he remained the undisputed (except by kneejerk fans and media) #2 throughout the preseason. Some of us saw that while many more did not. Gutierrez and O'Connell found ways to move the chains against 3rd and 4th stringers. In O'Connell's case that was fine, he was a rookie working with a limited play book. Gutierrez on the other hand moved the chains so well he got cut. Because he wasn't running the offense, he was pulling plays out of his ass to impress people who could care less about winning pre season games... KOC went backwards in his second season and that is unacceptable. Situational football matters to BB. O'Connell couldn't even take a damn knee right in year 2. Maybe getting the job by default went to his head, or maybe there was never much going on in there to begin with. He had the physical tools. Lacked the temperment and intangibles to make the most of them.

BB said tonight he left Hoyer in because he felt he had earned the right to bring the team back. And he did. For a rookie that's quite a testament even in a pre season game. None of them come out of the gate fully developed and polished. The ones with a future continue to progress and they don't make the same mistakes over and over because they learn from them and get better. Cassel got better and more consistent as a prospect from season to season and as a starter from game to game. Same as that Brady guy. Judging by what Hoyer did two weeks ago and then tonight, he's that kind of upside prospect.

Ok, I will conceed deer in the headlight was too strong of a statement, but he played like crap other than one game last preseason.

Again, Hoyer had a good night last night and deserved to finish the game, but let put it in perspective that it was only one game. Personally I thought last night was a battle to win the number 3 spot behind Brady and most likely AJ Feeley. Hoyer won that spot from Walter who I expect will be cut soon. Hoyer might turn into an excellent player, but let's not go overboard based on one game.

Like Bill Parcells said, "Let's not put him in Canton just yet" (granted the ironic thing it was about a player who is going to Canton,). It was one good game and we have no idea how much of it was him or the competition.

As for Cassel, Cassel did regress after a strong start. He went almost two complete preseasons and a regular season without a TD. Belichick felt strongly enough about his talent to keep him. We have no idea how Hoyer will progress or if he will progress at all.

PatsfanGlo · Sep 4, 2009

One thing that did impress me about him was how he handled pressure and stress. He got his butt handed to him by Giants 1st team and 2nd team. I mean I almost felt sorry for the guy while watching but he kept his poise and evetually got into rythm. That's one thing I didn't see when watching KOC. While his arm strength was bit underwhelming and he almost got Greg Lewis killed, I think he can be serviceable back up. Isn't that what you want from back up QB? Poised, not making stupid mistakes? He doesn't have to be world beater, just adequate player.

patchick · Sep 4, 2009

MoLewisrocks said:
While AZ is a little over the top (for a reason I believe) Hoyer certainly looked all of forgotten and overlooked on draft day where one of the networks followed him via home cam... And I agree, kid has taste, in addition to tools and a brain.

Ouch, didn't know about that!

I like Hoyer a lot, he looks like a potential find, I just think it's a stretch to call it "scouting genius" when you're one of many teams to make an offer to the top-rated undrafted QB. Compare to, say, St. Louis spending a 6th on the far less heralded QB Keith Null out of mighty West Texas A&M. If a gamble like that (or a Matt Cassel) pans out, that's a real scouting coup.

captain stone · Sep 4, 2009

AzPatsFan said:
Do you think the perennial Belichick bashers like the capt and company will stop yelling about a wasted draft pick and or giving up on a guy too soon, for KOC? Probably not. But the second guessing by everyone else surely will.

Sorry, I'm afraid not.

A bad #94 pick is still a bad #94 pick; and yes, Bill should have kept KOC for one more game.

Was signing Hoyer as a UDFA a smart, aggressive move? Absolutely, but let's not fit him a bust for Canton just yet. The pressure of a pre-season game is different than the pressure of a regular-season game.

BradyFTW! · Sep 4, 2009

captain stone said:
Sorry, I'm afraid not.

A bad #94 pick is still a bad #94 pick; and yes, Bill should have kept KOC for one more game.

Was signing Hoyer as a UDFA a smart, aggressive move? Absolutely, but let's not fit him a bust for Canton just yet. The pressure of a pre-season game is different than the pressure of a regular-season game.

Now we just have to get you to acknowledge that every team in the routinely shanks it on third round picks, and we'll be most of the way there...

Mr. Pollard · Sep 4, 2009

Missing CB Sean Smith 4 times in round 2, not exactly genius.

Belichick is a scouting genius!

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