Belichick is a scouting genius!

AzPatsFan · Sep 5, 2009

patchick said:
Do you think you might be rewriting history a bit? Hoyer wasn't an obscure prospect at all. He was a 2-year starter in the Big 10, a combine invitee, and was widely pegged as a 5th-6th round draft pick. When he surprisingly went undrafted, by his own description he got offers from a ton of teams. He chose the Patriots because he has good taste.

Patchick,

You are quite correct. I stand corrected. Brian Hoyer's collegiate credentials are fine, but the Big Ten is a Two Team league and Michigan State isn't one of them, except once a generation, or so. That is a big reason he slid.

But draft scouts never can measure anything about a QB prospect than the triangle numbers and whether he has a rocket arm. Alli of which count for barely 10% of what makes a good QB.Hoyer received A- or B+ grade on those four criteria and wasn't a favorite due to his college rising in the rankings.

Someone said he isn't more like rookie Tom Brady at 6-4 225, to who I compared him, but is more like Chad Pennington, 6-2, 220, but from a bigger school, and with a better arm, but the same "thinking man's approach" to the game. I heartily concur.

Since Penny has produced several playoff season that is not bad company to be in. Do you ever wonder what Penny could do with a better arm, like Hoyer possesses? :idea2:

DW Toys · Sep 5, 2009

olschool said:
Now that Walter is gone, it's Brady, Hoyer and ? Verrry interesting.
AJ Feeley will be cut, is BB feelin' it ?

Speaking of interesting cousins, this was an April 24th article on Hoyer.
DW Toys

Draft analyst gives Hoyer high marks
McShay ranks ex-Spartan No. 4 QB in NFL draft

Joe Rexrode • [email protected] • April 24, 2009

Brian Hoyer was on the ESPN campus in Bristol, Conn., last week to appear on a few of the network's shows, and he saw NFL draft analyst Todd McShay in the lunch room.

Hoyer felt compelled to thank McShay, who has spent some time over the past few weeks heaping praise on Hoyer and his abilities.

McShay's response: "You earned it. It's there."

"There" is the game film. McShay - who called Hoyer "a bad quarterback" on a college football show during the season - decided to go back and watch every Michigan State 2008 offensive snap.

And he did that because Hoyer's passing prowess surprised McShay and others who attended the East-West Shrine Game in January in Houston. After studying hours of footage, McShay determined that MSU receivers dropped 73 of Hoyer's passes last season, and that Hoyer could be one of the steals of the draft.

"I think (the Houston weekend) probably made a lot of people go back and look at the film," Hoyer said. "People have been able to see that I have the talent to produce at this level."

Hoyer is one of seven departing Spartans with a chance of being picked this weekend in the NFL draft, which starts with the first two rounds Saturday, followed by rounds 3-7 on Sunday. He and running back Javon Ringer appear to have the best chance and likely will be the first two picked.

It may take awhile - McShay has both going in the fifth round - but both could end up being bargains. Ringer was considered a first- or second-round possibility before another knee surgery hindered his showing at the scouting combine in Indianapolis.

Draft analyst Jerry Jones expects Ringer to go in the third or fourth round, based on his conversations with NFL personnel people. He has Hoyer going in the sixth round.

"After the first three quarterbacks (Matt Stafford, Marc Sanchez and Josh Freeman), the next group could be anybody, at any time," Jones said.

McShay rates Hoyer as the best senior quarterback and No. 4 overall, after the aforementioned three who are all expected to go in the first round. He has compared Hoyer with Tom Brady and Matt Hasselbeck, former sixth-round picks who went on to be come Pro Bowl starters.

This despite the fact that Hoyer completed just 51 percent of his passes as a senior, with nine touchdowns and nine interceptions.

"When people are comparing quarterbacks and looking at stats, they're gonna look at mine and keep on going," said Hoyer, who has worked out individually for the New England Patriots and Cleveland Browns.

But McShay and - presumably - NFL general managers have looked past the numbers.

AzPatsFan · Sep 5, 2009

September 4th, 2009: Andrew Walter and four others cut...

September 3, 2009: 19 for 25, 237 yards 1 TD, 0 INTs 38-27.

A Star is Born!

jsull87 · Sep 5, 2009

i don't know about scouting genius when you look as certain players like watson maroney o'connel and jackson. I am not saying he is bad i am just saying it is easy to look at the good and go omg hes a genius. i am still hurting because i wanted the pats to pick up rey maualuga in the 2nd

Deus Irae · Sep 5, 2009

jsull87 said:
i don't know about scouting genius when you look as certain players like watson maroney o'connel and jackson. I am not saying he is bad i am just saying it is easy to look at the good and go omg hes a genius. i am still hurting because i wanted the pats to pick up rey maualuga in the 2nd

Genius does not mean infallible.

cubedoggy · Sep 5, 2009

denverpatsfan said:
If BB could draft well the Pats would have another 2 championships. Drafting is his only shortcoming. The Steelers make him look foolish EVERY season.

Bruce Davis on Line 1 for you, sir.

AzPatsFan · Sep 5, 2009

cubedoggy said:
Bruce Davis on Line 1 for you, sir.

Touche` !!

AzPatsFan · Sep 5, 2009

DW Toys said:
Speaking of interesting cousins, this was an April 24th article on Hoyer.
DW Toys

Draft analyst gives Hoyer high marks
McShay ranks ex-Spartan No. 4 QB in NFL draft

Joe Rexrode • [email protected] • April 24, 2009

Brian Hoyer was on the ESPN campus in Bristol, Conn., last week to appear on a few of the network's shows, and he saw NFL draft analyst Todd McShay in the lunch room.

Hoyer felt compelled to thank McShay, who has spent some time over the past few weeks heaping praise on Hoyer and his abilities.

McShay's response: "You earned it. It's there."

"There" is the game film. McShay - who called Hoyer "a bad quarterback" on a college football show during the season - decided to go back and watch every Michigan State 2008 offensive snap.

And he did that because Hoyer's passing prowess surprised McShay and others who attended the East-West Shrine Game in January in Houston. After studying hours of footage, McShay determined that MSU receivers dropped 73 of Hoyer's passes last season, and that Hoyer could be one of the steals of the draft.

"I think (the Houston weekend) probably made a lot of people go back and look at the film," Hoyer said. "People have been able to see that I have the talent to produce at this level."

Hoyer is one of seven departing Spartans with a chance of being picked this weekend in the NFL draft, which starts with the first two rounds Saturday, followed by rounds 3-7 on Sunday. He and running back Javon Ringer appear to have the best chance and likely will be the first two picked.

It may take awhile - McShay has both going in the fifth round - but both could end up being bargains. Ringer was considered a first- or second-round possibility before another knee surgery hindered his showing at the scouting combine in Indianapolis.

Draft analyst Jerry Jones expects Ringer to go in the third or fourth round, based on his conversations with NFL personnel people. He has Hoyer going in the sixth round.

"After the first three quarterbacks (Matt Stafford, Marc Sanchez and Josh Freeman), the next group could be anybody, at any time," Jones said.

McShay rates Hoyer as the best senior quarterback and No. 4 overall, after the aforementioned three who are all expected to go in the first round. He has compared Hoyer with Tom Brady and Matt Hasselbeck, former sixth-round picks who went on to be come Pro Bowl starters.

This despite the fact that Hoyer completed just 51 percent of his passes as a senior, with nine touchdowns and nine interceptions.

"When people are comparing quarterbacks and looking at stats, they're gonna look at mine and keep on going," said Hoyer, who has worked out individually for the New England Patriots and Cleveland Browns.

But McShay and - presumably - NFL general managers have looked past the numbers.

I remember reading Mcshay's a evaluation of Hoyer and was elated when the Pats signed him as an UDFA. I thought we had found another PS squad UDFA, to add to BB's annual collection of at least one UDFA per year. I also recall a coupel of other scouting reports that both downgraded him but both also mentioned his POISE, and that set my antennas twitching.

It turns out to be MUCH more, he's vaulting onto the Team as a rookie.

AzPatsFan · Sep 5, 2009

DaBruinz said:
I think that you forgetting about the 4th round pick spent on Davey and the 3rd round pick spent on O'Connell doesn't do your argument justice..

I think that its also to be crowning Hoyer the next Cassel.

Yes, for the cost of one, day-one pick BB has found three NFL QBs, I stand corrected. However, Andrew Walters cut, confirms that it is NOT "WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY to early" to sing Brian Hoyer's arrival in the big leagues.

BradyFTW! · Sep 5, 2009

AzPatsFan said:
Yes, for the cost of one, day-one pick BB has found three NFL QBs, I stand corrected. However, Andrew Walters cut, confirms that it is NOT "WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY to early" to sing Brian Hoyer's arrival in the big leagues.

What do Brian Hoyer, Charlie Whitehurst, Billy Volek, Tavaris Jackson, Rudy Carpenter, Rex Grossman, Mike Teel, Jeff Rowe, Joey Harrington, Vince Young, Patrick Ramsey, Richard Bartel, Brett Basanez, Mike Reilly, John Beck, JT O'Sullivan, David Carr, and Erik Ainge all have in common? They all had passer ratings over 100 this week. Hell, Grossman and Basanez both almost broke 140. Either they're all awesome QBs or you can't tell much of anything from the last preseason game.

I liked what I saw last night from Hoyer- he had good presence, stood in against the rush, didn't make many dumb mistakes with the ball even when his teammates were basically collapsing around him. I think that he has the potential to develop into a really good NFL quarterback, but unless he's the second coming of Tom Brady (and even if he is) it's going to take a while, and it's far from a sure thing no matter what. Seriously, I dunno wtf it's going to take for everyone to just calm down and realize that crowning anyone for their performances in this game makes no sense on any level. Most of the guys that were on the field last night will be lucky to make a USFL roster, so the few that are going to stick around even as fringe players had better play awfully well against them.

PatsFan37 · Sep 5, 2009

BradyFTW! said:
What do Brian Hoyer, Charlie Whitehurst, Billy Volek, Tavaris Jackson, Rudy Carpenter, Rex Grossman, Mike Teel, Jeff Rowe, Joey Harrington, Vince Young, Patrick Ramsey, Richard Bartel, Brett Basanez, Mike Reilly, John Beck, JT O'Sullivan, David Carr, and Erik Ainge all have in common? They all had passer ratings over 100 this week. Hell, Grossman and Basanez both almost broke 140. Either they're all awesome QBs or you can't tell much of anything from the last preseason game.

Thank you. As if I didn't need any other clues, last year convinced me that neither fans nor commentators have any insight into what coaches think of players and that preseason games are just one factor among many.

PatsFanSince74 · Sep 5, 2009

AzPatsFan said:
Once again Bill Belichick has demonstrated that he is a draft guru, "par excellance". He picked up a forgotten and overlooked QB who had a mediocre college career,while playing on a poor team, and found the spark of a NFL caliber QB.

He has now found what appear to be three NFL QBs. For the grand total of a 6th, 7th round and now an UDFA, no pick at all. Meanwhile other teams bust consistently on First Round "Can't Miss", rookie phenoms, who nevertheless... do.

Brian Hoyer goes 18 for 25, and 242 yards, 1 TD and 0 INTs in his FIRST start. I'm glad to see him succeed, but with the cutting of Kevin O'Connell, a third round pick last week, that caused a stir throughout the league, and this performance, I fear it will be impossible to hide Brian Hoyer on the Practice Squad now. What a pleasant problem to have.

I was very impressed with Brian Hoyers POISE and composure when he played in the tail end of th Bengals game. He didn't produce gaudy stats; but he piloted and led the team from the moment he set foot on the field, in a totally unflappable way, a long time veteran would. Now this performance!

Do you think the perennial Belichick bashers like the capt and company will stop yelling about a wasted draft pick and or giving up on a guy too soon, for KOC? Probably not. But the second guessing by everyone else surely will.

Comments?

I agree that BB is a genius, but, on this particular topic, preseason is preseason. a lot of folks out here buried Matt because of his preseason performance last year, and we know how that turned out. so, making judgments on the basis of these games is very risky at best. i'm not on the Hoyer bandwagon yet, but I really like the guy so far.

But now they are going to have to give something up to get a ready-for-prime-time backup for TB. my money, for what it's worth, is on a trade with Philly for AJ; probably have to give up Watson and a pick. he's only 32 and could be a valuable part of the team for a while.

PatsFanSince74 · Sep 5, 2009

Rob0729 said:
We have seen Hoyer play one game in the fourth game. I think Belichick threw Hoyer in there to determine whether he needs to desperately scramble to find another veteran QB for a back up.

People said Gutz wouldn't make the practice squad last year and he was a street free agent the first week of the season. Did you see how well some other scrub QBs did tonight? John Beck had 232 yards, 2 TDs, and no INTs. Erik Ainge had 160 yards, 2 TDs, and no INTs. Great performance in the last game doesn't mean much of anything.

Everyone needs to calm down a bit.

basically agree w you. tho i think he had hoyer in for the whole game because he didn't want to risk injury to Tommy, who, at the least, is nursing a "sore shoulder." also, he must have seen or learned "something" about walter that he didn't like during his brief time in camp, otherwise why release him after not playing him? gasper says today that he was "peeved" after the game and showed it to the media, which seldom happens in a BB locker room. the talk radio CW had been that BB held him out so he wouldn't get injured and could be traded; scratch that theory.

PatsFan37 · Sep 5, 2009

Maybe playing Hoyer 4 qtrs had nothing to do with Walter, except that BB knew he wasn't keeping Walter.

Considering how precious preseason snaps are to a budding QB, he gave them to a guy he's keeping instead of giving them to a guy he's cutting. Nothing to do with injury risk or showcasing or trading or anything like that.

And that's why Walter was pissed. He signs with a team in the hope of getting snaps so he has a chance to get an NFL paycheck instead of a UPS paycheck. Whether it's for the Patriots or not. He didn't get the chance and now look at all the 4th preseason game heroes who are ahead of him.

DW Toys · Sep 5, 2009

PatsFan37 said:
Maybe playing Hoyer 4 qtrs had nothing to do with Walter, except that BB knew he wasn't keeping Walter.

Considering how precious preseason snaps are to a budding QB, he gave them to a guy he's keeping instead of giving them to a guy he's cutting. Nothing to do with injury risk or showcasing or trading or anything like that.

And that's why Walter was pissed. He signs with a team in the hope of getting snaps so he has a chance to get an NFL paycheck instead of a UPS paycheck. Whether it's for the Patriots or not. He didn't get the chance and now look at all the 4th preseason game heroes who are ahead of him.

Good point.
DW Toys

DW Toys · Sep 5, 2009

Deus Irae said:
Genius does not mean infallible.

Good post.
It's like baseball .333 or higher is a top hitter. If you had seven choices make the team every year you would have to hope for serious roster expansion.

I had opinions and I thought he (scouts) missed on Sean Smith too, and Mayauluga. I thought he missed on Nick Reed from Oregon. I wasn't a Barwin "binkymeister" but he appears to be the real deal, so that was a miss asperhaps time will tell. Then again he pulls out a Volmer who has been as good as any of the high profile first round OT draftees. I also think Butler was underdrafted so good for the Pats draft war room.

In my opinion, Chung will have an easier learning curve than Merriweather, but we know his slot cover technique is very weak right now (SS?-the BB school of more than one position to learn, one would guess). He, as in all rookies, are a work in progress.

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