Midseason Pats Mock

mayoclinic said:

I have a hard time thinking of 6'8" 315# Sebastian Vollmer as a "lighter, quicker" lineman. Ditto 6'7" 310# Mark Levoir. And while Mankins isn't a "road grader" he's pretty solid.

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I'm not talking about height - it's weight that's key. BB has just never gone for the 6'2 330 lbs power OL. And yes, at 6'8 and 6'7 respectively, both Volmer and LeVoir are fairly lean for OL. Light, Mankins and Kaczur all go around 6'4 300. Koppen is about 6'2 290, similar to Wendell, Connolly, Orhnberger, Yates. I just don't see it.

I always enjoy reading what Mayoclinic, Ochmed and everyone else say about upcoming prospects but have never really posted in the Draft forum because I don't have a clue about College Football. But I have recently got ESPN so I get to watch about 3 college games a week so hopefully will become involved in draft discussions in the near future.

As for the mock, I can't argue with the choices. I've been able to watch 2 Alabama games and already I am impressed with Mclain. I know that ILB isn't our greatest need but if Mclain slips like Maulauga then he could be too good to pass up. Guyton is a good rotational player but I wouldn't call him a playmaker yet and we don't know what Mckenzie is capable of but I like the idea of having two playmakers in Mayo and Mclain in the middle of the Defense.

I don't know a lot about Pierre-Paul but he sounds llike he could turn into an elite pass rusher over the years and someone who BB would like (size, speed
etc.) Also, do USF play in a green uniform? Because if they do, then I think I might have watched him play but I could be confusing him for someone else.

The pick I like most in your mock is Iupati. Not that I know anything about him, but I like the idea of building the trenches, getting the power running game going and giving Brady more time to find Moss (and Tate hopefully) downfield. My only question on this pick, is he quick enough for screens being that heavy?

Again, I would like BB to keep building in the trenches so the next pick is ideal in Marsh. I don't think that Jarvis Green is ideal to fit as a 3-4 DE full-time and he could be gone next year anyway so another DE wouldn't hurt. I will be keeping a close eye on Marsh this week against Georgia (if he's playing).

Also, I think a RB will be necessary next year as 3 of our running backs are over 30 years old and RB is the position that takes the most punishment so I can't argue with the Ryan Matthews pick. Could you tell me a little more about Matthews (Can he take it to the house or is he more a solid North/South runner?)

This week I will get to see Gabe Carimi against Purdue so I will be watching him closely. He has the length which could be useful for controlling his block so could be good depth if Light goes.

I do hope we draft a late WR with upside. Preferably a blazing fast WR and trying to develop his catching and route-running. It would be nice if he added depth as a returner as well and other Special Teams.

In the 6th round, it could be anything but hopefully we drafty someone who dropped a lot like Mike Mickens CB last year or somebody along them lines. I think Hanson has done a decent job, although inconsistent at times.

On a side note, could all the people who know what they're talking about in College Football tell me which players to look out for. I will be able to watch the following games this week:

- Purdue vs. Wisconsin
- Indiana vs. Iowa
- Florida vs. Georgia

Like I said, I look forward to becoming more involved in future draft discussions...

kas said:

I'm not talking about height - it's weight that's key. BB has just never gone for the 6'2 330 lbs power OL. And yes, at 6'8 and 6'7 respectively, both Volmer and LeVoir are fairly lean for OL. Light, Mankins and Kaczur all go around 6'4 300. Koppen is about 6'2 290, similar to Wendell, Connolly, Orhnberger, Yates. I just don't see it.

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I personally don't think that height and weight are as important as playing style. Vollmer and Mankins are not "finesse" linemen - they can overpower people as well as get by on technique.

Just because someone is 320#+ doesn't make them a "road grader". Ryan Clady is 6'6" 325# but moves beautifully. And coming from little Boise St. didn't stop him from becoming one of the elite LTs in the game.

mayoclinic said:

I personally don't think that height and weight are as important as playing style. Vollmer and Mankins are not "finesse" linemen - they can overpower people as well as get by on technique.

Just because someone is 320#+ doesn't make them a "road grader". Ryan Clady is 6'6" 325# but moves beautifully. And coming from little Boise St. didn't stop him from becoming one of the elite LTs in the game.

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I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong. All I'm saying is that BB's draft patterns suggest that Iaputi will be wearing another team's jersey next year.

And BTW, I don't think I ever called Mankins finesse. Just about every OL on our team is known for their nasty demeanor on the field.

I like this thread. I don't expect him to be available late in the first round due to the number of teams running the 3-4, but right now I think Suh is the guy. Which means he'll be a Brown. Poor fella.

I'll throw two other names out there for the late first, early second range. Vince Oghobaase DE Duke, whom I think is criminally underrated, and Arrellious Benn WR Illinois, whom I think is better than any WR to come out since Calvin Johnson.

I've mentioned it before, but if the Boise St. incident causes LaGarrette Blount to fall to the late third round, I think he'd be a great value.

dryheat44 said:

I like this thread. I don't expect him to be available late in the first round due to the number of teams running the 3-4, but right now I think Suh is the guy. Which means he'll be a Brown. Poor fella.

I'll throw two other names out there for the late first, early second range. Vince Oghobaase DE Duke, whom I think is criminally underrated, and Arrellious Benn WR Illinois, whom I think is better than any WR to come out since Calvin Johnson.

I've mentioned it before, but if the Boise St. incident causes LaGarrette Blount to fall to the late third round, I think he'd be a great value.

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Good point about LaGarrette Blount, who is flying under everyone's radar right now. Kind of a Shonn Greene kind of guy.

There's no doubt Suh is the real deal. I had him on my short list of players to take at 23 last year if he had declared early, but he decided to go back to school and now we won't get near him. He's like Aaron Curry was last year.

dryheat44 said:

I've mentioned it before, but if the Boise St. incident causes LaGarrette Blount to fall to the late third round, I think he'd be a great value.

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The question, though, is if it will also take him off the Pats' draft board.

(It might not have; Meriweather did something not entirely dissimilar, and we know that they "chatted" with Meriweather about that particular incident before they picked him.)

mayoclinic said:

I don't think we have much need for depth this year, depedending on what happens with re-signing and extending teams. I see us using our day 1 picks and using our other picks to trade around or trade into 2011. But I can definitiely see an opening for pass rushing DE/OLBs, a RB and an OG at the very least. You want to stay ahead of the curve and not draft only when there's a huge hole, as it usually takes a year for prospects to develop in our system. The other picks will depend on who is available.

Again, this was more an exercise about possible needs and guys to focus on for the next 6 months heading up to the draft than about what we will actually do, which is always a mystery.

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This team may have a lot more openings than you think. Bodden, Burgess,
Faulk, Green, Hanson, Neal, Seau, Watson, and Wilfork are due to be
free agents whether or not 2010 is uncapped. Alexander, Gostkowski,
Mankins, and Woods will be free agents if 2010 is capped.

The Patriots need the positions you mentioned above plus a tight end
and defensive tackle. The 2010 draft may be loaded with juniors
because of the specter of a rookie salary cap. A new CBA will not
occur until late February 2010 at the earliest. The juniors will have
declared well before this occurs. With a first and three seconds, the
Patriots should load up on good prospects. Why defer picks until
2011 when the 2010 draft may be loaded?

ctpatsfan77 said:

The question, though, is if it will also take him off the Pats' draft board.

(It might not have; Meriweather did something not entirely dissimilar, and we know that they "chatted" with Meriweather about that particular incident before they picked him.)

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I really liked Blount going into the year and if he falls because he missed a full year I think he'd be great value. I think if BB sees the talent there and feels the guy has matured since his mistake through the interview process that he will take him. I think taking Tate in the 3rd will prove to be great value, and he had some off field issues with testing positive for marijuana.

I remember Mayock saying Blount was a mini Brandon Jacobs with more speed. That's exactly what we could use a bruiser between the tackles with some break away speed.

Ochmed Jones said:

I think OLB remains the single hardest position for us to follow how BB thinks. BB says he wants to draft big guys that can run fast. But there is so much more to it than that:

They have to be strong enough to stack the edge on running plays.

They have to be quick twitch enough to cover.

They have to be explosive enough to rush the passer.

And most importantly I think they have to show on film that they can do all three.

When you consider how many names BB passed on in last year's draft alone, it makes you wonder what morey he is really looking for in draft eligible players for this position.

I have heard people say he prefers veterans at OLB and safety as these are critical points in his defense.

I would hope that with the success of Merriweather (and one day Chung), maybe he is now ready to tackle the task of drafting and developing his own OLB.

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Nice summary. It makes sense that BB would pass in the high rounds on players who might excel in one area (e.g., Everette Brown rushing the passer, but lacking in length and run stopping ability). Shawne Crable is a good example of someone who has ideal length and speed, but isn't strong enough to set the edge and play the run. There are always guys like TBC and Ninkovich who can all 3 things adequately (but with less upside) for a much cheaper price. That's why I can't see us spending a high pick on someone like Ricky Sapp or Von Miller.

Guys who are currently playing DE but have either prior background at OLB or evidence of the athleticism to play it, with the necessary size, strength to take on linemen, run stopping ability, quick twitch and hips to play in space include Greg Hardy, Derrick Morgan, Everson Griffen, Jason Pierre-Paul, and Jeremy Beal. Jerry Hughes and Sergio Kindle may also fall into this class if they show that they are strong enough to set the edge and play the run for us. True sophomore Robert Quinn would also be on the list, but is not draft eligible for 2010.

Some of these guys will go 2nd round - there's just too many to all go in the first round. With 2 picks in the 33-50 range, that's a good place to take a gamble on one of them.

I've just read that Matt Conrath is draft-eligible. I thought he was a true sophomore, but apparently this is his third year. Do you think BB would be interested in a 6'7" 270 lb athletic 5-technique guy?

dryheat44 said:

I've just read that Matt Conrath is draft-eligible. I thought he was a true sophomore, but apparently this is his third year. Do you think BB would be interested in a 6'7" 270 lb athletic 5-technique guy?

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Wes Bunting from National Football Post had an article recently on 3rd year sophomores and the draft:

A look at third-year sophomore prospects | National Football Post

He notes regarding Conrath: "A tall, long-armed lineman who plays with a motor and is developing into quite a five-technique defensive end in Al Groh’s 3-4 defense. He has a frame that can certainly fill out and offers a nice bit of upside at the next level."

I haven't seen much of Virginia play, but he certainly has nice length and a frame that could tolerate more weight. I'm sure BB will have conversations with Al Groh about him. I don't have much of a sense of where he would go if he did come out.

mayoclinic said:

Wes Bunting from National Football Post had an article recently on 3rd year sophomores and the draft:

A look at third-year sophomore prospects | National Football Post

He notes regarding Conrath: "A tall, long-armed lineman who plays with a motor and is developing into quite a five-technique defensive end in Al Groh’s 3-4 defense. He has a frame that can certainly fill out and offers a nice bit of upside at the next level."

I haven't seen much of Virginia play, but he certainly has nice length and a frame that could tolerate more weight. I'm sure BB will have conversations with Al Groh about him. I don't have much of a sense of where he would go if he did come out.

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I saw a handful of UVA games last season, and in the second half of the season, he was probably the second-best player on the defense, after Sintim. I've yet to see him this year. If he comes out, he's definitely worth a mid-round pick, IMO.

Liverpool_Patriot said:

On a side note, could all the people who know what they're talking about in College Football tell me which players to look out for. I will be able to watch the following games this week:

- Purdue vs. Wisconsin
- Indiana vs. Iowa
- Florida vs. Georgia

Like I said, I look forward to becoming more involved in future draft discussions...

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In the Indiana/Iowa Game, watch Iowa DE Adrian Clayborn (#94), Iowa LB AJ Edds (#49) and CB Amari Spievey (#19). They are all top 100 prospects in my book.