Is Moss worth $11,257,280?

Keeping Moss for next year at 6m is a no brainer.

With the way the rules are enforced in the NFL today you have to be able to throw the football. Polian and his competition committe changed the game. It isn't coincidental that if you look at the top 10 passing teams in the NFL you get a list of 10 teams with winning records, 8 playoff teams, and the top 3 seeds in each conference.

borg said:

Moss is a one trick pony. He runs straight, and if scheme confuses the D, he may get one on one. He can't cut or break tackles. He doesn't outleap the defender. Without his patented pushoff move, has trouble in short routes. A guy that disappears for half the games should not be the second highest paid player.

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Yes, Moss disappeared for half the game.. Why? Because the offensive line couldn't protect Brady. It's pretty sad when the Ravens are using 3-4 people to pass rush and they are still getting to Brady on stunts and delayed rushes.

But lets just forget that happened. It was all Moss' fault. It was Moss' fault that Ed Reed was shaded to his side and that they had 2 guys on Moss most of the game (contrary to Simms/Nantz). But, yeah, it's Moss' fault that Koppen let Ray Lewis get in for a sack on Brady. It's Moss' fault that Light couldn't force Terrell Suggs wide enough that, even with Brady stepping up in the pocket, Suggs was able to strip Brady of the ball.

Get the picture yet?

IronSheik said:

I can't believe the Moss bashing. You take him off the 07 Pats and replace him with Owens, Andre Johnson, Chad Johnson, Marshall,Wayne or Colston that season and Brady has around 30-35 TD if everybody else is the same that year and the Pats are 12-4 or 13-3. He is that much of a difference maker.

Now image Moss on the 2004 Colts in place of Harrison or Wayne and Manning as a even better year.

As Moss not getting more balls his way. Brady needs to take more chances and try to get Moss the ball.

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This isn't Weeks 1-8 of 2007. Moss isn't the same player.

a WR is only as good as the QB geting him the ball and right now that QB is not very good


when you have a top WR teams are going to put more then one guy on him to stop him it's up to the pats to drew up a good game plan to get him the ball any way they can

moss is worth ever doller and if they did not have moss the pats would not even have made the playoffs this year

Moss is worth whatever he's owed but only if he can be included in a gameplan that maximizes his usefulness.

Like any other player, if Moss is not used properly then he's not going to perform to his maximum level. This was the case far too often this season for the Pats either because they had a dunce at OC or because of personnel issues.

I can't believe those who argue that the Pats should get rid of Moss because his presence negatively influences how Brady plays. This is absurd! A great player like Moss is never a negative. If Moss' presence negatively influences how Brady performs then he (Brady) had best figure it out. If he can't then Brady's arse should be sat down in favour of someone who can.

The comments here about him being 'utilized properly' kinda show to me why I think the offense is better off with the Wes Welker and Julian Edelmans of the world than Randy Moss. When the team was grinding the ball with short passes, hard running, it made the defense look that much better. The D would have the energy to come harder, the opposing offense had to scramble more and make more mistakes.

Please do note, this is said with no undue amount of frustration that we might be wasting the prime of Brady's career.

IronSheik said:

I can't believe the Moss bashing. You take him off the 07 Pats and replace him with Owens, Andre Johnson, Chad Johnson, Marshall,Wayne or Colston that season and Brady has around 30-35 TD if everybody else is the same that year and the Pats are 12-4 or 13-3. He is that much of a difference maker.

Now image Moss on the 2004 Colts in place of Harrison or Wayne and Manning as a even better year.

As Moss not getting more balls his way. Brady needs to take more chances and try to get Moss the ball.

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16-0 was exciting. But in the end it didn't translate and there is a reason for that. Manning earns his keep on quick release and timing throws. Moss would kill him. They let Harrison go for the same reason, diminishing returns. When you have a QB like Manning or Brady who can hit the open receiver if he's where he's supposed to be based on the coverage, and even hit him in tight coverage if he trusts the player to make the play on that ball, it's a shame to tie him up in knots trying to recussitate aonce brilliant but suddenly fading connection to a once great player. They will hit him at times but begin to misfire more often and it just won't be enough when the dust settles. Brady has been lambasted here routinely this season for either continuing to take chances that have become adverse risk/reward or not taking any chances... This is the dance and what it entails when you are trying to rekindle something that is just not consistently there anymore.

I think the fans here have fotgotten that before Moss and before CJ and Bethel there were players like Branch and Givens that were drafted and developed here. And for every FA bust there was a FA gem who made the connection and fit the scheme. None of them had a regular season with Brady like Moss did in 2007, but at the end of the day they provided enough to get this team to the playoffs and in most cases contributed more once we got there. That it wasn't enough in some cases is immaterial because it hasn't been enough with Moss, either.

I think going forward the more time we spend trying to figure out how to salvage the Moss years here the less time we have to build a functional offense for the second half of Brady's career. He has tried to do what he can to play a role when his natural role is limited by personnel or scheme (ours as well as opponents). But it's not his forte and it never was and as he ages it becomes even less effective. And he is sensitive to handle and that adds just another element to what Brady in particular (as well as coaches and teamates) has to deal with over the grinding course of a 17 week and hopefully longer season.

According to Gresh on 98.5 today, Moss was in the locker room last night, talking to Faulk about "stacking bread," i.e. making money.

DaBruinz said:

Yes, Moss disappeared for half the game.. Why? Because the offensive line couldn't protect Brady. It's pretty sad when the Ravens are using 3-4 people to pass rush and they are still getting to Brady on stunts and delayed rushes.

But lets just forget that happened. It was all Moss' fault. It was Moss' fault that Ed Reed was shaded to his side and that they had 2 guys on Moss most of the game (contrary to Simms/Nantz). But, yeah, it's Moss' fault that Koppen let Ray Lewis get in for a sack on Brady. It's Moss' fault that Light couldn't force Terrell Suggs wide enough that, even with Brady stepping up in the pocket, Suggs was able to strip Brady of the ball.

Get the picture yet?

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I agree with everything you said except for the Suggs play. Light did force Suggs wide enough. Only, for some reason, Brady stepped back in the pocket even though he had room to step up. That made it easier for Suggs to swat the ball. Why did Brady do that? Personally... I think Brady was further injured on that crushing sack by Lewis. He came down right on his bad side. From that point on, Brady played horribly.

Random person said:

A wide receiver that ranks 5th in yards and 1st in touchdowns, or save 6 million, you decide.......

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Yea, basically...

did we expect anything less from a guy who shows up looking like a homeless crack head and rep like his?? this guy is history. i firmly believe he's the reason bill lost the locker room.

BillPower said:

did we expect anything less from a guy who shows up looking like a homeless crack head and rep like his?? this guy is history. i firmly believe he's the reason bill lost the locker room.

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Not exactly, but nice try.

They need him back, but it is obvious that he needs a little more rest and that while other players can perform near 100% when banged up, he usually had a larger dropoff.

I know, I remember the game where his back obviously hurting and he came through, but more often when he had a game where he disappeared it also looked like he physically was not right.

Giving him a practice or two off is a nice start, but i fear soon that he may be on the Seau plan where you can expect 10 good games from him so you had better pcik and choose when you want them. For those 10 games there are only about 5 guys in the league that can match him, though, and none will ever be available.

Brady had 52 total TD in 2007 and alot that was do to having Moss on the field. 3 times in Minnesota the Vikings got a total of 40 plus total TD's from there QB Spot.

98-Cunningham/Johnson-42
00-Culpepper-40[ Culpepper didn't throw a single pass the year before]
04-Culpepper-41[Moss missed 5 games and and played the last 5 games less then 100% healthy]

Since 98 there have been 6 teams that have had a total of 40 or more passing/rushing TD from there QB's and Moss played a part in 4 of them.

No other player can make that much of a difference on offense the way Moss does.

Statistically, I don't deny he's a fantastic wide reciever, almost a certified Hall of Famer. However, the team has shown in the past it's greater than just one player and IF there is a cap next year, having one wide receiver making that much is something they could do without if they want to spend the money elsewhere.

mgteich said:

Would anyone like to guess on how many TD passes Moss would have if we acquired a true #2 receiver and perhaps even a #4 receiver? Welker/Edelman can be counted on to fill the slot receiver position.

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Does anybody really think Welker would have had led the league in reception for 2 out of the last 3 seasons if Moss wasn't double teamed?

At this point, I think Moss' production is worth the cap hit.
I also don't think that there are many teams willing to trade a high draft pick him for him (ie: Seymour to the Raiders for a 1st).
Therefore, I don't expect the Patriots to trade him, or cut him (although i'm cautiously optimistic about them cutting him).

I think Brady likes having Moss on the field. Maybe not as a pure receiver, but almost as another player who knows how to read defenses. I think he likes to communicate with another player on the field who sees the same things as he is seeing. Is Moss as dominant as he once was?? NO. But can he still be a valuable asset to the team?? I'd like to think Yes.

I'm not worried about Moss's cap hit at all, nor his production on the field.

I admit to having a 10% suspicion that Brady and Belichick might not be opposed to seeing Randy move on, esp. through a trade.

But that's only at 10%.

90% tells me they are being straight that they think of Randy as a key to the offense.

If they do trade him, then they need to go CRAZY in the draft taking receivers left and right.

Prufrock said:

Stats are wonderful, but they don't win Superbowls.


You know what wins Superbowls? Making 7 yard catches on third downs in January.

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Well said. Thank you.

DaBruinz said:

Yes, Moss disappeared for half the game.. Why? Because the offensive line couldn't protect Brady. It's pretty sad when the Ravens are using 3-4 people to pass rush and they are still getting to Brady on stunts and delayed rushes.

But lets just forget that happened. It was all Moss' fault. It was Moss' fault that Ed Reed was shaded to his side and that they had 2 guys on Moss most of the game (contrary to Simms/Nantz). But, yeah, it's Moss' fault that Koppen let Ray Lewis get in for a sack on Brady. It's Moss' fault that Light couldn't force Terrell Suggs wide enough that, even with Brady stepping up in the pocket, Suggs was able to strip Brady of the ball.

Get the picture yet?

Click to expand...

I agree as far as the Moss-Blamethon goes, not everything belongs to him. Our OL is absolutely frightening at times, lots of times. A lot of our offensive problems sit with them, not all of course but too many for my comfort zone.

If the Pats don't correct what ails that line then we'll have bigger problems than Randy Moss.

So I agree about the Moss bashing but I also have to agree with pats1 when he said Moss isn't the same player that he was in 07, for whatever reason, but he isn't. He's got physical problems which I think has a lot to do with it and if it's injuries that are hampering him then he needs to either get better or re-think his options.

If we can fix our OL I think it's worth keeping him (they need to be fixed no matter what happens to Moss) but if injuries are affecting his play then

But like with every player, at the end of the day it's about making that clutch play at a crucial time.