Shmessy Replies to Tom Casale

Brownfan80 · Oct 12, 2006

Clonamery said:
He admitted his role and did a mea culpa, didn't he????

The 3x username poster? Not that I saw, and I've been looking.

BradyManny · Oct 12, 2006

shmessy said:
Look, I fully respect Miguel and appreciate his sense of fairness. However, in this case, I believe he is missing the difference between a) Patriots Football Weekly reporting a fact (which is fine) and b) they reporting 25% of an incident and saying they cannot mention the other 75% which is juicier.

That is rank innuendo against a human being. Whether it is true or not is immaterial. Responsible and ethical people do not go on a public radio/internet show and "break" a story about someone's character leaving 75% of the story up to the public's imagination. Simple as that.

This is all true, but beside the point. Everyone is truly missing the point.

It is ridicolous what Casale has done in its own right, but the most crazy thing about the entire story is that he is judging Chad Jackson based on a few comments at a gala.

The point is, no matter what Chad Jackson said up there or did up there, there is absolutely no basis for taking something a 21 year old kid said in front of this gala and making a judgement on his character, and furthermore, taking that crazy judgement and applying it to his ability to play football. So what if he said something stupid? How many of us have told stupid inappropriate jokes before? Are we bad people? So he's a bad public speaker, maybe he was nervous, maybe he didn't understand the crowd he was with, but really, to actually judge this kid or form any kind of opinion based on whatever he said, that's plain wrong & mean-spirited. I mean, geez, Casale's of the world need to lighten the F up.

5 Rings for Brady!! · Oct 12, 2006

Miguel said:
Funny thing.

I do not have a problem with what Casale did in regards to Chad Jackson. I happen to think that he did the right thing. I do not have a problem with Shmessy's actions. This is supposed to be a board when differing opinions are allowed and encouraged. This should not be a board where a person is attacked for offering a differing opinion.

I have a problem with Casale referring to this site as PatsPsychos.com and not one of his cohorts having a problem with that - at least on the air. I do not know if his cohorts were afraid to challenge a rather fired up Casale or if they agreed with him. Either way, my opinion of Casale and them went down. As a profilic poster I was rather offended by Casale's broad characterization of this board's posters.

Tom Casale should know that I think highly of Mike Reiss not just because I think that he is an excellent beat writer for the Patriots but because Reiss is not dismissive of Patriots fans as are Casale, Felger, and Holley. I, as a fan of the Patriots, am a subscriber of Patriots Football Weekly. I do not subscribe to Patriots Football Weekly just so I can read Casale, Perillo, Hart, Kirsch, etc. I would think that Casale would show more respect to his customers. Some of his customers may one day decide that they will no longer purchase a product where on-air disdain for their customers is an accepted practice. That day for this subscriber is not today. If anyone from Patriots Football Weekly wants to confirm that I am a subscriber, please send me a PM.

Please note that I am not advocating a boycott of Patriots Football Weekly. I am advocating respect for the other person's opinion. I am advocating the non-use of name-calling.

--
Miguel (a fan, not a pyscho).

I agree. Let me just add that I personally don't care what Chad said at the gala, as long as it was not cursing somebody out or deliberate sexual harassement of a girl or something. A bad joke or immature comment to me is not even a blip on the radar for ANY NFL rookie. These guys are kids, for christsake!

At the same time, Casale and others apparently tried to handle the situation delicately, which is what seems to be pissing everyone off, that we aren't privy to the sordid details. I still really don't care what Chad said/did as long as it was legal and just free speech not directed at a specific individual.

Hopefully Casale reads this website in one 'guise' or another, which is probably a good thing. I think he clearly gets that most people here prefer Reiss's style of journalism, since he seemed to mention that. He seems to get that we hate Felger/Borges. We have one big Casale supporter around here, still waiting to here from him!

Calling us out was the only beef I have. We are the people that make his cushy insider job possible, and we could get him fired or at least put heat on him if we were so inclined. I have subscribed to his newspaper in the past. Probably won't in the future. I think he needs to understand that we are fans, nothing more.

BradyManny · Oct 12, 2006

5 Rings for Brady!! said:
At the same time, Casale and others apparently tried to handle the situation delicately, which is what seems to be pissing everyone off, that we aren't privy to the sordid details. I still really don't care what Chad said/did as long as it was legal and just free speech not directed at a specific individual.

Delicately would have been to say nothing at all and to give the kid a free pass for being a kid. Instead, he decided to be an attention whore and a gossip whore.

Casale had to know the consequences of his actions - by not specifying what CJ did, he only made it far worse for the kid. The reason Casale isn't specifying what CJ did is certainly not out of any favor to CJ - it is probably b/c Casale is afraid that the average person is reasonable and forgiving, and not some tight-wad nutcase, and that we would come to a very different conclusion about CJ than he did.

shmessy · Oct 12, 2006

BradyManny2344 said:
Delicately would have been to say nothing at all and to give the kid a free pass for being a kid. Instead, he decided to be an attention whore and a gossip whore.

Casale had to know the consequences of his actions - by not specifying what CJ did, he only made it far worse for the kid. The reason Casale isn't specifying what CJ did is certainly not out of any favor to CJ - it is probably b/c Casale is afraid that the average person is reasonable and forgiving, and not some tight-wad nutcase, and that we would come to a very different conclusion about CJ than he did.

Exactly, BradyManny. Patriots Football Weekly radio/internet show (the original people I was complaining about, until Casale took the entire thing on himself yesterday) did not "break" this story "delicately". They spent several minutes on it right after the gala and brought in poor Lori Baranski to be their "human shield" to corroborate it so they can dodge criticism.

"Delicate" would be:

1) Don't report it at all.
or
2) Report it in full so that there are no misperceptions created.

What they did then, and what they did further yesterday was to multiply the situation for Jackson by saying 'It's all true, but we must leave out the really juicy tidbits for your imaginations'.

That's not "delicate". That's despicable.

BradyManny · Oct 12, 2006

^^Well said shmessy.

shakadave · Oct 12, 2006

shmessy said:
Then perhaps he should stick to football analysis instead of character assassination via vague innuendo about a 21 year old rookie at a social event.

Something we all forget sometimes is that these players have families and former teachers and priests. If there is a story to be reported about the kid, report it. If you want to "protect him from bad pub." as The PFW folks CLAIM, then DON'T report it.

What they did was spend several minutes gossiping on their show back in August (and then today for another 7 + minutes) about how immature and badly Jackson acted at the event...........but they didn't feel it was "right" to specify. Pathetic.

They are definitely unprofessional in this and other ways. They don't even try to be professional --- eating while on the air, etc. They laugh about f-word double-entendres like junior high kids. They go off on 10-minute tangents about non-football matters and then angrily criticize anyone who says they shouldn't. But they do throw in just enough Patriots discussion to keep me listening --- sort of like those national talk radio shows that include literally 30 minutes of commercials per hour.

shmessy · Oct 12, 2006

shakadave said:
They are definitely unprofessional in this and other ways. They don't even try to be professional --- eating while on the air, etc. They laugh about f-word double-entendres like junior high kids. They go off on 10-minute tangents about non-football matters and then angrily criticize anyone who says they shouldn't. But they do throw in just enough Patriots discussion to keep me listening --- sort of like those national talk radio shows that include literally 30 minutes of commercials per hour.

Honestly, I could care less about their "style". If they want to be "edgy", "controversial", laid-back", whatever.

Be well, God bless (as Tony Soprano would say).

However, when they put out 25% of a story on a kid's character and tell their audience they are leaving out 75% of the really juicy stuff, then that is simply wronging a 21 year old rookie far from home. An easy target if ever there was one. Pathetic.

BradyManny · Oct 12, 2006

Again, I don't think anyone has responded to this point I'm really trying to get across that what they did goes beyond just the whole leaving it up to our imaginations issue - no matter what CJ did, I highly doubt it's worthy of making a judgement on his character or his ability to play wide receiver. That's what bugs me most, I guess.

Brownfan80 · Oct 12, 2006

BradyManny2344 said:
Again, I don't think anyone has responded to this point I'm really trying to get across that what they did goes beyond just the whole leaving it up to our imaginations issue - no matter what CJ did, I highly doubt it's worthy of making a judgement on his character or his ability to play wide receiver. That's what bugs me most, I guess.

I noted the point, and also agree with you completely.

I think both issues are the crux of it. The point you made that no judgement should have ever been made off of that one instance. And also the point that if it was big enough to introduce that it should have been done fully.

As it stands it leaves no one the option of deciding for themselves if what Chad did was so bad. We're supposed to just take Casale's word for it and judge Chad as he's judged him. Which is ludicrous. A reporter is supposed to REPORT FACTS. Don't report to me what it is that you think that I should think, give me facts and let me decide for myself what I think of them.

He has described Chad's actions over and over in glowing terms as to how embarrassing, immature, or dispicable they were, but never once given any of us the ability to decide for ourselves.

This is why a reporter should either report a fact and let his audience decide, or SAY NOTHING. I think the fact that he doesn't see this as obvious is just a travesty. He's responded rediculously to a very legit problem.

He points to Tamase as though Tomase did the same thing as him, which is false. Tomase reported the facts that he thought were pertinent, got the story out that he wanted to print, and said NOTHING of anything else. Casale, on the other hand, introduced AT LENGTH information that was supposedly horrible, but that he refused to air. Tomase = Doing it the right way (saying nothing), Casale = A moron.

BradyManny · Oct 12, 2006

Well put - you said it a lot better than I could've. That really sums it up, everything you just said is right on point.

maxhagen · Oct 12, 2006

Guys,

I am very offended with the remarks made by Casale about this site. Mr. Casale apparently forgot that even thou we are just fans (or psychos or idiots as he said) we are a very important part of the Patriots community. We, the ones that buy the clothing, souvenirs, hats, posters, the TICKETS for the games, the DirectTV Sunday Tickets, PFW, etc and we do deserve more respect from a person that gets paid with the money we spend. Because he is "offended" for what Shmessy said he has the right to insult us? Based on what I read, Shmessy just told him that if you're going to inform news about someone, you either be SPECIFIC in what you're saying or don't inform it. People say that half a truth is a lie and that's what a rumor is.

What's funny is that he doesn't realize those remarks about one of the biggest patriots communities could bring him trouble because the Patriots organization shouldn't allow an employee to publicly offend members of their community or sponsors. That would look bad on them.

If I was the team management I would request a public apology from Mr Casale for offending not just this site and us, but for offending every single fan that with their own money and time build something to gather people to support the team.

Brownfan80 · Oct 12, 2006

maxhagen said:
Guys,

I am very offended with the remarks made by Casale about this site. Mr. Casale apparently forgot that even thou we are just fans (or psychos or idiots as he said) we are a very important part of the Patriots community. We, the ones that buy the clothing, souvenirs, hats, posters, the TICKETS for the games, the DirectTV Sunday Tickets, PFW, etc and we do deserve more respect from a person that gets paid with the money we spend. Because he is "offended" for what Shmessy said he has the right to insult us? Based on what I read, Shmessy just told him that if you're going to inform news about someone, you either be SPECIFIC in what you're saying or don't inform it. People say that half a truth is a lie and that's what a rumor is.

What's funny is that he doesn't realize those remarks about one of the biggest patriots communities could bring him trouble because the Patriots organization shouldn't allow an employee to publicly offend members of their community or sponsors. That would look bad on them.

If I was the team management I would request a public apology from Mr Casale for offending not just this site and us, but for offending every single fan that with their own money and time build something to gather people to support the team.

Amen brother. Several of his comments about posters on this site were very offensive to me. Not only do I have a Fiance, but I also have a steady job, a full set of Bills and responsibilities that I take care of, and am planning to start a family. Just because I come on this site frequently doesn't make me or any one else on this board a 'prototypical internet geek' IE no girl, no life, no job.

On top of that, he points out Tamase's handling as though that somehow validates him, when in fact Tomase's handling of the information is a prime example of exactly how Casale screwed up!

Casale stated that he told the WHOLE STORY to Tomase, and Tomase decided to leave the 'worst info' out. Well not only did Tomase leave it out, he said absolutely nothing of it. Casale is well documented as having gone on and on about the information without divulging it.

Tomase's actions don't avenge Casale, they highlight exactly how unprofessional and unethical that Casale's actions actually were.

shmessy · Oct 12, 2006

maxhagen said:
Guys,

I am very offended with the remarks made by Casale about this site. Mr. Casale apparently forgot that even thou we are just fans (or psychos or idiots as he said) we are a very important part of the Patriots community. We, the ones that buy the clothing, souvenirs, hats, posters, the TICKETS for the games, the DirectTV Sunday Tickets, PFW, etc and we do deserve more respect from a person that gets paid with the money we spend. Because he is "offended" for what Shmessy said he has the right to insult us? Based on what I read, Shmessy just told him that if you're going to inform news about someone, you either be SPECIFIC in what you're saying or don't inform it. People say that half a truth is a lie and that's what a rumor is.

What's funny is that he doesn't realize those remarks about one of the biggest patriots communities could bring him trouble because the Patriots organization shouldn't allow an employee to publicly offend members of their community or sponsors. That would look bad on them.

If I was the team management I would request a public apology from Mr Casale for offending not just this site and us, but for offending every single fan that with their own money and time build something to gather people to support the team.

I appreciate the sentiment, Max. However, we are all big boys and girls here, most of us are anonymous, and we can take his silly little personal hits.

Chad Jackson, isn't. He is the true victim in all this. He is a 21 year old rookie trying to establish himself in what may be the only career for which he is currently fit (perhaps he has a doctorate, I have no idea).

Picture any of ourselves as a 21 year old kid beginning our first jobs 1,200 miles from home in the public eye. Sure, he gets paid way more than most of us to be in that situation. But is it fair to report something on him and proclaim that you are leaving 75% of the really bad stuff out - - for the public to imagine.

No, if Jackson did something stupid in public REPORT IT or IGNORE IT. Reporting it and saying you are going to keep the really bad part out for the public to imagine is despicable.

PATSNUTme · Oct 12, 2006

maxhagen said:
Guys,

I am very offended with the remarks made by Casale about this site. Mr. Casale apparently forgot that even thou we are just fans (or psychos or idiots as he said) we are a very important part of the Patriots community. We, the ones that buy the clothing, souvenirs, hats, posters, the TICKETS for the games, the DirectTV Sunday Tickets, PFW, etc and we do deserve more respect from a person that gets paid with the money we spend. Because he is "offended" for what Shmessy said he has the right to insult us? Based on what I read, Shmessy just told him that if you're going to inform news about someone, you either be SPECIFIC in what you're saying or don't inform it. People say that half a truth is a lie and that's what a rumor is.

What's funny is that he doesn't realize those remarks about one of the biggest patriots communities could bring him trouble because the Patriots organization shouldn't allow an employee to publicly offend members of their community or sponsors. That would look bad on them.

If I was the team management I would request a public apology from Mr Casale for offending not just this site and us, but for offending every single fan that with their own money and time build something to gather people to support the team.

Very well said!:rocker:

To put it in business terms, we are the teams customers. Employees of a business should not be insulting their company's customers.

Without customers, they have no job, just that simple. So, they should keep what they think about their customers to themselves, smile and say NOTHING.

Business 101, and I'm surprised that Bob Kraft hasn't drilled this into the heads of every one of his employees.

flutie2phelan · Oct 12, 2006

Speaking of Multiple User Names

Box_O_Rocks said:
This is your chance to upgrade your user name...

Thanx ... i believe i will.

This is flutie2phelan's final post.
In the spirit of full disclosure to all other blithe spirits who haunt this fine messageboard,
be it known that the poster formerly known by that moniker
hereafter stains these hallowed pages as ...
you guessed it ! ... psychoPat.

Actually, f2p and his 2900 or so posts
himself was the successor to ol' plunkett2vataha ... who had about 1100 dating back to just before the 2003 season.

But this seems like a good juncture for another makeover
... so please welcome the newbie.

shmessy · Oct 12, 2006

Re: Speaking of Multiple User Names

flutie2phelan said:
Thanx ... i believe i will.

This is flutie2phelan's final post.
In the spirit of full disclosure to all other blithe spirits who haunt this fine messageboard,
be it known that the poster formerly known by that moniker
hereafter stains these hallowed pages as ...
you guessed it ! ... psychoPat.

Actually, f2p and his 2900 or so posts
himself was the successor to ol' plunkett2vataha ... who had about 1100 dating back to just before the 2003 season.

But this seems like a good juncture for another makeover
... so please welcome the newbie.

Who had the Over-Under on THIS?????????

My bet was "within 7 hours from netcast". I lost.

BTW, I'll always have a soft spot for Plunkett2Vataha. P2V was the first veteran poster to welcome me to the old board after my first post.

Box_O_Rocks · Oct 12, 2006

Re: Speaking of Multiple User Names

flutie2phelan said:
Thanx ... i believe i will.

This is flutie2phelan's final post.
In the spirit of full disclosure to all other blithe spirits who haunt this fine messageboard,
be it known that the poster formerly known by that moniker
hereafter stains these hallowed pages as ...
you guessed it ! ... psychoPat.

Actually, f2p and his 2900 or so posts
himself was the successor to ol' plunkett2vataha ... who had about 1100 dating back to just before the 2003 season.

But this seems like a good juncture for another makeover
... so please welcome the newbie.

H'mm, red has always been a color associated with psycho...

maxhagen · Oct 12, 2006

shmessy said:
I appreciate the sentiment, Max. However, we are all big boys and girls here, most of us are anonymous, and we can take his silly little personal hits.

Chad Jackson, isn't. He is the true victim in all this. He is a 21 year old rookie trying to establish himself in what may be the only career for which he is currently fit (perhaps he has a doctorate, I have no idea).

Picture any of ourselves as a 21 year old kid beginning our first jobs 1,200 miles from home in the public eye. Sure, he gets paid way more than most of us to be in that situation. But is it fair to report something on him and proclaim that you are leaving 75% of the really bad stuff out - - for the public to imagine.

No, if Jackson did something stupid in public REPORT IT or IGNORE IT. Reporting it and saying you are going to keep the really bad part out for the public to imagine is despicable.

Shmessy my dear friend, I know you dont want for this to beccome an issue between Mr. Casale and PatsFans.com but unfortunatelly he made it an issue. He simply cant go and say whatever he wants to say and offend people while doing it in the name of the Patriots organization. He can disagree with us as much as any other, but the name calling was completelly unjustified. It's a matter of principle. We won't allow a troll to come here and offend us. We shouldn't allow people who work for the organization we sponsor do it either.

Period.

psychoPat · Oct 12, 2006

Re: Speaking of Multiple User Names

flutie2phelan said:
COLOR]

This is flutie2phelan's final post.
In the spirit of full disclosure to all other blithe spirits who haunt this fine messageboard,
be it known that the poster formerly known by that moniker
hereafter stains these hallowed pages as ...
you guessed it ! ... psychoPat.

This is psychoPat's first message,
confirming that life-altering transition.

Hello again, brethren
and cistern.

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