Idle post game thoughts

Patspsycho said:

All you're telling me is that you don't understand today's game plan. We didn't go to the run very much today, and most of Woodhead's gains have been out of the draw.

Jay (jays52) predicted the game plan to a T yesterday, I have to take my hat off to him.

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Valid point that a guy like BJGE wasn't going to make any yardage against the Ravens run D, thus not a lot of snaps or touches. Which is also EXACTLY WHY we need someone better. I have nothing against the man, but he is the Pats' plan E or F in the running game right now and they are going to have to scheme around the weakness at RB, like they did today, until Taylor comes back healthy--if he does.

Green-Ellis is what he is.

In this thread, I am defending Green-Ellis. He is doing fine. To be compared to Antowain Smith is a compliment. Green-Ellis is a good enough running back for us to have in the Super Bowl.

To think that Taylor at 100% is better that Green-Ellis is not evidence of disliking Green-Ellis.

Patspsycho said:

We all know you don't like him.

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JMarr said:

Valid point that a guy like BJGE wasn't going to make any yardage against the Ravens run D, thus not a lot of snaps or touches. Which is also EXACTLY WHY we need someone better. I have nothing against the man, but he is the Pats' plan E or F in the running game right now and they are going to have to scheme around the weakness at RB, like they did today, until Taylor comes back healthy--if he does.

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I'm wondering if it's worth the time to debate with you. Are you even able to re-watch the game? If you are, you will see the Baltimore D bring their backers to the line whenever BJGE is in there (they didn't do that with Woodhead and paid for it).

Now, when BJGE was in there, they ran him a few times but for the most part they used him as a decoy (play action, e.g., the big Welker gain in the 3rd) to tuck in the linebackers and force them to play the lateral game until they got gassed. You can see Ray Lewis running sideline to sideline on a few of those snaps, and he has 35 year old legs.

Why risk injury to our OL and whoever we have at RB, when there is a better method, e.g., go to the lateral game and gas them?

mgteich said:

Green-Ellis is what he is.

In this thread, I am defending Green-Ellis. He is doing fine. To be compared to Antowain Smith is a compliment. Green-Ellis is a good enough running back for us to have in the Super Bowl.

To think that Taylor at 100% is better that Green-Ellis is not evidence of disliking Green-Ellis.

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He did what we asked of him.

mgteich said:

Green-Ellis is what he is.

In this thread, I am defending Green-Ellis. He is doing fine. To be compared to Antowain Smith is a compliment. Green-Ellis is a good enough running back for us to have in the Super Bowl.

To think that Taylor at 100% is better that Green-Ellis is not evidence of disliking Green-Ellis.

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Absolutely agree. I think that BJGE & Woodhead will be fine for the offense the team seems to be installing, and it will be better when Taylor comes back. It will be nice to have Taylor for the last half of the season when the weather turns and the fields get sloppy. A solid RB at that time will help things VERY much.

In the meantime, you nailed the situation, and I'm not gonna complain because it could always be much worse.

Good thread as always Ken ...

Hopefully Taylor has a chance to hit the field this year.

If not we will need a big guy option back there ... just to keep all options on the table.

I hate to say it but I wonder if Morris survives the season on our roster.

The desire and work are there but the body may be spent. He looks to be somewhere else when doing his interviews ... like he's definitely worried.

Could there be another scrap heap RB out there ... a good old fashioned mudder type?

Ken, you know I love your stuff, and I appreciated much of what you had to say in this installment of everyone's fave, "Idle Thoughts..." BUT --

patfanken said:

CB- I have sung Devin McCourty's praises from the start. Todays efforts didn't disappoint. I don't remember a time when he didn't have tight coverage on his man. Yes passes were completed against him, but each one demanded a good catch by the receiver and a great throw by the QB. If he had gotten his head around on his PI penalty he might have gotten a pick. But was most encouraging was that when the Ravens ran the same play in OT he not only stayed with his man, he got his body in position to make a play on the ball. This kid is going to be GREAT....not just good. Mark my words, in the future he will be mentioned in the same breath with Ty Law and Mike Haynes as the greatest Pats CB.

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-- ARE YOU INSANE? LOL. I love your enthusiasm and I share your high hopes for Devin McCourty, but I thought he played a pretty putrid game today. Maybe that's too far the other way, but the idea that his turning around and doing better in OT makes up for a game-long struggle-fest (imo) seems a bit too, shall we say, kind. Optimistic. Silly, maybe.

I really, REALLY hope you're right and everyone jumps all over me for saying it, but I honestly don't know what on Earth I was watching if that's the case because I felt like he was getting TORTURED today. Yes, he made SOME plays, and yes, he was close on others (that were completed), but all that kept going through my head was, "Exactly how bad is DARIUS BUTLER that we're watching McCourty and (especially) Arrington in the game all day, with no sign of #28 whatsoever?!"

Then, of course, I look at the scoreboard and see we only gave up 20 points so, maybe you're right, what do I know? But I thought it was a step back today, as opposed to a reason to celebrate. Am I done with McCourty? Of course not. Do I think people have been too easy on him this season already? Yep, a little. Do I think he can still be a very, VERY good player. ABSOLUTELY. BB's got him playing more defensive snaps than any other guy on the 53, so he must be doing something right.

Here endeth the rant. Thanks again for your insightful and always anticipated idle thoughts. Keep 'em comin'.

I had a pretty awful seat at the bar today so I wasn't able to get as clear of a look, but when Brady threw the deep pass to Tate did Tate have him beat, and the ball was in a bad place?

I think Tate didn't have much separation AND it was poor placement.

I also think that, while they did have some deep routes run in the 2nd half, Brady didn't see enough and checked down a LOT -- and, having said that, I think they didn't go downfield NEARLY enough. Throw the deep ball, force the D to defend it, even if they do successfully. Hope we see a LOT more of that, moving forward.

Gwedd said:

Absolutely agree. I think that BJGE & Woodhead will be fine for the offense the team seems to be installing, and it will be better when Taylor comes back.

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Pray, how will it be "better" when BJGE has had 3 TDs in the last 3 games in which he saw substantial time?

I daresay that BJGE and Woodhead are combining for much more than Taylor and Morris did last year.

Last year, Taylor, in 6 games had 4 TD and 269 yards. He started all 6 games.

In 5 games this year, BJGE has 3 TD and 235 yards. He has started only TWO games.

patsox23 said:

I think Tate didn't have much separation AND it was poor placement.

I also think that, while they did have some deep routes run in the 2nd half, Brady didn't see enough and checked down a LOT -- and, having said that, I think they didn't go downfield NEARLY enough. Throw the deep ball, force the D to defend it, even if they do successfully. Hope we see a LOT more of that, moving forward.

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I agree but some here are wondering if Brady's precision long throws are part of his past?

Brady2Welker said:

I had a pretty awful seat at the bar today so I wasn't able to get as clear of a look, but when Brady threw the deep pass to Tate did Tate have him beat, and the ball was in a bad place?

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Tate had the inside leverage but the ball was overthrown.

Patspsycho said:

Tate had the inside leverage but the ball was overthrown.

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It looked to me like Brady placed the ball for Tate to cut to the outside lane, where Tate cut inside.

It's seemed like the two of them have been having trouble getting on the same page with deep throws all season.

Patspsycho said:

Tate had the inside leverage but the ball was overthrown.

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Thanks, that's what it looked like to me. But with the alcohol and my view I wasn't 100% certain.

shmessy said:

BTW, I'm just as flummoxed as you about the mysterious near-disappearance of Mr. Edelman.

I was convinced that he would be the key to this game for the Pats after two additional weeks to rest his injury.

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All the more puzzling because he was supernaturally quick in the first pre-season game, before he got injured. I believe he was reported to have hurt an ankle. Just a guess, but perhaps it's the curse of the infamous High Ankle Sprain, which is notorious for slow healing:

High ankle sprain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We saw last year how ineffective Mayo was trying to play on an injury. Perhaps Edelman is trying to come back too soon as well...

patsox23 said:

Ken, you know I love your stuff, and I appreciated much of what you had to say in this installment of everyone's fave, "Idle Thoughts..." BUT --



-- ARE YOU INSANE? LOL. I love your enthusiasm and I share your high hopes for Devin McCourty, but I thought he played a pretty putrid game today. Maybe that's too far the other way, but the idea that his turning around and doing better in OT makes up for a game-long struggle-fest (imo) seems a bit too, shall we say, kind. Optimistic. Silly, maybe.

I really, REALLY hope you're right and everyone jumps all over me for saying it, but I honestly don't know what on Earth I was watching if that's the case because I felt like he was getting TORTURED today. Yes, he made SOME plays, and yes, he was close on others (that were completed), but all that kept going through my head was, "Exactly how bad is DARIUS BUTLER that we're watching McCourty and (especially) Arrington in the game all day, with no sign of #28 whatsoever?!"

Then, of course, I look at the scoreboard and see we only gave up 20 points so, maybe you're right, what do I know? But I thought it was a step back today, as opposed to a reason to celebrate. Am I done with McCourty? Of course not. Do I think people have been too easy on him this season already? Yep, a little. Do I think he can still be a very, VERY good player. ABSOLUTELY. BB's got him playing more defensive snaps than any other guy on the 53, so he must be doing something right.

Here endeth the rant. Thanks again for your insightful and always anticipated idle thoughts. Keep 'em comin'.

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You obviously tucked out for the second half where McCourty went lights out just like the defense did from the fourth and onward. He showed in game learning, put himself into great positions to make plays and rarely put a foot wrong in coverage from what I saw.

Tate was never able to locate where the ball was. It was uncatchable but he looked a little lost. I hope we're not rushing this kid.

Some good observations, as usual. I, too, was particularly impressed with the depth of the defense. In a physical game that goes deep into overtime, the ability to rotate 6 effective DLmen and 5 to 7 effective LB (I'm reserving judgment on Guyton and TBC until I watch more tape) adds up to a much more effective defense at the end of the game. Despite Baltimore having 40+ minutes of possession (or perhaps because of it and NE's depth), the NE defense looked stronger along the LOS at the end of the game than the beginning.

patfanken said:

3. The Pats IMHO got a good break from the officials on that last challenge by BB. It looked to me that when Flacco's knee hit the ground the ball was at the first down marker, not a half yard short.

...

5. For 3 quarters it looked to me that the while the Pats were a "good team", the Ravens were clearly a little bit better. So while we ended up winning a GREAT game, I don't think this elevates the Pats into the "elite" of the league.

...

I doubt there are more than just a couple of teams in our upcoming schedule where anyone would be shocked if we lose. Thats how strong the schedule is.

This is a VERY young team, especially on defense, and VERY young teams make mistakes, and are often inconsistent. While I keep hoping for consistent improvement on a week to week basis, it would be pretty unrealistic to think that this team won't throw a few stinkers at us before the regular season is over.

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On the replay, Flacco looked just barely short of the first down to me, unless the ref used the shin down, which almost never happens in the run of play, but could on a replay. If they used the knee, it would have been inches short (assuming they could even measure that with the sticks already moved), and the Raven's might have gone for it, although with our run D yesterday, perhaps not. I felt like Harbaugh had a few spots where he could have won that game, if he would just be a little more aggressive. The Pats might have tied it up earlier, then, but passivity is death in the NFL. That conservatism was a blessing for the Pats.

I agree about not calling the Pats an elite team yet. Of course, I didn't think the Pats were an elite team in 2001 until JR Redman caught a handful of passes on that last drive of the SB, so that doesn't really temper my expectations.
Most every game is going to be tough. Even the Bills game is likely to be close. That just seems to be the way the Pats play these days, and it's the way the league is.

mgteich said:

Green-Ellis is what we have. I believe that he similar to Antowain Smith.

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I think he's faster than Smith, but he's ~30 pounds lighter, so against a stacked defense like yesterday, he's only good for a yard after contact, instead of 2 to 3.

Woodhead impressed me yesterday with his decisiveness and ability to cut back. People are calling him Faulk 2.0, but there are ways in which he's better (and ways in which he has a long way to go to prove himself). He's decidedly faster and much quicker. The way he bounced up and started running after catching that ball on the ground at the end of regulation was impressive. He did a credible job in pass protection, although it doesn't look like he has the size to be anywhere near as good as Faulk or even BJGE in that department. He picked up an opposite side blitzer on one of the Ngata sacks, but did it so close that Brady had nowhere to go when Koppen got turned and Connolly was caught looking the other way. The other time, he cut Lewis, but Brady unloaded the ball before Lewis stood up and crushed him. It will be tough to go deep against a blitz with him in there.

On the subject of Connolly, there were a couple of plays where he had me glad that Mankins is coming back. He pulled and missed Ray Lewis on a couple occasions, one where he just ran past him and one where he didn't get to the point-of-attack in time. Don't know if Mankins will be an upgrade in pass protection, but the running game won't be hurt by his reappearance. I think there's a job waiting for him. He'll be a good late-season pickup.

Patspsycho said:

All you're telling me is that you don't understand today's game plan. We didn't go to the run very much today, and most of Woodhead's gains have been out of the draw.

Jay (jays52) predicted the game plan to a T yesterday, I have to take my hat off to him.

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I don't dislike BJGE, quite the opposite. The kid is a great story. Just another example of BB finding a player no one else wanted and getting him to maximize his potential. What we can't do is over rate what he is. He's not even ASmith, who was much bigger and stronger. Against good run defenses what we saw yesterday will be what BJGE can do.

BTW, IIRC I don't think Woodhead ran a single draw. What was surprising to me was that they not only handed the ball off to him on straight sweeps, but he has a few hand offs designed to go between the tackles as well.

The key for the Pats is to get 80 to 120+ yds on 25 carries (or more) per game. That is the production that gives the offense balance, and allows the sticks to move.

patsox23 said:

Ken, you know I love your stuff, and I appreciated much of what you had to say in this installment of everyone's fave, "Idle Thoughts..." BUT --



-- ARE YOU INSANE? LOL. I love your enthusiasm and I share your high hopes for Devin McCourty, but I thought he played a pretty putrid game today. Maybe that's too far the other way, but the idea that his turning around and doing better in OT makes up for a game-long struggle-fest (imo) seems a bit too, shall we say, kind. Optimistic. Silly, maybe.

I really, REALLY hope you're right and everyone jumps all over me for saying it, but I honestly don't know what on Earth I was watching if that's the case because I felt like he was getting TORTURED today. Yes, he made SOME plays, and yes, he was close on others (that were completed), but all that kept going through my head was, "Exactly how bad is DARIUS BUTLER that we're watching McCourty and (especially) Arrington in the game all day, with no sign of #28 whatsoever?!"

Then, of course, I look at the scoreboard and see we only gave up 20 points so, maybe you're right, what do I know? But I thought it was a step back today, as opposed to a reason to celebrate. Am I done with McCourty? Of course not. Do I think people have been too easy on him this season already? Yep, a little. Do I think he can still be a very, VERY good player. ABSOLUTELY. BB's got him playing more defensive snaps than any other guy on the 53, so he must be doing something right.

Here endeth the rant. Thanks again for your insightful and always anticipated idle thoughts. Keep 'em comin'.

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Thanks for the compliment, but I think that ausbacker got it right. In this league lots of passes are completed and a CB can only do so much. All I can say is that McCourty has already shown that he can stay with some of the best WRs in the game. He can close in zone, and he's an excellent run supporter and tackler.

This is after just 5 games as a rookie thrown in against the best WR the other team has every week. Also understand Revis didn't become Revis in his rookie year. McCourty has upside as he get more experience. The only hole I see in his game is whether he can make the "big play" Hopefully down the road, that excellent coverage I mentioned in OT turns into a pick, instead of just an incompletion.

But that's why I see that as he progresses he can become something special. I know he isn't an all pro right now