Defensive Fundamentals - aka Tackling

cstjohn17 · Nov 11, 2012

Just brutal, this is just not a well coached or fundamentally strong defense. The good news is they have 7 more weeks to find a groove, my kingdom for an average defense.

carolinatony · Nov 11, 2012

I can not figure out why this defense is so bad.
The F'n Browns have a beter defense than ours.

GOD HELP US WHEN BRADY RETIRES!

Joey007 · Nov 11, 2012

cstjohn17 said:
Just brutal, this is just not a well coached or fundamentally strong defense. The good news is they have 7 more weeks to find a groove, my kingdom for an average defense.

Eh, call it a bad day in the office for that department.

Tackling isn't normally a huge issue with this defense.

Believe me, we have bigger problems.

upstater1 · Nov 11, 2012

Tackling is a problem only when the effort isn't there. If you're not hustling, your body isn't going to be in front of the runner, and you'll try arm tackling, which doesn't work.

I'm sure people will doubt me when I say this, but the Patriots' D simply wasn't trying hard enough out there. If you watch just one guy, watch Ninkovich. I couldn't believe my eyes. The guy was jogging around as Spiller was running right by him, Jackson too.

CityOfChampions · Nov 11, 2012

It's been decent all season until today. Today was pathetic.

Joker · Nov 11, 2012

saw exactly the same thing...plus the rest of the D secondary don't seem to KNOW how to tackle...I'm off the Patricia bandwagon, he's in over his head. I was calling HIS calls from a damn couch with my brothers...deep in their end, you don't rush three on 3rd and nine and let Fitz sit there for 7 to 8 seconds just having a ham sandwich and waiting for a double move to open up 30 yards downfield. How do they FIX this...I do not have a clue... I have NEVER seen a BB coached team come out of a bye and play like THIS defensively.

They will make the playoffs on the sheer sauckitude of the rest of the division...unless they manage to blow it by losing out...and with THIS defense that is NOT out of the question.

Sciz · Nov 11, 2012

One thing to point out is that between the required days off on the bye week and limited padded practices, these guys have had something like two days of padded practices the last two weeks. Combine that with a really shifty RB, and I can see how it'd be a problem.

Joker · Nov 11, 2012

Sciz said:
One thing to point out is that between the required days off on the bye week and limited padded practices, these guys have had something like two days of padded practices the last two weeks. Combine that with a really shifty RB, and I can see how it'd be a problem.

all afternoon the exact same thought bugged me...they look like they haven't even PRACTICED any defensive calls for this game ,specific...and it's not just the Pats....you watch R Zone and you see the same lack of tackling skills, the same lack of intensity, the same boneheaded mistakes in coverage...league wide....yeah, this was pREDICTED by some of the more strategic planners in our fanbase...looks like it's true...the lack of reps is leading to terrible defensive lapses and plays league wide.

DaBruinz · Nov 11, 2012

Joker said:
...yeah, this was pREDICTED by some of the more strategic planners in our fanbase...looks like it's true...the lack of reps is leading to terrible defensive lapses and plays league wide.

The other thing of note about the number of practices being down is that it truly seems like the number of injuries is the same as last year or even up. Last year, I could understand because they didn't have an off-season. This year, though? What's the excuse?

RIpats88 · Nov 11, 2012

to be fair, Our run defense/tackling was HORRID today, but considering they have been decent(and in the run defenses case one of the best) the previous 8 games, im going to call it more of an off-day than a trend.

now the secondary, thats the one we need to worry about

Brady_to_Moss · Nov 11, 2012

they usually tackle well...today was bad..hopefully just a hangover from the bye week

Joker · Nov 11, 2012

I'm guessing a lot of members here remember THEIR football days....I sure do....if a team I played on played like THIS today,coach would be torturing us this week with the reps..and every day...I guess you just can't do that anymore in the NFL...and look, if that IS the case then why NOT just ramp up the blitzing, real SIX man blitzing, and roll the dice...you're getting murdered anyway...why not BE the aggressor instead of the victim?

BTW I know I am overreacting..I get emotionally involved in the Pats games, even after all these years....

BSR · Nov 11, 2012

The guy I was disappointed with was Jones who looked totally ineffective today. I hope he isn't hitting the rookie wall.

Haley · Nov 11, 2012

Joker said:
saw exactly the same thing...plus the rest of the D secondary don't seem to KNOW how to tackle...I'm off the Patricia bandwagon, he's in over his head. I was calling HIS calls from a damn couch with my brothers...deep in their end, you don't rush three on 3rd and nine and let Fitz sit there for 7 to 8 seconds just having a ham sandwich and waiting for a double move to open up 30 yards downfield. How do they FIX this...I do not have a clue... I have NEVER seen a BB coached team come out of a bye and play like THIS defensively.

They will make the playoffs on the sheer sauckitude of the rest of the division...unless they manage to blow it by losing out...and with THIS defense that is NOT out of the question.

Sciz said:
One thing to point out is that between the required days off on the bye week and limited padded practices, these guys have had something like two days of padded practices the last two weeks. Combine that with a really shifty RB, and I can see how it'd be a problem.

There is some truth to both of these comments. The 3 man rush definitely was perplexing to me. Also, what we saw today was not a playoff caliber team. However the tackling isn't a problem we have had in any recent games. And coming off the bye week would suggest some bye week hangover.

cstjohn17 · Nov 12, 2012

Joker said:
saw exactly the same thing...plus the rest of the D secondary don't seem to KNOW how to tackle...I'm off the Patricia bandwagon, he's in over his head. I was calling HIS calls from a damn couch with my brothers...deep in their end, you don't rush three on 3rd and nine and let Fitz sit there for 7 to 8 seconds just having a ham sandwich and waiting for a double move to open up 30 yards downfield. How do they FIX this...I do not have a clue... I have NEVER seen a BB coached team come out of a bye and play like THIS defensively.

They will make the playoffs on the sheer sauckitude of the rest of the division...unless they manage to blow it by losing out...and with THIS defense that is NOT out of the question.

WEEI had Boomer on the radio and he made a good, albeit painful point about coaching. Rex Ryan gets a lot more from his defense with less talent than the Patriots do, the sample size is large enough to say this definitively.

The good thing is that there is no dominant team, all teams have their flaws. If Brady plays lights out the team has a chance.

FirstAndGoal · Nov 12, 2012

cstjohn17 said:
WEEI had Boomer on the radio and he made a good, albeit painful point about coaching. Rex Ryan gets a lot more from his defense with less talent than the Patriots do, the sample size is large enough to say this definitively.

The good thing is that there is no dominant team, all teams have their flaws. If Brady plays lights out the team has a chance.

Yeah but there's also no excuse for the lack of talent on the Jets. They constantly pick before us with few exceptions.

doesntmatter1 · Nov 12, 2012

Believe it or not the secondary wasn't nearly as bad as you think. It was all tackling. Very few deep balls completed but te chandler is a big target. Also dennard couldn't handle the quickness of the bills receivers but many guys struggle against johnson. I was unimpressed by the tackling of gregory and mayo for the most part. Mayo is way better than that and i'll give gregory a pass since that was his first game back in awhile.

Also, I almost died when i saw ninko trying to cover spiller in the fourth. That is a severe mismatch.

chris_in_sunnyvale · Nov 12, 2012

Nothing to add other than this was one of the worst tackling games I've seen in ages. I also agree on the incredibly vanilla defensive gameplan, although there was at least one time the D blitzed or stunted into a run that ate them alive, so perhaps that spooked them from showing more aggression.

On the Bills side of the D, I got a kick out of the DTs lining up off the LOS in a two-point stance, then barrelling in like blitzing LBs. Worked great once as Brady was swarmed over. Was still effective other times, putting pressure.

Regards,
Chris

hwc · Nov 12, 2012

I agree that it is a real head-scratcher pondering how it is that Bill Belichick has been fielding one of the worst defenses in the NFL season after season lately. I think what we are seeing is him wrestling with the fact that it is basically impossible to stop NFL offenses today and trying to implement the ultimate in bend but don't break. The inability to stop the deep ball undermines his whole concept. Must be driving him bonkers. I know, that as a fan, it's driving me insane watching these 4th quarter slo-motion train wrecks, week after week. Sometimes they eek out a win (like yesterday), but it's the same plot line, win or lose. It's like a recurring Sunday afternoon nightmare.

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As for elaborate schemes and blitz packages and so forth... I don't see any evidence that this defense (as a whole) is capable of properly executing plain vanilla. How could you give them something more complex?

upstater1 · Nov 12, 2012

hwc said:
I agree that it is a real head-scratcher pondering how it is that Bill Belichick has been fielding one of the worst defenses in the NFL season after season lately. I think what we are seeing is him wrestling with the fact that it is basically impossible to stop NFL offenses today and trying to implement the ultimate in bend but don't break. The inability to stop the deep ball undermines his whole concept. Must be driving him bonkers. I know, that as a fan, it's driving me insane watching these 4th quarter slo-motion train wrecks, week after week. Sometimes they eek out a win (like yesterday), but it's the same plot line, win or lose. It's like a recurring Sunday afternoon nightmare.

------------

As for elaborate schemes and blitz packages and so forth... I don't see any evidence that this defense (as a whole) is capable of properly executing plain vanilla. How could you give them something more complex?

The old BB defenses were always middle of the road in yards allowed, while top 5 in scoring.

So, what we're seeing here is a mediocre defense that is at the bottom in yards allowed, and middle of the road in scoring.

I agree with you about BB sticking to his philosophy, with the idea being that players over the year will learn to play together and cover areas of the field, so that by the playoffs, more complexity is installed.

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