Pats lost battle of the trenches

Brady_to_Moss · Jan 20, 2014

How can we learn from our defeats and become stronger? The past two playoff games were lost by double digits, we need to stop becoming other teams stepping stone. Last year was the Raven, this year is Denver, next year might be Indy.Are we bound to make the same mistakes again? All we do is get close and that's not good enough.

mb6592 · Jan 20, 2014

tedy hagler said:
We lost battle of trenches on O-line because the white flag was flying on the running game by halftime. Contrast it to Seattle: Marshawn Lynch had 33 yards at the half, getting stuffed pretty regularly. Seattle kept with the run, and it paid off. The Patriots offiense was reduced to a pop gun in a playoff game again, with Brady tossing 30+ times in a loss.

Still, I thank the Patriots for a tremendously entertaining year.

We don't have Seattle's defense. It would have been 35-0, if they stayed with the running game, before they started to loosen up Denver's defensive line.

ausbacker · Jan 20, 2014

The blueprint to beat the Patriots has been there since Super Bowl 42. If you dominate the A Gaps, you're in with a real chance to beat them. Denver controlled the LOS on both sides of the ball and the Patriots missed their opportunities when they game was there to be won.

The credit must go to Denver. They were the better team over the season and proved it in the AFC Championship game. Truthfully, the score was not indicative of how dominant they were yesterday. From my perspective, the Patriots had their asses handed to them.

supafly · Jan 20, 2014

Pats lose in the trenches come January/February?

I don't believe it...

Sadly, we just didn't have the horses this season, but I do believe that we saw a bit of a change in the toughness as well. I think it will continue to improve myself, and I am optimistic that we can continue to see them get tougher in this area.

BlitzFritz · Jan 21, 2014

If you read Reiss' picked up pieces from the game, Terrance Knighton, the Denver nose beast, was the player of the game. He dominated Wendell (and Mankins), stuffed the run early, and got pressure and sacks on Brady.

Picked-up pieces from 2nd-half review - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

(so frickin disappointing)

Seems like we could use a bigger center for sure. Wendell is undersized with good technique, but he got mauled.

Since he is a free agent, i would be in favor of looking at drafting a big interior OL who can start. And even let Connolly snap again.

-- FRITZ

Nunchucks · Jan 21, 2014

I think the big area of concern is on the DL. The Patriots need to draft pass rushers. Hope to see one taken in the first and second rounds. Load up on them, because it became obvious on Sunday that they cannot get pressure. I would like to see the Patriots copy the Giants in that respect.

Gronkandez · Jan 21, 2014

Seems like every year when the Pats lose in the playoffs, the interior OL get dominated and yet there are never any upgrades made.

What is the consensus on Cannon? Can he be the starting RG going forward?

I'm hoping they can draft a Center this year (before the 6th round).

SEA_Pat · Jan 21, 2014

Too many losses due to injury through the center of the defense were eventually going to add up. Wendell is a weak link on the OL. Knighton had a monster game. Happens when the margins are reduced to zero.

Still proud of this team, was a great year.

The Brandon Five · Jan 21, 2014

BlitzFritz said:
If you read Reiss' picked up pieces from the game, Terrance Knighton, the Denver nose beast, was the player of the game. He dominated Wendell (and Mankins), stuffed the run early, and got pressure and sacks on Brady.

Picked-up pieces from 2nd-half review - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

(so frickin disappointing)

Seems like we could use a bigger center for sure. Wendell is undersized with good technique, but he got mauled.

Since he is a free agent, i would be in favor of looking at drafting a big interior OL who can start. And even let Connolly snap again.

-- FRITZ

I can't agree that Wendell had good technique this year. My nephew (who plays center and has played nose tackle/nose guard) picked up his tell on snaps the very first game. Not good when even a high school player can spot it. I am wondering if that is/was part of the problem. The opponents get a jump on the snap. Hard to stop guys who are already up in your grill or halfway past you when you get out of your stance.

Sicilian · Jan 21, 2014

I think a top flight C would be a huge lift to this offense. The problem is, if you draft one, can he come in and be that guy right away? Usually not, though with the right talent who knows. And a good FA center will likely cost a decent amount. With Edelman needing a new contract and not a ton of cap space, that road may not be wise either.

BradyFTW! · Jan 21, 2014

BlitzFritz said:
If you read Reiss' picked up pieces from the game, Terrance Knighton, the Denver nose beast, was the player of the game. He dominated Wendell (and Mankins), stuffed the run early, and got pressure and sacks on Brady.

Picked-up pieces from 2nd-half review - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

(so frickin disappointing)

Seems like we could use a bigger center for sure. Wendell is undersized with good technique, but he got mauled.

Since he is a free agent, i would be in favor of looking at drafting a big interior OL who can start. And even let Connolly snap again.

-- FRITZ

Wendell just isn't very good. You can get away with a bad center against bad-to-decent defensive lines, as long as Mankins is playing next ot him. There's a reason why the interior of the line reliably collapses in the playoffs, though.

ATippett56 · Jan 21, 2014

libra957 said:
Are we bound to make the same mistakes again?

Bill Belichick gutted the New England Patriots offense. The following lists the departures:

Lloyd, Brandon
Welker, Wes
Branch, Deion
Stallworth, Donte
Woodhead, Danny
Hernandez, Aaron
Fells, Daniel
Ballard, Jake
Thomas, Donald
McDonald, Nick

SVN · Jan 23, 2014

from today's chat

Chat: Chat with Mike Reiss - SportsNation - ESPN

Bobo (Boston)

Mike, the biggest disappointment in the loss was the Oline. Wendell and Connolly were both subpar this season. If they could have effectively run, the game would have been different IMO. As such, I think wendell has to walk and connolly needs to restructure. Then I would look at signing a guard (Schwartz from KC) and moving connolly to Center or signing Alex Mack and having connolly and Cannon compete for the RG spot. I prefer the latter. Your thoughts?
Mike (11:32 AM)

Right on the money in terms of what went wrong in the AFC Championship Game. It's remarkable to me how the narrative of "Brady needs more weapons" has picked up steam over the last three days when I don't think that was the main issue in this game. I watched every snap live and then over again on tape and I thought the main issue started at center. They couldn't block Terrance Knighton. Look at the first two drives. On first down, two completed passes to set up manageable second downs. But then runs of 1 and 0 yards as the Broncos controlled the heart of the line of scrimmage. The line basically crumbled. Add in a fourth-down sack given up by your best lineman (Logan Mankins), another sack given up by your second-best lineman on an inside rush (Nate Solder beaten by Robert Ayers), and I saw the foundation of the offense splitting at the seams. This doesn't even touch on Tom Brady missing two deep balls to wide-open targets. So while we could make a case for "Brady needs more weapons", the question I'm trying to figure out the answer to is this: "Why did the offensive line, once again, not rise up in the big game?"

zoostation · Jan 24, 2014

tedy hagler said:
We lost battle of trenches on O-line because the white flag was flying on the running game by halftime. Contrast it to Seattle: Marshawn Lynch had 33 yards at the half, getting stuffed pretty regularly. Seattle kept with the run, and it paid off. The Patriots offiense was reduced to a pop gun in a playoff game again, with Brady tossing 30+ times in a loss.

Still, I thank the Patriots for a tremendously entertaining year.

The Patriots had a total of 6 first downs in the first half and a whopping 16 yards on the ground. In the second half, they had to try to exploit the Denver secondary with the pass to attempt to open up the run. The Broncos were daring the Pats to throw.

There is no doubt this game was lost in the trenches and the Denver D (Terrance Knighton) dominated our O line and our D line allowed Manning enough time to make a sandwich before picking the wide open receiver he would throw to.

Snake Eyes · Jan 24, 2014

BradyFTW! said:
Wendell just isn't very good. You can get away with a bad center against bad-to-decent defensive lines, as long as Mankins is playing next ot him. There's a reason why the interior of the line reliably collapses in the playoffs, though.

:yeahthat:

Until the interior O-line becomes a strength we'll keep having the same situation every year. I hear that insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

State · Jan 26, 2014

ATippett56 said:
Bill Belichick gutted the New England Patriots offense. The following lists the departures:

Lloyd, Brandon
Welker, Wes
Branch, Deion
Stallworth, Donte
Woodhead, Danny
Hernandez, Aaron
Fells, Daniel
Ballard, Jake
Thomas, Donald
McDonald, Nick

Too true, Andre. And it hurts to speculate--now that it's the off season--what a Peter Konz would have looked like in the interior. I remember Ochmed Jones talking up Konz for the Pats. I never liked moving the bigger Connelly over to guard. Put him back at center. And it must be said that the ratings in the 2012 second round look about as accurate as can be expected, in hindsight, according to NFL.com. Tavon Wilson with his 48 versus Peter Konz and his 86 (or the guy I would have taken Kendell Reyes, with an 84). Bill tried too hard to show everyone how smart he was. I bet he's kicking himself now. Too much premier talent squandered. It happens to everyone, but with Tavon Wilson it sure looked like it was not going to work. And it hasn't. 2012 NFL Draft Tracker ? NFL.com

JMarr · Jan 27, 2014

Mind-bogling that so many are focusing mainly on the O-Line in this thread. And Reiss is flat-out wrong (as he is more often than not when he breaks down film). Knighton was a beast and their D-Line played the game of their lives, but we helped them out quite a bit by abandoning the run so early and not trying more outside runs and with Ridley/Vareen, plus screens. Brady didn't help by ignoring a couple of open receivers on 3rd and short. Knighton's game-ending sack probably doesn't happen if the Donkeys are respecting the run, drawn or screen, but we never game them that option and played right into their hands.

Zero pressure on Manning lost this game more than any other factor, but it doesn't bother me because your D-line wasn't much more than a worn-out C.Jones plus a bunch of borderline JAGs. Didn't have Spikes or Mayo to dial up any LB pressure or keep Manning guessing. Patricia had to resort to Corner and Safety blitzes and we got torched every time he did.

supafly · Jan 27, 2014

SVN said:
from today's chat

Chat: Chat with Mike Reiss - SportsNation - ESPN

I find it interesting that so many seem to be piling on Wendell (which I agree with on some level), but then in the same breath seem to ignore the fact that Connolly did not play well either throughout 2013, and was seen by the majority of fans and media to be the weakest link on the line in 2012 by far.

In other words yes, Wendell could use replacing, but I'm not as sure as some that Connolly doesn't too. He's now had 2 very sub-par seasons in a row, and is approaching a big cap hit for 2014. I'd rather see him stay for depth purposes, but he's going to need to get that cap hit down in order to do so.

It just seems like Connolly's problems are getting overlooked in this whole "chase Wendell out of town" thing, and that seems odd. The reality is that they both need upgrading, and that Connolly did not look good at all in 2012 OR 2013...

supafly · Jan 27, 2014

JMarr said:
Zero pressure on Manning lost this game more than any other factor, but it doesn't bother me because your D-line wasn't much more than a worn-out C.Jones plus a bunch of borderline JAGs. Didn't have Spikes or Mayo to dial up any LB pressure or keep Manning guessing. Patricia had to resort to Corner and Safety blitzes and we got torched every time he did.

Nice thoughts, JMarr. Due to Manning's ability to get rid of the ball so quickly to so many different weapons, the only real chance you ever have to get to him is by covering properly and forcing him to add an extra second/half second to his routine. Once Talib went down, any chances of that went right out the window.

Our secondary played pretty lousy last Sunday both individually, and as a whole. The defense itself looked very bad, aside from the fact that they were able to buckle down in the red zone a bit. Other than that, they were a joke, which is the same old thing during any big playoff loss these days.

During Brady's first 10 wins when he started 10-0 in the postseason, our defense was giving up about 17 pts a game. In Brady's last 8 postseason losses, the defense has given up points per game in the high 20's on average. Just look at the past 5. We're not going to win many (if any) games giving up point averages in the high 20's come Jan/Feb:

2009--BAL 33
2010--NYJ 28
2011--NYG 21
2012--BAL 28
2013--DEN 26

Sciz · Jan 27, 2014

Gronkandez said:
What is the consensus on Cannon? Can he be the starting RG going forward?

I'd say he's a candidate. It was a weird year for Cannon. When the RG was hurt (training camp/preseason), Cannon was also hurt. When the LG was playing LT, Cannon was playing RT. Because of all of that, we don't really know how good he'd be at guard. He appears to be a fine RT (less of a liability than the starting C and RG, for example), but I don't know if that'd translate to RG.

Personally, I'm opening up to the idea of Connolly getting a two year extension at at backup money (and lowering his cap hit by $1.4M by turning most of his salary into a signing bonus), with him entering the year as the clear backup to Cannon at RG, but obviously with the chance to earn that job back. There would appear to be some incentive to do that on Connolly's side, as he'd get his $3M guaranteed rather than being cut, coming off a bad year, and turning 32 before the season starts. That'd just leave a starting center, which can be found somewhere, although Mack is unrealistic, Dietrich-Smith is a guy who would be nice to have but isn't worth what it'd cost to pry him from GB, the other free agents are old, and the draft isn't exactly overflowing with center talent.

Pats lost battle of the trenches

28-3....

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

TB12

Eff you, Shula

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

PatsFans.com Supporter

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

Goodell sucks

Pro Bowl Player

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

In the Starting Line-Up

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

In the Starting Line-Up

Eff you, Shula

Eff you, Shula

PatsFans.com Supporter

Similar threads