And now pft takes a moment to acknowledge science AKA backpedals

stevedogc said:

Bingo! That's says it all right there. IF this is what the Pats did, then no penalty should come out of it. This is simply another way the Pats found a "loophole" in a rule and exploited it. If the NFL doesn't like it, change the rule.

And if any penalty comes from the NFL, then the Pats should appeal it. The balls were filled within the range the rule states.

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Agree..........the part of the statement released by the NFL on Friday which supports this is their hiring of a forensics investigator. Essentially the NFL will also seek a scientific explanation for the air pressure change of the 11 footballs.

robertweathers said:

The balls were at 12.5 PSI when the refs checked them.

At some point in time the balls went down in PSI after that time.

If Brady had nothing to do with the reduction in PSI, why should be be fined?

The NFL has a flawed operational process. Period.

Why should he pay a fine for a change when he had no involvement? Just so you can feel better?

@shemessy you are better than that.

This is worth fighting for.

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IF (and this is a big IF, no doubt) it comes out he knew or instructed the ball to be filled up in a sauna. It's like signing a legal contract with a disappearing ink pen.

Very simply - And it is the same for Saint Aaron and his ADMISSION of high pressure football sneaking:

I would give them each this slap on the wrist because, while technically legal, BOTH situations go against the intention of the rule. Both intentionally try to get a low Psi ball into play.

$25,000 fine and lumping him with Aaron Rodgers' situation is a message to the haters that while it is a violation of the rules intent (face it, the intent is to make sure the footballs WHILE IN PLAY are somewhat uniform pressure-wise) others - - including Saint Aaron - do it too. And that the NFL WILL change the verbiage of its rules in the future to close the loophole.

If anything RW, it allows the Patriots and Brady to get their reputation back quicker, because it shows
1) How small and petty the whole subject is and
2) Others, including Saint Aaron the do same, or similar, things. the Pats are no more evil than anyone else. The "high horse" haters will have to face that fact....and THAT is the worst outcome for them to admit to themselves.

****Remember the USFL damages from the NFL court ruling in the mid 1980's?
Yes THAT kind of message to the haters.

Rob0729 said:

That was my take as well.

Of course, back in the day this type of stuff was considered gamesmanship. Now it is the most horrible form of cheating imaginable.

Not to make excuses for the Patriots. But if this is what they did, I can't see how they can get in trouble for it (well, I can because the league wants to or even needs to drop the hammer on them, but they shouldn't be able to in this circumstance). Yes, you can argue it is sneaky and underhanded and treads the line, but I defy anyone to explain how it breaks the rules as they are written. Nowhere in the rules book does it say the balls have to a certain PSI at a certain temperature or that the balls need to be filled and stored at certain room temperature. They just need to be within a certain PSI level at inspection.

It is a loophole in the rule to gain an advantage, but it doesn't violate the letter of the law as it is written. At best you can say it violates the spirit of the law.

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I agree it wouldn't technically break the rule but I think it's still in the realm of conspiracy theory. If the team had a sauna and were pumping balls in it there are likely tons of witnesses, former and current employees, etc. Highly unlikely some marginal low wage employee doesn't sell that story for a fortune. I don't think the players really even think a 1 or 2 psi change is noticeable.

A combo of not caring about this stupid rule by refs and players, and cold weather seems far more likely to me.

Bobsyouruncle said:

I agree it wouldn't technically break the rule but I think it's still in the realm of conspiracy theory. If the team had a sauna and were pumping balls in it there are likely tons of witnesses, former and current employees, etc. Highly unlikely some marginal low wage employee doesn't sell that story for a fortune. I don't think the players really even think a 1 or 2 psi change is noticeable.

A combo of not caring about this stupid rule by refs and players, and cold weather seems far more likely to me.

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I am not saying the Pats did it. I am just saying if they did, I don't think it is actually cheating by the letter of the law. I do agree it is another wild conspiracy theory.

Personally, I wouldn't believe they did it this way because there is no control of how much the balls will deflate. They could deflate too much in this scenario.

Bobsyouruncle said:

If the team had a sauna and were pumping balls in it there are likely tons of witnesses, former and current employees, etc. Highly unlikely some marginal low wage employee doesn't sell that story for a fortune.

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That's why I said I bet this is an Erie Adams production, he won't talk. You don't need a dozen people to do this, once the environment is set up, one person can inflate 12 balls quickly.

Yes, this in line with most of the half-****ed theories I've been preaching to anyone who'd listen

all week. Not on here, mainly at work and bars! I figured the Patriots determined the exact time /

temperature to produce an accurate reading on weigh-in, but drop when exposed to the elements. And, as

they knew that nobody actually tampered with the balls once the refs claimed them, they had little to

fear. I failed most science classes in high school, so I am just wildly speculating - but I figured it was

them doing so on the initial weigh-in, and that there was no way they'd be stupid enough to manually

deflate them at any point.

I think this whole SUBJECT and INVESTIGATION is a bunch of hot air...

DefenseRules said:

Look at these fools. They were a bunch of ravenous dogs yesterday. Now they are all backpedaling. You all rushed to judgment without all the facts. They can all suck it. They are not to be trusted.

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The same can be said about some of our own fans.

When this is over, win or lose, I'm looking forward to going back and checking to see who was or wasn't on the side of our team. Here and in the media.

I have always been a fan of PTI with Kornheiser and Whilbon. I would tape each episode and watch every single one of them. I will never watch again. I'll probably write them a letter and let them know, which is something I have never done before either.

The time to fight back will be upon us soon.

Winter is coming.

shmessy said:

IF (and this is a big IF, no doubt) it comes out he knew or instructed the ball to be filled up in a sauna. It's like signing a legal contract with a disappearing ink pen.

Very simply - And it is the same for Saint Aaron and his ADMISSION of high pressure football sneaking:

I would give them each this slap on the wrist because, while technically legal, BOTH situations go against the intention of the rule. Both intentionally try to get a low Psi ball into play.

$25,000 fine and lumping him with Aaron Rodgers' situation is a message to the haters that while it is a violation of the rules intent (face it, the intent is to make sure the footballs WHILE IN PLAY are somewhat uniform pressure-wise) others - - including Saint Aaron - do it too. And that the NFL WILL change the verbiage of its rules in the future to close the loophole.

If anything RW, it allows the Patriots and Brady to get their reputation back quicker, because it shows
1) How small and petty the whole subject is and
2) Others, including Saint Aaron the do same, or similar, things. the Pats are no more evil than anyone else. The "high horse" haters will have to face that fact....and THAT is the worst outcome for them to admit to themselves.

****Remember the USFL damages from the NFL court ruling in the mid 1980's?
Yes THAT kind of message to the haters.

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Actually, fining both Brady and Rodgers the same three bucks (as in the USFL v NFL verdict) might be the best and most appropriate answer. it's up to the NFL to write clearer and more complete rules on it. (and to keep the balls during the game out of team custody).

shmessy said:

IF (and this is a big IF, no doubt) it comes out he knew or instructed the ball to be filled up in a sauna. It's like signing a legal contract with a disappearing ink pen.

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I would agree

shmessy said:

Very simply - And it is the same for Saint Aaron and his ADMISSION of high pressure football sneaking:

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Rodgers said that he likes the balls overinflated. He never said that he did it.

shmessy said:

I would give them each this slap on the wrist because, while technically legal, BOTH situations go against the intention of the rule. Both intentionally try to get a low Psi ball into play.

$25,000 fine and lumping him with Aaron Rodgers' situation is a message to the haters that while it is a violation of the rules intent (face it, the intent is to make sure the footballs WHILE IN PLAY are somewhat uniform pressure-wise) others - - including Saint Aaron - do it too. And that the NFL WILL change the verbiage of its rules in the future to close the loophole.

If anything RW, it allows the Patriots and Brady to get their reputation back quicker, because it shows
1) How small and petty the whole subject is and
2) Others, including Saint Aaron the do same, or similar, things. the Pats are no more evil than anyone else. The "high horse" haters will have to face that fact....and THAT is the worst outcome for them to admit to themselves..

Click to expand...

I understand your thoughts on exposing the mass-levels of corruption and bringing to like a multiude of guilty parties but I think that creates more questions around game and the NFL's credibility. They are better off saying that the game day crew experienced some process and communication issues and it was an isolated incident and will do everything it can to ensure these processes are enforced and better controls are put in place for all games so this doesn't happen again.

Patriots: NOT GUILTY

shmessy said:

****Remember the USFL damages from the NFL court ruling in the mid 1980's? Yes THAT kind of message to the haters.

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Not sure I follow the comparison. Trump messed that thing up.

BelichickFan said:

That's why I said I bet this is an Erie Adams production, he won't talk. You don't need a dozen people to do this, once the environment is set up, one person can inflate 12 balls quickly.

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He would still have to get the balls from the equipment people. And there's a time factor. They would have to come out of the sauna and to the refs for checking in like 10-20 minutes. If he's doing it himself? 24 footballs, he needs like a giant laundry cart. Unless he has a Sauna in his office he needs to clear the locker room out so nobody sees him or more witnesses.

I just don't see some dude sitting in a sauna with 24 footballs. Or anyone taking those balls and doing a dash to the refs on the off chance they check them fast enough for the temp to make a difference. The more I think about it the more ludicrous it sounds. Somebody would notice this, or at the very least there's witnesses of an executive taking all the game balls ever Sunday, disappearing into a lair then returning. I think it's pretty far fetched.

If the Patriots inflated their ball to the minimum pre-game as the rule commands, then what the pressure is at during half-time is irrelevant unless the league can prove human tampering.

It WILL by some of the most basic physics there is, physics that has been around almost 200 years, no longer pass inspection if there is a 30 degree change in temperature of the air inside the ball. Which we believe there was. But, when has the league gauged at halftime? Is that normal?

The Patriots should not be punished in this situation. It's becoming clear to me the NFL went in assuming guilt and ignored basic science as a reasonable explanation. Patriots cannot be held accountable for the NFL not being explicit.

Re: That USFL v. NFL verdict way back when.

The one and only visual I remember from that whole thing is the epic Tank McNamara carton the next day.

It was simply a drawing of a closed door with "NFL" written on it.

Several quote balloons were emanating from behind that door:

"Anybody got a pen? I wanna sign it!!!"(giggle.giggle)

"Not before I sign it first!" (giggle, giggle)

"Ok, here it goes......'Pay ...to...the...order....(giggle).....of ....the...United.....(giggle)....States......Football.....(guffaw).....League......Three....dollars.......(chuckle)....... and.......zero........cents (uncontrollable laughter).

Why don't they fill the footballs with nitrogen, I believe nitrogen isn't affected by temp

robertweathers said:

I understand your thoughts on exposing the mass-levels of corruption and bringing to like a multiude of guilty parties but I think that creates more questions around game and the NFL's credibility.

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Really?

THAT horse, Robert, has already left the barn awhile ago.

The NFL needs to close the gray areas in its badly written rules and gain back its credibility.

If the sauna theory holds any water (er...air?) the rule will likely be rewritten that the balls must be inflated and inspected in the same environment where the game will be played to ensure stable air pressure measurements.

BradfordPatsFan said:

If the sauna theory holds any water (er...air?) the rule will likely be rewritten that the balls must be inflated and inspected in the same environment where the game will be played to ensure stable air pressure measurements.

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Makes too much sense

BradfordPatsFan said:

If the sauna theory holds any water (er...air?) the rule will likely be rewritten that the balls must be inflated and inspected in the same environment where the game will be played to ensure stable air pressure measurements.

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One would think so......

Does anyone really think that any of these knuckle-dragging haters are actually going to consider any theory based upon SCIENCE?? Come on...

It doesn't have to be a sauna, that's some PFT gross exaggeration to try to continue the "cheating" storyline. Probably any area that's warm (upper 70's maybe?) would be more than sufficient. These media people aren't going to back off their predetermination that a massive conspiracy is at work here, it's the only justification they have for the nightmare they created.
If the same scenario is applied to the Raven's game the effect could have been even more pronounced since it was much colder that night. There's no rules broken, but some very simple changes to the rules can take the variability out of it pretty easily.