Who's Boston best GM now??

BradyFTW! said:

You also can't hold Minnesota's pick against the Celtics, since it's Minnesota's pick.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The Celtics traded it back to Minnesota.

Also, most people in the league aren't 100% sold on Beasley's or Mayo's work ethic, not to mention that there's never any guarantee that your pick is going to wind up in the top 3 anyways.

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Well, Minnesota had the 3rd worst record. They ended up picking 3rd, so...

That's still a good pick.

NEPatriot said:

Celtics need to win this NBA champtionship FIRST. Lakers is too good right now.

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Yes they is

Lifer said:

It used to be Belichick (with help from Pioli) hands down. Look at the organization they have built. But long term, once Brady goes......
Look what Theo Epstein is building.
And for one year, has any GM done a better job than Danny Ainge?????

We are very blessed indeed.

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Um, not much insult to Ainge, but his strategy was to get a top two pick. If successful he'd have Odum. The best thing for him was getting lucky by not getting lucky.

The new big three could have picked any old team, but luckily we had a high draft pick to trade and one under contract.

Skill was not required. Heck, skill luckily was taken out of it by a bad draw at the draft.
Oh, as for the Sox, um, being the #2 salary team...

castlelong1 said:

Um, not much insult to Ainge, but his strategy was to get a top two pick. If successful he'd have Odum. The best thing for him was getting lucky by not getting lucky.

The new big three could have picked any old team, but luckily we had a high draft pick to trade and one under contract.

Skill was not required. Heck, skill luckily was taken out of it by a bad draw at the draft.

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Well, this is a fair point, but at the same time, where would this Pats org. be had luck not played its part when the brass took a flyer by drafting Brady. That really wasn't all skill or strategy though both attributes played a role as did luck.

Said this, I agree with the other posters who've stated that the Celtics need to beat the Lakers, and even then, Ainge would still rank 3rd.

patriotspride said:

thats a tough choice. i would have to go with Danny. its unbelievably hard to rebuild a nba franchise. you have to be good and lucky at the same time. the giants won a sb with eli freakin manning. the pats will be good even when Brady is gone as long as bb and pioli are still there.

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For the same reasons I'd say Belichicik...the NBA is incredbily watered down compared to 20 years ago, and no one disputes that there's little talent to be found past the 1st round if one is lucky in basketball.

Add to that the NBA's previous infatuation with drafting players out of high school based on potential only, and a 12 -15 man roster that has such players taking up space, and the NBA can be considered even MORE watered down.

Add to that the fact that the players themselves have a huge determination on where they will be traded - i.e. KG refused to play here until he felt there was a better shot at a title - and you have to discount the role of the GM even more.

All that being said, Ainge has made some good draft choices - finding players in the 2nd round etc... and made some good moves via trade (as well as bad ones) and deserves credit for this turnaround...

But you have to give a lot of credit to shere good luck as well - not to mention the good will of KG to agree to play here.

I'll give the tip of the cap to Beliichick who consistently finds good middle class players among a very competitive league and has created an environment where other players very much want to come here in free agency.

This team has been pretty dominant since '01, and longevity is the key.. winning 3 SB's and being a consistent winner does it for me, Pioli and Belichick have proven themselves well.

Second has to be Epstein, to maintain the high level of play and take the risks he did is commendable.

Third, Ainge, we will talk more after he has won a couple and stays competitive.

there is no wrong answer. they have all done a great job with there teams. i just think nba is much harder to build a team. there is to much luck involved good and bad. the big difference between the nba and the nfl is the nba players contracts are guaranteed. if you f up as a gm your stuck with a bad contract for years

Given that Theo doesn't have to play with an even field and still hasn't won as often as Belioli, I rule him out.

Since I don't think that Ainge is a very good GM, at all, and see him more as a poor GM who just caught a couple of huge breaks, I rule him out.

That leaves Belioli at the top.

upstater1 said:

Well, Minnesota had the 3rd worst record. They ended up picking 3rd, so...

That's still a good pick.

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What I meant was that, if the trade hadn't been made, the pick most definitely would not have been #3. Sorry, should have been more clear. They wouldn't have been good, but with Garnett on the team it's hard to believe that the pick would have been in the top 10.

Deus Irae said:

Since I don't think that Ainge is a very good GM, at all, and see him more as a poor GM who just caught a couple of huge break.

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hilarious . you obviously don't follow the Celtics. i keep forgetting there are a lot of little kids on this board now.

patriotspride said:

hilarious . you obviously don't follow the Celtics. i keep forgetting there are a lot of little kids on this board now.

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I'm not going to go down this road with you over the Celtics GM. Your opinion and mine clearly differ. Such is life. Have a nice day.

I still say it is Belichick/Pioli by a landslide. They have built a dynasty in an era where people thought dynasties were impossible.

The Celts haven't won anything and we aren't sure even if they do if this is going to be more than a one or two year thing.

Theo has done a lot of good things, but some of his best moves have been the ones he screwed up or didn't come together. If the Players' union allowed ARod to give back some of his salary, the Red Sox may have been still talking about 1918. Add the fact that other than the Yankees, the Red Sox have more money to play with than any other team in the league.

Kevin McHale. If he wasn't such an awful GM, there's no way the Celts are in the Finals now.

Let's clarify one point. The Red Sox are #4 in payroll this year.
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/salaries

Even if the C's win it all I'd have to hold off on declaring Ainge the top GM. If Rondo and Perkins/Davis turn in to top players in a few years then I'll put him near the top. If KG/Allen/Pierce are washed up or gone in 2 years and there are no young players to step up then we can say it was a great run but Pioli/BB have built for the future in just about every way an NFL team can and still remain at the top.

dhamz said:

2 - Epstein. 2 titles for a franchise that had none since the teens speaks for itself. The lack of payroll limits clearly help him but sighting that as the only reason is overly simplistic. The Yankees are spending much more with less success. He has changed the entire philosophy of the organization from hitting to pitching and brought more young talent through the farm system (Youk, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Buckholtz, Delcarmen with Hanson, Lowrie, Masterson and others knocking on the door) to help the team than anyone since the 70s and that doesn't include Hanley Ramirez who he traded for an elite #1 starter.

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Part of Epstein's success comes from having won in '04 (and '07 of course). Having won the world Series, there wasn't the the urgency of 'trade to win it this year' by trading prospects. That allowed them to develop the prospects you mentioned without trading them for over the hill guys midseason. Anybody remember Bagwell for Larry Anderson?? nuf said....
Though there is the occasional Murphy for Gagne lapse.......

Rob0729 said:

I still say it is Belichick/Pioli by a landslide. They have built a dynasty in an era where people thought dynasties were impossible.

The Celts haven't won anything and we aren't sure even if they do if this is going to be more than a one or two year thing.

Theo has done a lot of good things, but some of his best moves have been the ones he screwed up or didn't come together. If the Players' union allowed ARod to give back some of his salary, the Red Sox may have been still talking about 1918. Add the fact that other than the Yankees, the Red Sox have more money to play with than any other team in the league.

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Agree 100%.

I think there is still a wide gap between Belioli and Epstein. If Belioli made the same number and size mistakes as Epstein the franchise would never be even .500. Further Epstein gets way too much credit. Larry Luchino is the real brains between the organization philosophy and marketing guru that gives them the money for Theo to blow on numerous free agents until someone sticks. Ben Cherington is the one responsible for finding/drafting/signing all the guys in the farm system, which is the real strength of the team. So if someone is going to compare Belioli to Theo it isn't even close. Compare Belioli to Luchino/Epstein/Cherington then you are talking much closer.

Patsfanin Philly said:

Part of Epstein's success comes from having won in '04 (and '07 of course). Having won the world Series, there wasn't the the urgency of 'trade to win it this year' by trading prospects. That allowed them to develop the prospects you mentioned without trading them for over the hill guys midseason. Anybody remember Bagwell for Larry Anderson?? nuf said....
Though there is the occasional Murphy for Gagne lapse.......

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There is no denying winning in 04 allowed them to implement their long range plan.

There is also no denying that in Epstein's tenure they can do it this way because they actully have guys coming though the farm system to do it with. There are actual pitching talents in the farm system. Between the mid 80s Clemens/Hurst/Oil Can Boyd/Al Nipper development and the current group of Papelbon/Lester/Buckholtz/Masterson the only home grown pitching prospects of note were....Sele?....Pavano?...Pathetic.

BradyFTW! said:

Still Pioli. Ainge was very lucky to have Garnett fall into his lap (to be fair, at least half of being an NBA GM is luck), and Epstein merged A's-style intelligence with a Yankees-style payroll (not a small t, by any stretch, but nothing like winning multiple super bowls under a salary cap)

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Fall into his lap? Ainge probably started negotiating that trade last season. He also stuck to his guns in not letting Rhondo be one of the players. The reason why Danny was able to make the trade is because he drafted wisely while not having low picks. In basketball, if you do not have a low #1, you'll never produce a Hall of Famer.

castlelong1 said:

Um, not much insult to Ainge, but his strategy was to get a top two pick. If successful he'd have Odum. The best thing for him was getting lucky by not getting lucky.

The new big three could have picked any old team, but luckily we had a high draft pick to trade and one under contract.

Skill was not required. Heck, skill luckily was taken out of it by a bad draw at the draft.
Oh, as for the Sox, um, being the #2 salary team...

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for ainge to even have a chance at garnett or any big name player he had to dump contracts years before. then he had to draft al jefferson and make a trade for ray allen. garnett didnt want to come to boston until ainge made the trade for ray allen. no al jefferson or ray allen no kevin garnett. ainge planed for both getting the number one pick and not getting a top three pick last year. luck had nothing to do with it. good gms have plan b and c ect ect