LaMont Jordan signed, Robert Ortiz waived

[JSn]

Finally read up on Jordan. Sounds like a guy ready to break out.

I think we need to realize solid guys often suck on bad teams and become stars in good systems. Thinking of that, it's hard to rule anyone out.

Our record setting QB was drafted at 199 for Heaven's sake.

I like the idea of Maroney, Morris, Jordan, Faulk, Evans.

Plus, if they cut him I can't update Madden. I ruin the competition with passes to Evans and Watson. Seriously. hehe

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter reports Pats sign LaMont Jordan

I'd have to go back and check Reiss' data from last season, but there more FB/HB formations than you'd think, especially on the goal line.

And I can't remember the Pats using a non-FB as a lead blocker since Evans has been around. Both Klecko and Seymour were injured doing just that in 2004 (and apparently Seymour still isn't too happy about it), so I think the Pats have strayed away from doing that like they used to.

Pats 1 -
On different occasions, they have had Hochstein, Gorin, Kaczur, Seau, and Ashworth be a lead blocker out of the backfield in the Red Zone where Evans doesn't seem to do a great job.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well he wouldn't exactly have a big role behind Bush, McAllister, and Stecker in New Orleans, either.

Jordan is better than Stecker. Also, McAllister's knee is in question already. The likelihood of him getting playing time there was much better than here. Especially since Reggie Bush has proven he can't carry a team.

 

[DaBruinz]

Also remember that, until the end of last year, alot of people were seriously questioning whether Maroney was a total bust, much less if he is a legitimate starting RB in the NFL. How quickly we forget.

Many were wondering if he was in BB's doghouse, or injured, at times during the pass-happy regular season. We still don't know for sure. It's not out of the question that BB still wants to put heat on Maroney--yet another reason for bringing in someone like Jordon.

The people who were doing the questioning were the ignorant who refused to understand the game planning aspects during the 4 game stretch in which the Pats passed the ball significantly more than they ran it. Of course, it was also against 4 of the top 10 rushing defenses, but that was supposedly just as excuse.

Sorry, but BB doesn't need to put heat on Maroney.

 

[pats1]

Most NFL teams have 4 RB's and at least 1 FB, the team we played last season in the SB has 2 FB's (39 M. Hedge****, 24 R. Douglas) and 4 RB's (27 B. Jacobs, 34 D. Ward, 44 A. Bradshaw, 22 R. Droughns). Only Bradshaw plays teams, he returns. BTW, Faulk and Jordan can return for us.

No, not really. Here's what teams had on their active rosters to end last season (be it Week 17 or a playoff game). Keep in mind that a lot of these teams use the FB a lot more than the Pats do, and thus require a 2nd FB (the lack of which doesn't mean a 4th RB can be carried, since that brings less value than a 2nd FB would, unless you're running a 2 RB set instead of a 1 RB/1 FB set). Also, you might notice how some of the 3rd and 4th RBs (they're listed in depth chart order) are more kick returners than backs - like Mahe, Sproles, and Scobey.

BUF: 4 RBs (Lynch, Wright, F. Jackson, S. Williams), 2 H-Backs (Neufeld, Massaqoui)
MIA: 4 RBs (Chatman, Cobbs, Booker, Gado), 1 FB (Mauia)
NE: 2 RBs (Maroney, Faulk), 2 FBs (Evans, Eckel)
NYJ: 2 RBs (T. Jones, L. Washington), 1 H-Back (Kowalewski)

BAL: 4 RBs (McGahee, M. Smith, M. Anderson, C. Ross), 2 FBs (McClain, J. Green)
CIN: 3 RBs (R. Johnson, K. Watson, Q. Wilson), 1 FB (J. Johnson)
CLE: 3 RBs (J. Lewis, J. Wright, J. Harrison), 2 FBs (Vickers, Ali)
PIT: 3 RBs (Davenport, G. Russell, V. Haynes), 1 FB (C. Davis)

HOU: 2 RBs (Dayne, D. Walker), 2 FBs (Leach, Cook)
IND: 3 RBs (Addai, Keith, Dawson), 1 FB (Lawton)
JAC: 3 RBs (Taylor, Jones-Drew, Toefield), 2 FBs (G. Jones, M. Owens)
TEN: 3 RBs (L. White, C. Brown, C. Henry), 2 FBs (Cramer, A. Hall)

DEN: 3 RBs (T. Henry, S. Young, A. Hall), 3 FBs (C. Sapp, P. Smith, M. Bell)
KC: 2 RBs (K. Smith, J. Battle), 3 FBs (K. Wilson, Grigsby, G. Harris)
OAK: 2 RBs (Rhodes, Jordan), 2 FBs (Griffith, O. O'Neal)
SD: 3 RBs (Tomlinson, M. Turner, Sproles), 2 FBs (Pinnock, L. Neal)

DAL: 3 RBs (J. Jones, Barber, T. Thompson), 1 FB (Hoyte)
NYG: 4 RBs (Jacobs, Droughns, Bradshaw, Ware), 1 FB (Hedge****)
PHI: 4 RBs (Westbrook, Buckhalter, T. Hunt, Mahe), 1 FB (Tapeh)
WAS: 3 RBs (Portis, Betts, Cartwright), 1 H-Back (Sellers)

CHI: 2 RBs (A. Peterson, Wolfe), 2 FBs (McKie, Polite)
DET: 4 RBs (K. Jones, Duckett, T. Bell, A. Cason), 2 FBs (J. Bradley, Fitzsimmons)
GB: 3 RBs (R. Grant, Morency, B. Jackson), 2 FB (K. Hall, Kuhn)
MIN: 3 RBs (A. Peterson, C. Taylor, M. Moore), 3 FBs (T. Richardson, Dugan, Tahi)

ATL: 3 RBs (Dunn, Norwood, Snelling), 2 FBs (Mughelli, McIntyre)
CAR: 3 RBs (Foster, D. Williams, A. Haynes), 1 FB (Hoover)
NO: 4 RBs (Bush, P. Thomas, Stecker, Barclay), 1 FB (Karney)
TB: 4 RBs (Graham, Bennett, Pitman, Darby), 2 FBs (Askew, Storer)

AZ: 3 RBs (E. James, Shipp, Arrington), 2 FBs (T. Smith, Castille)
SF: 3 RBs (Gore, Hicks, M. Robinson), 2 FBs (Norris, Keasey)
SEA: 3 RBs (S. Alexander, M. Morris, Scobey), 2 FBs (Weaver, Kirtman)
STL: 3 RBs (Jackson, A. Pittman, Alexis), 2 FBs (Leonard, R. Owens)

 

[pats1]

Re: Adam Schefter reports Pats sign LaMont Jordan

Pats 1 -
On different occasions, they have had Hochstein, Gorin, Kaczur, Seau, and Ashworth be a lead blocker out of the backfield in the Red Zone where Evans doesn't seem to do a great job.

I've seen Hochstein, Gorin, Kaczur, and Ashworth all as a 3rd OT position, but not as a FB/lead blocker. And the times when Seau was lead blocking, IIRC, it was usually part of a route combination with Vrabel at TE.

 

[pats1]

Jordan was a devastating 3rd down back for the Jets with Cumar. That's the role for which he's best suited. he got his cash from oakland, and now he wants to win again. Assuming the back is OK, he can approximate a Kevin Faulk type role going forward.

I also think the Pats intend to rely more on the ground game this season, and they are anticipating the need for an extra rb with a pulse, someone a notch or two above roster filling FBs like Eckel or the Evans.

The problem is, they already have a Faulk to be a Faulk. They already have a Morris to be a Morris. They already have a Maroney to be a Maroney. They already have an Evans to be an Evans.

I'm not saying that Jordan isn't a quality back, I simply don't think he fits into the puzzle here.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter reports Pats sign LaMont Jordan

I've seen Hochstein, Gorin, Kaczur, and Ashworth all as a 3rd OT position, but not as a FB/lead blocker. And the times when Seau was lead blocking, IIRC, it was usually part of a route combination with Vrabel at TE.

Seau wasn't always blocking as part of a route combination. There were a few times where the route to Vrabel was a fake and they handed off to the RB with Seau leading the way.

Also, I can remember Hochstein lining up as a 3 TE, going in motion and them plowing into the C/RG gap to try and open a hole on several occasions. Same with the others. They weren't always in there as a 3rd OT.

 

[pats1]

Re: Adam Schefter reports Pats sign LaMont Jordan

Seau wasn't always blocking as part of a route combination. There were a few times where the route to Vrabel was a fake and they handed off to the RB with Seau leading the way.

Also, I can remember Hochstein lining up as a 3 TE, going in motion and them plowing into the C/RG gap to try and open a hole on several occasions. Same with the others. They weren't always in there as a 3rd OT.

Well there isn't much of a difference between a 3rd OT and a TE. I wouldn't exactly consider them lead blockers, unless they are completely free on the line and can get into the second level, which is unlikely.

 

[spacecrime]

No, not really. Here's what teams had on their active rosters to end last season (be it Week 17 or a playoff game). Keep in mind that a lot of these teams use the FB a lot more than the Pats do, and thus require a 2nd FB (the lack of which doesn't mean a 4th RB can be carried, since that brings less value than a 2nd FB would, unless you're running a 2 RB set instead of a 1 RB/1 FB set). Also, you might notice how some of the 3rd and 4th RBs (they're listed in depth chart order) are more kick returners than backs - like Mahe, Sproles, and Scobey.

BUF: 4 RBs (Lynch, Wright, F. Jackson, S. Williams), 2 H-Backs (Neufeld, Massaqoui)
MIA: 4 RBs (Chatman, Cobbs, Booker, Gado), 1 FB (Mauia)
NE: 2 RBs (Maroney, Faulk), 2 FBs (Evans, Eckel)
NYJ: 2 RBs (T. Jones, L. Washington), 1 H-Back (Kowalewski)

BAL: 4 RBs (McGahee, M. Smith, M. Anderson, C. Ross), 2 FBs (McClain, J. Green)
CIN: 3 RBs (R. Johnson, K. Watson, Q. Wilson), 1 FB (J. Johnson)
CLE: 3 RBs (J. Lewis, J. Wright, J. Harrison), 2 FBs (Vickers, Ali)
PIT: 3 RBs (Davenport, G. Russell, V. Haynes), 1 FB (C. Davis)

HOU: 2 RBs (Dayne, D. Walker), 2 FBs (Leach, Cook)
IND: 3 RBs (Addai, Keith, Dawson), 1 FB (Lawton)
JAC: 3 RBs (Taylor, Jones-Drew, Toefield), 2 FBs (G. Jones, M. Owens)
TEN: 3 RBs (L. White, C. Brown, C. Henry), 2 FBs (Cramer, A. Hall)

DEN: 3 RBs (T. Henry, S. Young, A. Hall), 3 FBs (C. Sapp, P. Smith, M. Bell)
KC: 2 RBs (K. Smith, J. Battle), 3 FBs (K. Wilson, Grigsby, G. Harris)
OAK: 2 RBs (Rhodes, Jordan), 2 FBs (Griffith, O. O'Neal)
SD: 3 RBs (Tomlinson, M. Turner, Sproles), 2 FBs (Pinnock, L. Neal)

DAL: 3 RBs (J. Jones, Barber, T. Thompson), 1 FB (Hoyte)
NYG: 4 RBs (Jacobs, Droughns, Bradshaw, Ware), 1 FB (Hedge****)
PHI: 4 RBs (Westbrook, Buckhalter, T. Hunt, Mahe), 1 FB (Tapeh)
WAS: 3 RBs (Portis, Betts, Cartwright), 1 H-Back (Sellers)

CHI: 2 RBs (A. Peterson, Wolfe), 2 FBs (McKie, Polite)
DET: 4 RBs (K. Jones, Duckett, T. Bell, A. Cason), 2 FBs (J. Bradley, Fitzsimmons)
GB: 3 RBs (R. Grant, Morency, B. Jackson), 2 FB (K. Hall, Kuhn)
MIN: 3 RBs (A. Peterson, C. Taylor, M. Moore), 3 FBs (T. Richardson, Dugan, Tahi)

ATL: 3 RBs (Dunn, Norwood, Snelling), 2 FBs (Mughelli, McIntyre)
CAR: 3 RBs (Foster, D. Williams, A. Haynes), 1 FB (Hoover)
NO: 4 RBs (Bush, P. Thomas, Stecker, Barclay), 1 FB (Karney)
TB: 4 RBs (Graham, Bennett, Pitman, Darby), 2 FBs (Askew, Storer)

AZ: 3 RBs (E. James, Shipp, Arrington), 2 FBs (T. Smith, Castille)
SF: 3 RBs (Gore, Hicks, M. Robinson), 2 FBs (Norris, Keasey)
SEA: 3 RBs (S. Alexander, M. Morris, Scobey), 2 FBs (Weaver, Kirtman)
STL: 3 RBs (Jackson, A. Pittman, Alexis), 2 FBs (Leonard, R. Owens)

Way too much time on your hands (don't tell me you did this from MEMORY )

 

[DaBruinz]

No, not really. Here's what teams had on their active rosters to end last season (be it Week 17 or a playoff game). Keep in mind that a lot of these teams use the FB a lot more than the Pats do, and thus require a 2nd FB (the lack of which doesn't mean a 4th RB can be carried, since that brings less value than a 2nd FB would, unless you're running a 2 RB set instead of a 1 RB/1 FB set). Also, you might notice how some of the 3rd and 4th RBs (they're listed in depth chart order) are more kick returners than backs - like Mahe, Sproles, and Scobey.

BUF: 4 RBs (Lynch, Wright, F. Jackson, S. Williams), 2 H-Backs (Neufeld, Massaqoui)
MIA: 4 RBs (Chatman, Cobbs, Booker, Gado), 1 FB (Mauia)
NE: 2 RBs (Maroney, Faulk), 2 FBs (Evans, Eckel)
NYJ: 2 RBs (T. Jones, L. Washington), 1 H-Back (Kowalewski)

BAL: 4 RBs (McGahee, M. Smith, M. Anderson, C. Ross), 2 FBs (McClain, J. Green)
CIN: 3 RBs (R. Johnson, K. Watson, Q. Wilson), 1 FB (J. Johnson)
CLE: 3 RBs (J. Lewis, J. Wright, J. Harrison), 2 FBs (Vickers, Ali)
PIT: 3 RBs (Davenport, G. Russell, V. Haynes), 1 FB (C. Davis)

HOU: 2 RBs (Dayne, D. Walker), 2 FBs (Leach, Cook)
IND: 3 RBs (Addai, Keith, Dawson), 1 FB (Lawton)
JAC: 3 RBs (Taylor, Jones-Drew, Toefield), 2 FBs (G. Jones, M. Owens)
TEN: 3 RBs (L. White, C. Brown, C. Henry), 2 FBs (Cramer, A. Hall)

DEN: 3 RBs (T. Henry, S. Young, A. Hall), 3 FBs (C. Sapp, P. Smith, M. Bell)
KC: 2 RBs (K. Smith, J. Battle), 3 FBs (K. Wilson, Grigsby, G. Harris)
OAK: 2 RBs (Rhodes, Jordan), 2 FBs (Griffith, O. O'Neal)
SD: 3 RBs (Tomlinson, M. Turner, Sproles), 2 FBs (Pinnock, L. Neal)

DAL: 3 RBs (J. Jones, Barber, T. Thompson), 1 FB (Hoyte)
NYG: 4 RBs (Jacobs, Droughns, Bradshaw, Ware), 1 FB (Hedge****)
PHI: 4 RBs (Westbrook, Buckhalter, T. Hunt, Mahe), 1 FB (Tapeh)
WAS: 3 RBs (Portis, Betts, Cartwright), 1H-Back (Sellers, )

CHI: 2RBs (A. Peterson, Wolfe), 2 FBs (McKie, Polite)
DET: 4 RBs (K. Jones, Duckett, T. Bell, A. Cason), 2 FBs (J. Bradley, Fitzsimmons)
GB: 3 RBs (R. Grant, Morency, B. Jackson), 2 FB (K. Hall, Kuhn)
MIN: 3 RBs (A. Peterson, C. Taylor, M. Moore), 3 FBs (T. Richardson, Dugan, Tahi)

ATL: 3 RBs (Dunn, Norwood, Snelling), 2 FBs (Mughelli, McIntyre)
CAR: 3 RBs (Foster, D. Williams, A. Haynes), 1 FB (Hoover)
NO: 4 RBs (Bush, P. Thomas, Stecker, Barclay), 1 FB (Karney)
TB: 4 RBs (Graham, Bennett, Pitman, Darby), 2 FBs (Askew, Storer)

AZ: 3 RBs (E. James, Shipp, Arrington), 2 FBs (T. Smith, Castille)
SF: 3 RBs (Gore, Hicks, M. Robinson), 2 FBs (Norris, Keasey)
SEA: 3 RBs (S. Alexander, M. Morris, Scobey), 2 FBs (Weaver, Kirtman)
STL: 3 RBs (Jackson, A. Pittman, Alexis), 2 FBs (Leonard, R. Owens)

Pat1 - By my count, you list 21 teams that ended the season with 5 spots to the RB/FB spot. That is 65.6% of the league. That is a lot. So, while you may not see the Pats carrying a combination of 5 RBs/FBs, many of us can because acknowledge the versatility of someone like Morris. And while Morris did make a competant #2 back and very good #1 when he filled in we acknowledge that he has a lot of special teams experience from his time in Buffalo and in Miami.

 

[cstjohn17]

The problem is, they already have a Faulk to be a Faulk. They already have a Morris to be a Morris. They already have a Maroney to be a Maroney. They already have an Evans to be an Evans.

I'm not saying that Jordan isn't a quality back, I simply don't think he fits into the puzzle here.

Nice job with the breakdown of RB/FB, if you are really demented you could take a look at those lists to see how many groups lost one of their top 2 RBs. My guess is that most groups lost at least one of them for a considerable stretch.

I would also guess that it is better than 50/50 that one of the Patriots top 3 RBs will miss 5+ games or end up on IR. Jordan seems like a great pickup, if he can play on special teams (Gunner, Kick coverage and kick returns) then it is a no brainer to keep him on the 53, provided he is healthy. If he can't contribute on special teams then he becomes one of the last cuts once the health of the other 3 is assured.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adam Schefter reports Pats sign LaMont Jordan

Well there isn't much of a difference between a 3rd OT and a TE. I wouldn't exactly consider them lead blockers, unless they are completely free on the line and can get into the second level, which is unlikely.

When you are in the goal-line package, there is no second level. And the lead blocker on an inside run in that situation has the job of getting into the hole and keeping it open for the RB behind him. On the Outside run, its to either pick up anyone who may have gotten through or to tie up the defensive edge setter so the RB can either cut up or go around.

Whichever is the case, there is no 2nd level.

 

[jmt57]

I think this is a great addition, for any of several reasons. At the absolute minimum, as mentioned earlier, Jordan is another body for reps in TC that helps keep the other RBs fresh and healthy. I'll be very interested in seeing how this plays out.

Jordan vs Morris
Jordan is a year younger but has taken a lot more hits over his career than Morris. Morris gets a check mark due to special teams, but Jordan is better out of the backfield catching passes.

Jordan vs Faulk
Faulk is the ultimate third down back, but Jordan adds verstility by being a more legitimate 1st and 2nd down back if Maroney needs a breather or misses a game or two due to injury.

Jordan vs Evans
Evans gets a check mark as a FB, but Jordan can step in as needed to replace either Maroney or Faulk.

Jordan vs Player At Another Position
Jordan adds depth and versatility at a position that is the target of every member of the opponent's defense, which results in injuries being common at the RB position. If an additional RB is kept on the roster, that means that the same amount of depth and versatility is taken away from another position - and special teams, too.

 

[PATRIOT64]

This signing proves my earlier views months ago that this will be a more closer run to pass ratio than in 2007 and signing this very good RB for depth was a good move.

I expect more grind em out games this season than 30-50 points a game like last year.

I also wonder if the team is not too sure Morris will be back at full strength or even close to it since his injury was pretty serious.

 

[patchick]

No, not really. Here's what teams had on their active rosters to end last season (be it Week 17 or a playoff game).

Interesting numbers, thanks for putting in the time! To summarize, here's the breakdown of how many teams carried how many total RBs+FBs:

Total Number of Teams
6 6
5 15
4 10
3 1

That puts the average number of backs per team at 4.8, with 8 teams fielding 4 or more pure RBs. (It's also possible that those numbers are skewed a bit low because they're end-of-season numbers at an injury-prone position.)

Clearly, it would NOT be out of the ordinary overall for a team to field a 4-1 backfield roster. It would, of course, be out of the ordinary for the Patriots based on recent history. But given their recent commitment to a 2-man RB rotation it makes some sense...and given their pursuit of a guy like Jordan, it seems positively likely, UNLESS they've lost faith in Morris.

 

[Deus Irae]

This signing proves my earlier views months ago that this will be a more closer run to pass ratio than in 2007 and signing this very good RB for depth was a good move.

I expect more grind em out games this season than 30-50 points a game like last year.

I also wonder if the team is not too sure Morris will be back at full strength or even close to it since his injury was pretty serious.

I don't expect more grind out games at all, especially given the schedule. What I think we might see more of is Moss and Brady on the sidelines early if games are out of hand.

Of course, time will tell.

 

[Rob0729]

I think the fact that the Pats signed Jordan and have been looking at a lot of backs over the offseason (mostly bigger guys who can be a goalline and short yardage power runners), the Pats have little faith in Sammy Morris in rebounding. Jordan is a smashmouth downhill runner. He is basically the same type of back that Morris was for the Patriots last year.

If Jordan makes the final 53 man roster, I think Morris has about a 20-30% chance of doing the same (I think the only way Morris makes the team is if they don't think they will need the $1.2 million in cap room saved by cutting him). Jordan when healthy was a much better back than Morris is. You gotta think though how much the Pats looked for a Morris replacement and quickly scooped up Jordan that Morris is going to have play his way onto the 53 man roster this preseason, not play his way off.

 

[pats1]

Way too much time on your hands (don't tell me you did this from MEMORY )

No, but my record keeping would have made the Nazis envious.

 

[PonyExpress]

I've actually decided we can just whack Evans and Eckel. We'll have enough RB with Kool Aid, Morris, Jordan and Faulk; Morris and Jordan can block enough for the limited blocking role our FB have and we added several ST players who can pick up what's lost there.

I'm a bit hesitant to toss Evans, because he seems like such a good "glue guy". Sometimes having a guy like that helps the other guys get through the grind of the season and develops camaraderie, like a "Kevin Millar" type. Eckel i'd just as soon dump.