Lots of believers on this team...

[The Brandon Five]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgWOcYpHm0o
Jeremy Camp Walk by Faith


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvpLgTLdPYM
Jeremy was at last Year's Tim Tebow celebrity gala and performed.

Read about Jeremy Camp from wiki below.
Jeremy Camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now you're talking. I like all kinds of music but when it comes to worship I dig Hillsong:

Take Heart - Hillsong United - Lyrics [HD] - YouTube

Hillsong UNITED Oceans (Where Feet May Fail) Lyric Video - YouTube

Hillsong United - Hosanna

 

[SalemPats]

Sorry, the fantasy is that reason is infallible and without limits.

Gödel's incompleteness theorems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-The bible says Noah lived until the age of 950 years old and was 500 years when he started his Noah Ark journey
-Genesis 32 - God has a wrestling match with Jacob, and loses
-Ezekiel 4: 11 - Ezekiel is told to lie on one side for 390 days and to cook his food using human excremen
-Matthew 21:19 Jesus curses a fig tree for being baron (i just love that one)

Sorry I'm laughing at this while i'm writing it, but it's in the bible. I hope you don't actually believe this

 

[oldrover]

-The bible says Noah lived until the age of 950 years old and was 500 years when he started his Noah Ark journey
-Genesis 32 - God has a wrestling match with Jacob, and loses
-Ezekiel 4: 11 - Ezekiel is told to lie on one side for 390 days and to cook his food using human excremen
-Matthew 21:19 Jesus curses a fig tree for being baron (i just love that one)

Sorry I'm laughing at this while i'm writing it, but it's in the bible. I hope you don't actually believe this

Some hard to believe things in the Bible? Of course. And you didn't scratch the surface... Balaam's donkey talking... Christ walking on water... and that whole resurrection thing.

Some hard to believe theories spouted by evolutionists, big bang proponents and global warming types? Absolutely. Strange how you see THOSE as automatic 'scientific' truth, when they cannot be proven either. But you castigate others for taking a leap of faith, even as you do the same.

 

[SalemPats]

Some hard to believe things in the Bible? Of course. And you didn't scratch the surface... Balaam's donkey talking... Christ walking on water... and that whole resurrection thing.

Some hard to believe theories spouted by evolutionists, big bang proponents and global warming types? Absolutely. Strange how you see THOSE as automatic 'scientific' truth, when they cannot be proven either. But you castigate others for taking a leap of faith, even as you do the same.

But there's a difference between logic and common-sense and what we have proven. We know religion is used for hope, but when it crosses the line of becoming truth then there is a problem.

 

[oldrover]

We know religion is used for hope, but when it crosses the line of becoming truth then there is a problem.

You have it backwards. People do not follow God and Christ because it gives them hope. They follow God through Christ because they believe He IS the Truth. And THAT gives them hope and comfort.

 

[SalemPats]

You have it backwards. People do not follow God and Christ because it gives them hope. They follow God through Christ because they believe He IS the Truth. And THAT gives them hope and comfort.

same thing, it gives them hope and comfort. The problem is when the church has control and people take the bible literally

 

[The Brandon Five]

But there's a difference between logic and common-sense and what we have proven. We know religion is used for hope, but when it crosses the line of becoming truth then there is a problem.

Veritas? Quid est veritas?

 

[oldrover]

I don't know what you mean by 'the church in control'. Control of what? One could argue that the apparatus of government is more in control of scientific theorists than any church is in control of their flock.

Bible literalists... that depends... the church fathers did not read Genesis as a 'literal' accounting. Tough to on creation in particular, since there were two different stories.

However, many contemporary sects of Christians, especially evangelicals, have eschewed the orthodox Bible interpretation and do claim that everything in the Bible... even Genesis... happened precisely that way. That can be problematic on a variety of levels.

 

[oldrover]

same thing, it gives them hope and comfort.

It's not the same thing. They/we believe because we believe it is Truth, and Truth is the most important thing. And don't kid yourself... it's not all hope. comfort, gumdrops and lollipops being a Christian. St. Paul said it best: "Work out your own salvation, with fear and trembling."

 

[The Brandon Five]

-The bible says Noah lived until the age of 950 years old and was 500 years when he started his Noah Ark journey
-Genesis 32 - God has a wrestling match with Jacob, and loses
-Ezekiel 4: 11 - Ezekiel is told to lie on one side for 390 days and to cook his food using human excremen
-Matthew 21:19 Jesus curses a fig tree for being baron (i just love that one)

Umm, I think you are missing the point. We get it that you think the Bible is B.S. What is not clear is what you believe in and why. My post was meant to point out the issue with the naturalist viewpoint.

So out of all of the super-natural things in the Bible you are stuck on these minor ones? What about the resurrection? Why couldn't the God who raised the dead have kept Noah alive for that long? Many of the earlier figures in the Bible had very long lives (Adam 930, Jared 962, Methuselah 969).

Sorry I'm laughing at this while i'm writing it, but it's in the bible. I hope you don't actually believe this

You are laughing while you write it because you overestimate your own understanding.

"Baron?" Really?

 

[oldrover]

LOL... so much for evolution.

 

[Christiancat]

Now you're talking. I like all kinds of music but when it comes to worship I dig Hillsong:

Take Heart - Hillsong United - Lyrics [HD] - YouTube

Hillsong UNITED Oceans (Where Feet May Fail) Lyric Video - YouTube

Hillsong United - Hosanna

Hillsong is really good as well.

 

[SalemPats]

Many of the earlier figures in the Bible had very long lives (Adam 930, Jared 962, Methuselah 969).

exactly, thanks for proving my point

 

[The Brandon Five]

exactly, thanks for proving my point

So you are saying that you know for a fact that this did not happen? Is that your point? I can't wait to hear this one.

 

[SalemPats]

So you are saying that you know for a fact that this did not happen? Is that your point? I can't wait to hear this one.

yes, it's a fact, just like hobbits and elves are not real either

 

[The Brandon Five]

yes, it's a fact, just like hobbits and elves are not real either

So, tell me about the time you met George Washington. Can't take anybody's word for it, can we?

History is your specialty?

 

[SalemPats]

So, tell me about the time you met George Washington. Can't take anybody's word for it, can we?

History is your specialty?

If I say i met GW you'll probably believe me, because you can't prove that i didn't, even though science, logic, etc... would say the opposite.

 

[fpraven88]

So you still haven't answered my question. Would you just rape and pillage in the absence of religious faith?

You'll have better luck attempting to swallow your laptop whole than you will getting an honest answer out of RIPF on that one.

 

[The Brandon Five]

If I say i met GW you'll probably believe me, because you can't prove that i didn't, even though science, logic, etc... would say the opposite.

No, my point is that you are willing to take other people's word for it that he existed.

And really? Comparing Jesus and other biblical figures to Hobbits? Tolkien was pretty clear that he was writing fiction. Tolkien was a devout Catholic who actually influenced C.S. Lewis to come to faith.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

I'm still new here, but not to this topic.

1st of all, I'm glad this topic does not turn into 'scorched Earth' - endless bitter fighting. I was at an automotive forum that after several years, their staff had to draw the line on a few members there that conveniently forgot the core theme (cars there, Patriots here) and engaged in endless vitriolic and personal attacks.

My conclusions on this and other topics very dear to us is we should try to be logical as often as possible, but emotional experiences often trump that anyway. The English language Wikipedia's biographies mention/categorize the person's religion more than other languages. I have found many instances of people taking a 180-degree turn on beliefs. Madelyn Murry O'Hair's son became a evangelist - Fred Phelps (of Westboro Baptist Church) son's abuse led to his atheism. Darwin and Putin (not a fan of either, BTW) both did a complete about face on their beliefs after major events in their lifes...I could make a long list, but you get the point.

At that car forum, some of the biggest religion (pro or con) flamethrowers I'm convinced were shaped by emotion - not logic. Now I will leave you with a couple of applicable quotes to that end:

Watch your thoughts, they become words;
watch your words, they become actions;
watch your actions, they become habits;
watch your habits, they become character;
watch your character, for it becomes your destiny

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.