Pats lost battle of the trenches

[BlitzFritz]

I agree that Brady did not play well. And our secondary got torched for record yards (after Welker pick play). But honestly, we got NO pressure on the Forehead all day. And our ability to run against their 7 (not eight) was non existent.

I can understand that the QB (Brady) can have an off day. But how can both lines also? That hurt.

Denver Broncos dominate Patriots in the trenches - NFL.com

-- FRITZ

 

[aabtec]

I agree that Brady did not play well. And our secondary got torched for record yards (after Welker pick play). But honestly, we got NO pressure on the Forehead all day. And our ability to run against their 7 (not eight) was non existent.

I can understand that the QB (Brady) can have an off day. But how can both lines also? That hurt.

Denver Broncos dominate Patriots in the trenches - NFL.com

-- FRITZ

Fully agree. The good NFL teams have figured the Pats out. We are good enough to win the NFL East and that is about it. We would not do well in any other division.

The Pats need to revamp how they draft and recruiting free agents.

Brady only has a few more years left and then the Pats will be in real trouble.

 

[stinkypete]

Hmmm, the Pats beat Indy, and Indy owned the AFCS. The Pats also would have easily won the NFCE and NFCN. Rest of the divisions, I'm not so sure.

I think the biggest upgrade needed is in the interior offensive line. Wendell got owned all year, and it showed yesterday as the run game couldn't get any push at all up the middle.

On the defensive side, I want to see a vet pass rusher brought in to supplement Jones. This line got no push whatsoever. I'm satisfied with the DT situation provided Wilfork returns to a fraction of his pre-Achilles self.

 

[mayoclinic]

The Broncos played their best game of the year IMHO in terms of the intensity, physicality and mental toughness that they showed. That surprised me, and they deserve credit for their performance.

I did not expect us to lose both line battles. Very disappointing. Clearly there is a lot of work to be done on both fronts.

I've said all along that playing Chandler Jones and Rob Ninkovich for so many snaps would wear them down by the playoffs. I think Jones in particular has fallen off considerably from earlier in the season in terms of his explosiveness. Getting a quality DE rotation is to me as much a priority for next year as upgrading the DTs.

The interior OL is just not up to snuff, particularly Wendell and Connolly. I will be very disappointed if we pay to bring Wendell back.

Very disappointing.

 

[FortressX]

I would like to see O-line and D-line snap counts for the years 2003-2004 and 2012-2013 to compare.
It seems the Pats have rotated less the last few years, but this is just a guess and not based on facts.

 

[tedy hagler]

We lost battle of trenches on O-line because the white flag was flying on the running game by halftime. Contrast it to Seattle: Marshawn Lynch had 33 yards at the half, getting stuffed pretty regularly. Seattle kept with the run, and it paid off. The Patriots offiense was reduced to a pop gun in a playoff game again, with Brady tossing 30+ times in a loss.

Still, I thank the Patriots for a tremendously entertaining year.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Yep, pretty obvious this is where we lost the game. I'm not excusing Brady or the coaches, but for all the blame they are taking the fact is they didn't have much of a shot once this battle was lost.

- Zero pressure on Manning, once Talib went down it's practically impossible to defend with Manning having all day back there.
- Nonexistant run game, too much pressure on the limited pass attack.
- Pass protection breakdowns in some big moments.

Hopefully interior OL is a point of emphasis in the draft/FA. And like mayo said we also need depth along the DL, a major need at DT if Vince comes back a different guy from that injury.

 

[mayoclinic]

I would like to see O-line and D-line snap counts for the years 2003-2004 and 2012-2013 to compare.
It seems the Pats have rotated less the last few years, but this is just a guess and not based on facts.

From Reiss:

Patriots by the numbers: 2012 snap counts - Extra Points - Boston.com
Snaps: Defensive breakdown for 2013 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Regarding some specific players:

- DE Chandler Jones played 729 defensive snaps in 2012, 1134 in the 2013 regular season
- DE Rob Ninkovich played 906 defensive snaps in 2012, 1105 in the 2013 regular season
- DT Vince Wilfork only played 177 defensive snaps in 2013 (down from 888 in 2012) because of injury
- DT Chris Jones wasn't in the NFL in 2012; he played 768 snaps in 2013, which is quite high given that he didn't play until game 4.
- LT Nate Solder played 1234 offensive snaps in 2012. He probably didn't play as many in 2013, as he missed a game and a half with concussions.
- LG Logan Mankins played 744 offensive snaps in 2012. He probably exceeded that in 2013 (the offense played 1200 snaps).
- C Ryan Wendell played 1231 offensive snaps in 2012. He was probably close to that in 2013 (the offense played 1200 snaps).
- RT Sebastian Vollmer played 1096 offensive snaps in 2012. He went on IR and didn't play nearly as many in 2013.

What stands out to me is how much Chandler Jones, Rob Ninkovich and Chris Jones played. I think all 3 wore down over the course of the season.

 

[dizi24]

We lost battle of trenches on O-line because the white flag was flying on the running game by halftime. Contrast it to Seattle: Marshawn Lynch had 33 yards at the half, getting stuffed pretty regularly. Seattle kept with the run, and it paid off. The Patriots offiense was reduced to a pop gun in a playoff game again, with Brady tossing 30+ times in a loss.

Still, I thank the Patriots for a tremendously entertaining year.

That Patriots were also down 17 after Denver's first drive of the second half, and Peyton was shredding our defense, and taking his time doing it with 8 minute drives. Apples and oranges.

 

[everlong]

I was going to start a thread on this topic this morning. They're been playing with lines that scheme but don't dominate for a long time. It's time to rebuild them as priority one.

Chris Jones and Silga can be good rotational types in the mold of Jarvis Green and Bobby Hamilton but they shouldn't be playing the types of snaps they were. As others have said Wendell and Conolly need upgrades.

The thing that's going to hurt them most is Hernandez's cap hit for next year no matter what they try to do.

 

[upstater1]

We lost battle of trenches on O-line because the white flag was flying on the running game by halftime. Contrast it to Seattle: Marshawn Lynch had 33 yards at the half, getting stuffed pretty regularly. Seattle kept with the run, and it paid off. The Patriots offiense was reduced to a pop gun in a playoff game again, with Brady tossing 30+ times in a loss.

Still, I thank the Patriots for a tremendously entertaining year.

The difference is that Seattle has a defense that can stop the opposing offense. New England's D couldn't stop Peyton at all. When the opposition is putting 8 men in the box and daring you to throw, you're going to fall behind if you don't take what they give you.

AND, people are forgetting two huge drives to the Broncos 25 yard line yesterday. One in the first half when Hooman's penalty brought up a 3rd and 20. And another big drive when Brady was sacked on 4th down.

Those were the two biggest plays of the game, IMO.

1. Hooman's 10 yard OPI.
2. Knighton's sack of Brady.

Those 2 plays take 10 points away from the Patriots.

 

[tedy hagler]

Not really my friend. The numbers speak for themselves in the quite large sample of Patriot playoff games: Patriots win with some balance in offense, and lose badly with the pop gun mentality. There were still 20+ minutes to play.

That Patriots were also down 17 after Denver's first drive of the second half, and Peyton was shredding our defense, and taking his time doing it with 8 minute drives. Apples and oranges.

 

[tedy hagler]

Mankins was a turnstile on that play. Brutal.

T

2. Knighton's sack of Brady.

Those 2 plays take 10 points away from the Patriots.

 

[SoCal Pmen]

I hope this becomes the area of focus for the offseason. It seems like we've been watching the same issues occur every playoff - lack of quality play by the o-line which makes them one dimensional and throws off the rhythm; a lack of a pass rush which gives QB's an eternity to pick them apart.

 

[BelizePats]

I'm glad to see that I was not the only one who thought this once the game was over. The Pats got whipped in the trenches, both on D and on O. Brady did not play well and that's a fact. But, this game was lost on the lines. Denver more physical? I never would have guessed it!

 

[BlitzFritz]

The Pats lines played so much better against Indy. IS Denver that much better of a team on both sides of the ball? I didnt think so.

Therefore, the O-line and D-line under-delivered...?

Just having a hard time understanding how our team can get pushed around like that.

 

[SVN]

A lot of it is mental and confidence. Pats hit one of the early plays and take a lead on the road, maybe it effects denver. Once they got the lead they grew confident. The 2 sacks on brady came at critical times. Shouldve kicked the FG on the 2nd one to make it a 2 score game.

 

[stelfans]

Having only 4 defensive lineman capable of playing football was a problem. But no one could predict Wilfork, kelly, Mayo and to a lesser extent Armstead would all be out for the year.
I think the defensive line can be "easily" corrected next year with the adittion of one or 2 player combining the draft and FA.

The o-line on the other hand was putrid all year. Wendell and Conolly need to go ASAP.

 

[ATippett56]

I've said all along that playing Chandler Jones and Rob Ninkovich for so many snaps would wear them down by the playoffs. I think Jones in particular has fallen off considerably from earlier in the season in terms of his explosiveness. Getting a quality DE rotation is to me as much a priority for next year as upgrading the DTs.

Nice to see that you have given up on defensive end Michael Buchanan already.

The interior pass rush was completely non-existent for the New England Patriots defense against the Denver Broncos offense.

The interior OL is just not up to snuff, particularly Wendell and Connolly. I will be very disappointed if we pay to bring Wendell back.

Wendell has been the main problem with the interior offensive line play, especially in pass protection and not Connolly.

 

[Guts]

I think Denver playing at home had a lot to do with it as well. It's tough to win a road playoff game.