Please read this if you need Jesus

[3 to be 4]

Adding to the above: 3 to be 4's over-emphasis on a personal relationship with ************ further indicates where he is stuck in the dogmatic obsessive/addictive religionist process. Christ was a divine messenger who sacrificed much to "point the way" toward God realization. Yet, people like 3 to be 4 are too mesmerized by the "finger" (Christ) to fully comprehend and appreciate where that finger is pointing. That is, toward opening one's self to a personal relationship with spiritual guidance free of religious precepts. It's all about the message, not the messenger or the limiting/controlling/judgmental falsehoods we've constructed around him the last 2,000 years. It's not about a relationship with ************, or Buddha, or Mohammed, or whatever source one identifies with as the pathway to spirit. It's about a direct relationship with God. To argue otherwise on behalf of whatever doctrine or messenger you've latched onto misses the point entirely, and leaves one prey to the manmade deceit plaguing most of the world's religions as they are institutionally applied.

wow. for someone who doesnt believe in ************, you sure do know a lot about Christianity and what it means to be a Christian.
Where exactly, did you learn about what it means to be a Christian?, because nothing you said is found in the Bible, and if its not in the Bible, you are pretty much making up your own rules.
You're free do it if you wish, but it has absolutly nothing to do with anything worth noting by me or any other Christian.

again, i have to say, its very interesting to me how you fellows cant seem to avoid this topic. But I welcome your comments.

Have a blessed night.

 

[Tunescribe]

wow. for someone who doesnt believe in ************, you sure do know a lot about Christianity and what it means to be a Christian.
Where exactly, did you learn about what it means to be a Christian?, because nothing you said is found in the Bible, and if its not in the Bible, you are pretty much making up your own rules.
You're free do it if you wish, but it has absolutly nothing to do with anything worth noting by me or any other Christian.

again, i have to say, its very interesting to me how you fellows cant seem to avoid this topic. But I welcome your comments.

Have a blessed night.

Yup, heaven forbid you think for yourself on any of this, or accept that the bible is open to a wide range of interpretations, most of which are just as legitimate as your own. How do you leap to the assumption that I don't believe in ************? Oh yeah, that's right -- because it doesn't jive with what YOU believe.

 

[3 to be 4]

Yup, heaven forbid you think for yourself on any of this, or accept that the bible is open to a wide range of interpretations, most of which are just as legitimate as your own. How do you leap to the assumption that I don't believe in ************? Oh yeah, that's right -- because it doesn't jive with what YOU believe.

well, i would be awfully glad if you do believe in ************, and by that, I mean, not just that He existed, because I think you know full well that is not whats meant by the term to "believe in Jesus". If indeed you believe He is the Son of God, Died on the Cross for our sins, and resurrected 3 days later, then we have no disagreement and I see no reason for your hostility. If you dont believe that, then lets try to have an honest conversation and not play cutesy debating games.

as far as this idea that you KNOW what I believe, its clear you dont just based on this bizarre quote of yours from earlier:

"By becoming a religionist, he has chosen to adopt a belief system rooted in abdication of personal responsibility for one's thoughts and actions (re., "giving one's self to Jesus/God") as defined by his sect's narrow interpretation of the Christian bible. This extends to an ongoing campaign of attempting to control others by luring them into the sect with the promise of eternal life so they can feel "free" and "righteous," and needn't stress any longer over wordly travails. We've often seen 3 to be 4 state that Jesus has set him "free" and that "I need Jesus every day." I've heard heroin addicts say similar things; the addictive mindset is very similar, just a different drug or panacea. Religionists believe that in the context of eternal life, none of our personal worldly concerns matter anyway (as long as one is "saved"). Nothing could be more wrong, as our very purpose in life is to evolve as loving, spiritual beings through the myriad challenges and hardships we were brought into this incarnation to experience. What 3 to be 4 professes has little to do with the true spiritual principles of Christianity, or with one developing a personal relationship with God through the example of Christ's divine life. The genuine Christian relies upon spiritual guidance for (1). learning how to assume personal responsibility for one's thoughts, actions, happiness and well-being, (2). learning how to honor and love one's self, and (3). extending that love to others. You can't get to #3 without first dedicating yourself to #1 and #2 and working damn hard at it. 3 to be 4 suggests sidestepping all that by buying into a ready-made religionist belief system. Without doing the work necessary to evolve personally and spiritually, he and others of his ilk are little more than dogma-spewing, scripture-quoting religion addicts."

Where on earth do you get all this??

where have I ever talked about abdicating personal responsibility?
How exactly do I "control" others? By posting things on a chat site?
How have I made anybody do anything? Wheres YOUR personal responsibility. You arent forced to read any of it. Do the people hurling insults on the political board get accused of controlling people?

as far as this:
"our very purpose in life is to evolve as loving, spiritual beings through the myriad challenges and hardships we were brought into this incarnation to experience"
REALLY?? You have defined the purpose of life for all of us? You think very highly of yourself. Its sounds like you do indeed worship yourself, since I guess your definition of our purpose has more validity than the Bible.

The genuine Christian reads the Bible and listens to the teachings in it. Read it for yourself, compare what you are saying, and my belief that ************ is the Son of God, Died on the Cross for our sins, and resurrected 3 days later.

Now you can say you are not a Christian and I can respect that. But to think you can speak about genuine Christianity when you think following the Bible is "narrow" and that Christianity isnt about a personal relationship with ************ is laughable. Your description of Christianity sounded more like a self-help book than anything else.

Forget my interpretation, The Word speaks for itself, theres no better reading than Psalms and Proverbs in the Old, Matthew and John in the New.

http://bibledev.azaz.com/bibleresources/bible_kjv.php

I don't force anything on anybody. The name ************ brings out strong reactions in people, the same people who wont get offended by anything else in this "everything goes" society. Its all "free speech" Until you proclaim ************ as Lord. And then people get all bent out of shape.

Its everyones own choice how they react. Its not my responsibility if something hits a nerve in some people. I do know I feel great tonight because its been one more day living my life with the Lord, I had a great day at work, spent some quality time with my family, had a nice dinner out, spent some time at our church hearing about our great plans for 2007......

check out a some great worship and some awesome messages if you like
hey, if you're ever in Olathe...just outside of KC
http://www.lifechurch-kc.com/

and I had a chance to talk about Jesus with you guys. Nice to see some people have looked at the music today. And at the very least, ive introduced the names of a lot of great Christian Contemporary Artists to people who may not have heard of them or that option before.

Its been a great day. All the praises go to Him. Be well, and im sure we'll talk soon

 

[Tunescribe]

well, i would be awfully glad if you do believe in ************, and by that, I mean, not just that He existed, because I think you know full well that is not whats meant by the term to "believe in Jesus". If indeed you believe He is the Son of God, Died on the Cross for our sins, and resurrected 3 days later, then we have no disagreement and I see no reason for your hostility. If you dont believe that, then lets try to have an honest conversation and not play cutesy debating games.

as far as this idea that you KNOW what I believe, its clear you dont just based on this bizarre quote of yours from earlier:

"By becoming a religionist, he has chosen to adopt a belief system rooted in abdication of personal responsibility for one's thoughts and actions (re., "giving one's self to Jesus/God") as defined by his sect's narrow interpretation of the Christian bible. This extends to an ongoing campaign of attempting to control others by luring them into the sect with the promise of eternal life so they can feel "free" and "righteous," and needn't stress any longer over wordly travails. We've often seen 3 to be 4 state that Jesus has set him "free" and that "I need Jesus every day." I've heard heroin addicts say similar things; the addictive mindset is very similar, just a different drug or panacea. Religionists believe that in the context of eternal life, none of our personal worldly concerns matter anyway (as long as one is "saved"). Nothing could be more wrong, as our very purpose in life is to evolve as loving, spiritual beings through the myriad challenges and hardships we were brought into this incarnation to experience. What 3 to be 4 professes has little to do with the true spiritual principles of Christianity, or with one developing a personal relationship with God through the example of Christ's divine life. The genuine Christian relies upon spiritual guidance for (1). learning how to assume personal responsibility for one's thoughts, actions, happiness and well-being, (2). learning how to honor and love one's self, and (3). extending that love to others. You can't get to #3 without first dedicating yourself to #1 and #2 and working damn hard at it. 3 to be 4 suggests sidestepping all that by buying into a ready-made religionist belief system. Without doing the work necessary to evolve personally and spiritually, he and others of his ilk are little more than dogma-spewing, scripture-quoting religion addicts."

Where on earth do you get all this??

where have I ever talked about abdicating personal responsibility?
How exactly do I "control" others? By posting things on a chat site?
How have I made anybody do anything? Wheres YOUR personal responsibility. You arent forced to read any of it. Do the people hurling insults on the political board get accused of controlling people?

as far as this:
"our very purpose in life is to evolve as loving, spiritual beings through the myriad challenges and hardships we were brought into this incarnation to experience"
REALLY?? You have defined the purpose of life for all of us? You think very highly of yourself. Its sounds like you do indeed worship yourself, since I guess your definition of our purpose has more validity than the Bible.

The genuine Christian reads the Bible and listens to the teachings in it. Read it for yourself, compare what you are saying, and my belief that ************ is the Son of God, Died on the Cross for our sins, and resurrected 3 days later.

Now you can say you are not a Christian and I can respect that. But to think you can speak about genuine Christianity when you think following the Bible is "narrow" and that Christianity isnt about a personal relationship with ************ is laughable. Your description of Christianity sounded more like a self-help book than anything else.

Forget my interpretation, The Word speaks for itself, theres no better reading than Psalms and Proverbs in the Old, Matthew and John in the New.

http://bibledev.azaz.com/bibleresources/bible_kjv.php

I don't force anything on anybody. The name ************ brings out strong reactions in people, the same people who wont get offended by anything else in this "everything goes" society. Its all "free speech" Until you proclaim ************ as Lord. And then people get all bent out of shape.

Its everyones own choice how they react. Its not my responsibility if something hits a nerve in some people. I do know I feel great tonight because its been one more day living my life with the Lord, I had a great day at work, spent some quality time with my family, had a nice dinner out, spent some time at our church hearing about our great plans for 2007......

check out a some great worship and some awesome messages if you like
hey, if you're ever in Olathe...just outside of KC
http://www.lifechurch-kc.com/

and I had a chance to talk about Jesus with you guys. Nice to see some people have looked at the music today. And at the very least, ive introduced the names of a lot of great Christian Contemporary Artists to people who may not have heard of them or that option before.

Its been a great day. All the praises go to Him. Be well, and im sure we'll talk soon

You are so thoroughly brainwashed and addicted to your narrow interpretation of the bible which SOMEONE ELSE recruited you to believe, that any attempt to have a reasonable discussion on this subject is fruitless. You appear incapable of independent thought when it comes to the vast gulf between genuine spirituality and your brand of intolerant religionism. Your transparent agenda here is twofold: (1). dismiss any challenge to your religionist perspectives out of hand and twist it into reinforcing what you already believe, and (2). recruit/persuade/cajole others into your rigid way of thinking. I'd rather talk to a parrot than listen to your hopelessly predictable regurgitations. That you find my points "laughable" and insanely suggest that I'm worshiping myself shows just how walled off you really are. I'm sure you mean well, regardless. But one final bit of advice before I leave this poor excuse for a discussion: You should be aware that your rigidly pedantic efforts here at "spreading the word" actively alienate many people who otherwise might be open to Christianity as a spiritual path.

 

[shmessy]

You are so thoroughly brainwashed and addicted to your narrow interpretation of the bible which SOMEONE ELSE recruited you to believe, that any attempt to have a reasonable discussion on this subject is fruitless. You appear incapable of independent thought when it comes to the vast gulf between genuine spirituality and your brand of intolerant religionism. Your transparent agenda here is twofold: (1). dismiss any challenge to your religionist perspectives out of hand and twist it into reinforcing what you already believe, and (2). recruit/persuade/cajole others into your rigid way of thinking. I'd rather talk to a parrot than listen to your hopelessly predictable regurgitations. That you find my points "laughable" and insanely suggest that I'm worshiping myself shows just how walled off you really are. I'm sure you mean well, regardless.

.....and, of course, (according to 3tobe4) you don't believe in Jesus.

 

[3 to be 4]

You are so thoroughly brainwashed and addicted to your narrow interpretation of the bible which SOMEONE ELSE recruited you to believe, that any attempt to have a reasonable discussion on this subject is fruitless. You are incapable of independent thought when it comes to the vast gulf between genuine spirituality and your brand of intolerant religionism. Your transparent agenda here is twofold: (1). dismiss any challenge to your religionist perspectives out of hand and twist them into reinforcing what you already believe, and (2). recruit/persuade/cajole others into your rigid way of thinking. I'd rather talk to a parrot than listen to your hopelessly predictable regurgitations.

Good morning, its good to hear from you again. I have tried to have a reasonable discussion with you. I asked you what Bible you are getting your interpretation from that Jesus isnt the Son of God,Died on the Cross for our sin, and was resurrected 3 days later.
Who is dismissing who out of hand?

I post positive messages about ************. You answer with hostility.
Who is intolerant?

others, in order to persuade others here, post that Bush should go to a firing squad, that liberals want terrorists to attack us, that Christianity is a "scum religion" and I dont see a big uproar over that. I offer a positive alternative, not too available or popular in the New England Patriot region, of life with a personal relationship with ************, and I get called "controlling" "addict" "huckster" "brainwashed" not to mention worse things in the not too distant past.

please dont waste your time talking to your parrot. Try thinking about why, such a person of peace and intellect as yourself, needs to tear down someone else for proclaiming their faith.

Notice that my M.O. is not busting in on others threads and tearing them down. I clearly named this thread so that you didnt have to "navigate your way around it. But instead, you showed your spirituality and inner peace and coming in freely and tossing out insults.

to those who enter this thread based on the title, I welcome you. Dont be swayed by some negative responses you've seen posted here. There will always be people who want to tear down others. Jesus said in Matthew 5:11

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake"

It doesnt bother me what I'm called for speaking the truth about Jesus. He suffered far more than we could imagine and He did it for us. And as He was being crucified He asked God to "forgive them for they know not what they do"
What kind of love is that, to forgive the people who were torturing Him? What a great God He is, who loved us enough to send His son to die for us in that way.

Dont fret over the people that say rude things to you because your belief. They will never love you the way Jesus loves you.

Go in peace today.

 

[Tunescribe]

But instead, you showed your spirituality and inner peace and coming in freely and tossing out insults.

Man, you are a hypocrite! Try telling this to the mirror and listen to what it says back. Oh, wait -- you're not responsible for what you say and do, Jesus is. My bad.

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake"

And this explains what you're here, in part, to accomplish for your own reinforcement/self-gratification.

Go in peace today.

Sorry, but this little nicety you habitually end with doesn't absolve your insulting, chauvenistic, intolerant attitude. BYE!

 

[3 to be 4]

when, exactly, did I say "I am not responsible for what I say and do, Jesus is"??

Im a hypocrite for pointing out how you came into this thread, which was clearly marked and your choice (I didnt "force" anything on you,) and insulted me for my beliefs?

ok, whatever.

Peace.

 

[3 to be 4]

To those who enter this thread based on the title, I welcome you. Dont be swayed by some negative responses you've seen posted here. There will always be people who want to tear down others. Jesus said in Matthew 5:11

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake"

It doesnt bother me what I'm called for speaking the truth about Jesus. He suffered far more than we could imagine and He did it for us. And as He was being crucified He asked God to "forgive them for they know not what they do"
What kind of love is that, to forgive the people who were torturing Him? What a great God He is, who loved us enough to send His son to die for us in that way.

Dont fret over the people that say rude things to you because your belief. They will never love you the way Jesus loves you.

Go in peace today.

 

[grogan2767]

JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy."

Yaweh, let them keep the virgin girls though as plunder!

To those who enter this thread based on the title, I welcome you. Dont be swayed by some negative responses you've seen posted here. There will always be people who want to tear down others. Jesus said in Matthew 5:11

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake"

It doesnt bother me what I'm called for speaking the truth about Jesus. He suffered far more than we could imagine and He did it for us. And as He was being crucified He asked God to "forgive them for they know not what they do"
What kind of love is that, to forgive the people who were torturing Him? What a great God He is, who loved us enough to send His son to die for us in that way.

Dont fret over the people that say rude things to you because your belief. They will never love you the way Jesus loves you.

Go in peace today.

 

[3 to be 4]

Proverbs 3: 5-6

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

[nukin]

Who need's Jesus? He is just a symbol of faith in a deity that you can not prove is real by following scripture that was written thousands of years ago by man.

Same thing with Allah, Buddah, etc... all symbol's of their respective faiths.

The only proof you can offer me on how your God exsists is your book, and what it say's. You may also be able to tell me personal stories, but how do you know that half of that is not wishful thinking, and the other half is coincidence anyways?

 

[mcbee]

You need to spell it out more clearly for them. \

"God sent his only son to die for YOU (how is it his only "son"? I thought Jesus was god? And God can create a million "sons", it's not a big deal, since he's God). And if you don't believe the Jesus story and play along in the Jesus cult, then you'll be tortured for all eternity. Because Jesus is the God of Love. He gives you free will but if you think it's all a bunch of ****, then get ready to be tortured!"

"Sorry Jesus, when I heard that story I thought it was crap".

"No problem, my son, I knew you would. You will drown in a lake of fire for all eternity! Aren't I wonderful! Of course. Have a nice day."

 

[mcbee]

Proverbs 3: 5-6

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Exactly. Beat down your sense of independence. If you question Chrisitianity well...that's the DEVIL talking. You must STIFLE the voice of Satan. Is it a wonder why so many Christians are lunatics?

You MUST believe what we say or you'll go to hell. Standard fear based religion crapola. Believe this or go to hell. Drop dead you maggot.

And Buddha doesn't portray himself as a god. Buddhism is kind of a philosophy of "oneness" with all life, but Buddha himself is not a god, didn't say he was a god.

 

[3 to be 4]

Exactly. Beat down your sense of independence. If you question Chrisitianity well...that's the DEVIL talking. You must STIFLE the voice of Satan. Is it a wonder why so many Christians are lunatics?

You MUST believe what we say or you'll go to hell. Standard fear based religion crapola. Believe this or go to hell. Drop dead you maggot.

And Buddha doesn't portray himself as a god. Buddhism is kind of a philosophy of "oneness" with all life, but Buddha himself is not a god, didn't say he was a god.

I agree. Buddha is not God.

 

[nukin]

I agree. Buddha is not God.

He is not a God, you are correct. He was a philosopher and a very smart man who believed himself to reach Nirvana, which, coincidentaly was today.


Christianity is such a bogas religion, IMO. It works for some people, and that's wonderful - more power to you...
... but the way they force their religion on people... the way they MAKE people believe - it just mind bogels me.

I went into a Christian bookstore the other day... I saw a Bible - 40$. That is outragous. They should not overcharge on a piece of scripture that was written thousands of years ago, when you could just go get one for free. It is stealing, which is against your ten commandments.

IMO, the Christian God is not loveing. If he knows everything, then he knows which of us are damned and which are not. Does that mean we are born either Damned or not...? Is he so hateful that he brings us into exsistance to let us suffer for all eternety?

Please, enlighten me. I love talking religion with sensable people - don't know if your sensable or not, didn't read the thread.

 

[Tunescribe]

He is not a God, you are correct. He was a philosopher and a very smart man who believed himself to reach Nirvana, which, coincidentaly was today.


Christianity is such a bogas religion, IMO. It works for some people, and that's wonderful - more power to you...
... but the way they force their religion on people... the way they MAKE people believe - it just mind bogels me.

I went into a Christian bookstore the other day... I saw a Bible - 40$. That is outragous. They should not overcharge on a piece of scripture that was written thousands of years ago, when you could just go get one for free. It is stealing, which is against your ten commandments.

IMO, the Christian God is not loveing. If he knows everything, then he knows which of us are damned and which are not. Does that mean we are born either Damned or not...? Is he so hateful that he brings us into exsistance to let us suffer for all eternety?

Please, enlighten me. I love talking religion with sensable people - don't know if your sensable or not, didn't read the thread.

You would save yourself a lot of time and answer your own question if you just went back and read the other posts in this thread. Honestly, this awful thread was created by 3 to be 4 for his own purposes and was slowly fading away of its own accord before you and McBee had to go and prod the beast from welcome slumber ...

 

[3 to be 4]

He is not a God, you are correct. He was a philosopher and a very smart man who believed himself to reach Nirvana, which, coincidentaly was today.


Christianity is such a bogas religion, IMO. It works for some people, and that's wonderful - more power to you...
... but the way they force their religion on people... the way they MAKE people believe - it just mind bogels me.

I went into a Christian bookstore the other day... I saw a Bible - 40$. That is outragous. They should not overcharge on a piece of scripture that was written thousands of years ago, when you could just go get one for free. It is stealing, which is against your ten commandments.

IMO, the Christian God is not loveing. If he knows everything, then he knows which of us are damned and which are not. Does that mean we are born either Damned or not...? Is he so hateful that he brings us into exsistance to let us suffer for all eternety?

Please, enlighten me. I love talking religion with sensable people - don't know if your sensable or not, didn't read the thread.

first of all, what Christian "MAKES you believe"? What is "forced" on you?

secondly, He does not "bring us into existance to let us suffer for all eternity". God has provided a way for all of us to have peace and everlasting life. We WERE condemned by our sin. But God loved us so much he sent His Son to take our punishment. Jesus Christs death on the cross is payment for our sin. By accepting that Jesus is the Son of God, that he died on the cross for our sins, and that he raised from the dead 3 days later, our sins are forgiven, and we have eternal life.
God doesnt send anyone to Hell. We choose for ourselves by rejecting His Son. All He asks is for your belief in Him. For eternity. Not a bad deal.

But everyone must choose for themselves and nothing is forced upon you. I invite you to please read through this thread.

 

[3 to be 4]

You would save yourself a lot of time and answer your own question if you just went back and read the other posts in this thread. Honestly, this awful thread was created by 3 to be 4 for his own purposes and was slowly fading away of its own accord before you and McBee had to go and prod the beast from welcome slumber ...

If, by my own purposes, you mean spreading the good news of ************, than Im guilty as charged.

the "beast" would like to have you believe its about me, or about things man has done to others in the name of religion.
But its really all about ************.

 

[nukin]

first of all, what Christian "MAKES you believe"? What is "forced" on you?

secondly, He does not "bring us into existance to let us suffer for all eternity". God has provided a way for all of us to have peace and everlasting life. We WERE condemned by our sin. But God loved us so much he sent His Son to take our punishment. Jesus Christs death on the cross is payment for our sin. By accepting that Jesus is the Son of God, that he died on the cross for our sins, and that he raised from the dead 3 days later, our sins are forgiven, and we have eternal life.
God doesnt send anyone to Hell. We choose for ourselves by rejecting His Son. All He asks is for your belief in Him. For eternity. Not a bad deal.

But everyone must choose for themselves and nothing is forced upon you. I invite you to please read through this thread.

Me? I never said anything about it being forced on me.
If you go to Africa, you will see Christian's forceing their books to these people without giving them any alternatives. You never see Christian's offering books of other religions (Such as what Wiccan's do, for example). If you want to spread religion, then don't force it by saying it's the only way, because it is not. It may work for you, but what if Islam or Hindu works for them?


Maybe you misunderstood me about that second point.
When I said "He brings us into exsistance so we may suffer for all eternaty", he knows which of us will choose him and which won't. The ones that won't choose him are condemned to hell, and he knew they would be.
If his master plan is that we all have that choice, then he does not know everything. If I have a choice if I go to heaven or not by accepting Christ, then God does not know everything... and everything you believe could be questioned.