Scouting Report: Marcus Hardison, DL

[midwestpatsfan]

This one is for you Manx.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2015/02/scouting-report-marcus-hardison-dt.html#more-33369

 

[mayoclinic]

Probably my #2 DT prospect after Eddie Goldman at the moment, and my favorite in terms of his versatility. His combat techniques need to be developed, but his trajectory is spectacular, and he seems to have the necessary motivation and work ethic.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

Mayo,
I think I would have him at #3 behind Phillips and Brown, but if I can wait to get Hardison later, especially over Brown, I would do it.
I am interested to hear your thoughts on Goldman and why you are so high on him. To me, he is a very good run stopping DT but I saw little from him as a disruptor. If that is the type of DT the Patriots are looking for, I think you can find one of those later.

 

[mayoclinic]

Mayo,
I think I would have him at #3 behind Phillips and Brown, but if I can wait to get Hardison later, especially over Brown, I would do it.
I am interested to hear your thoughts on Goldman and why you are so high on him. To me, he is a very good run stopping DT but I saw little from him as a disruptor. If that is the type of DT the Patriots are looking for, I think you can find one of those later.

I like Goldman because I think he's both strong enough against the run and explosive enough to disrupt. He's not as disruptive as Hardison, but he's much stronger insider right now. Goldman played defensive end in 2013, and he has the quickness and explosiveness to be more than just a "run stopping DT".

I think Hardison could well end up being my favorite before all is done because of his combination of explosiveness and versatility, plus he is under-valued right now, but I need to see a bit more to convince myself that he can hold up against the run and handle the inside dirty work. I think Goldman is much more developed in those respects, so as a guy who could play inside and complement Easley while still being disruptive I tend to like him. If I were convinced that Hardison could develop those capabilities then I could definitely go "all in" on him.

Go back and watch some of the 2013 film of Florida St. in which Goldman played DE, and let me know if you still think he's just a "good run stopping DT". You won't find any Draft Breakdown film of Goldman from 2013. You'll either have to look at FSU game film, or look at film featuring Mario Edwards or Timmy Jernigan from 2013, and look for Goldman.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

Sounds like we are lockstep on Hardison. It was almost weird how he was used at ASU. Its amazing a guy that size has such little tape of him playing the run. If he can develop in the run game and add an inside pass rush move, look out.

 

[mayoclinic]

Sounds like we are lockstep on Hardison. It was almost weird how he was used at ASU. Its amazing a guy that size has such little tape of him playing the run. If he can develop in the run game and add an inside pass rush move, look out.

Manx deserves all the credit on being way out in front on Hardison. I like the fact that Hardison is a former QB, that he struggled a bit when he first transferred to ASU but persevered and didn't give up, and that he seems very grounded and motivated. In interviews during the season and at the Senior Bowl he was always talking about just working on his techniques and fundamentals.

It's funny, because right now I think Hardison is a better edge rusher than Owamagbe Odighizuwa, even though he weighs 311#. "Diggy" is a bit stiff coming around the edge, and Hardison has uncanny burst for such a big guy. But conversely, Diggy is a better interior rusher right now, even though he's 40# lighter than Hardison. I think at the Pro Level that there are limits to what a 265-270# guy can do inside, so I tend to favor Hardison, even though Odighizuwa is a fine prospect in his own right.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

I could see Hardison end up as a 2nd rounder when all is said and done. He could be the Jaimie Collins of DL, with a ton of versatility, incredible athleticism that just stayed under the radar long enough.

 

[mayoclinic]

I could see Hardison end up as a 2nd rounder when all is said and done. He could be the Jaimie Collins of DL, with a ton of versatility, incredible athleticism that just stayed under the radar long enough.

That's exactly how I see it. Combine that with Dominique Easley, and it could be the DL equivalent of Hightower-Collins.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Thats the funny thing about the guys under the radar. You begin to like them for their value, and as time goes on, the value begins to lessen, but the fit still remains.

I have loved what I have seen, but Manx and Mayo definitely have a better feel for where he will slot in long term.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

"diggy" is one of the guys I am looking forward most to seeing how he does at the combine. His shuttle and cone are going to be important numbers.

 

[patfanken]

Mayo, this sounds like THE guy, especially if you are comfortable he will go around the 40's. That would be perfect as we could trade down, pick him up, add a 2nd next year and something later this year. Then at 64, we'd be free to grab the edge rusher, or offensive lineman we prefer.

Here's the question. What if you can't make a trade, and there is no one at 32 who knocks you out; would you reach 15 or 20 spots and take him at #32. Realistically, even if we end up hitting with this kid, its unlikely that he'll make much of a contribution this year, except as a spot specialist. By reaching we get that extra year of control in a kid that will need some patience.

 

[luuked]

Mayo, this sounds like THE guy, especially if you are comfortable he will go around the 40's. That would be perfect as we could trade down, pick him up, add a 2nd next year and something later this year. Then at 64, we'd be free to grab the edge rusher, or offensive lineman we prefer.

Here's the question. What if you can't make a trade, and there is no one at 32 who knocks you out; would you reach 15 or 20 spots and take him at #32. Realistically, even if we end up hitting with this kid, its unlikely that he'll make much of a contribution this year, except as a spot specialist. By reaching we get that extra year of control in a kid that will need some patience.

I know you asked Manx, but if there is no reasonable move down or lateral (to 2016) depending on the board I'd be willing to trade up for him (use one of the cluster of picks around the end of 3). As was said in another thread it is unlikely we will be able to accommodate all draft picks unless we fail to retain certain FAs. So why not. But of course all of this lives and dies with the specific board we have set up.

 

[manxman2601]

This one is for you Manx.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2015/02/scouting-report-marcus-hardison-dt.html#more-33369

Your best write up so far. I agree with every single point you make:

1. "Unique combination of size, burst and agility". A great way to describe what Hardison is.

2. I agree, that his best fit is probably as a 3-4 RDE in an aggressive system.

3. You are spot on with your negatives too. He can't get off blocks once a lineman defends his first attack and it's my biggest concern with Hardison.


The thing with Hardison is that he will win straight away because of that burst but it will be in a limited role early on as a pass rushing specialist. But, at 310 lbs, he has the size to be an every down DT. I can't wait for his combine.

Interested to know if you have a comparison for him? I went with Stephon Tuitt initially because of his play on the edge but I like a Sheldon Richardson comp for him in terms of his quickness and athleticism.

Thank you for doing that. It's been quite a lonely existence liking Hardison, mainly because up until the Senior Bowl, no-one nationally was talking about him, even amongst draft twitter. For a long time I felt I'd completely mis-read Hardison and I'm glad he's finally getting attention. Hardison is arguably the evaluation I was most excited by behind Ziggy Ansah but was also the evaluation I was least confident in.

 

[manxman2601]

Mayo,
I think I would have him at #3 behind Phillips and Brown, but if I can wait to get Hardison later, especially over Brown, I would do it.
I am interested to hear your thoughts on Goldman and why you are so high on him. To me, he is a very good run stopping DT but I saw little from him as a disruptor. If that is the type of DT the Patriots are looking for, I think you can find one of those later.

Goldman is a weird evaluation for me. I do see what Mayo sees and I can see why everyone rates him so highly but I don't see it consistently enough to really get behind him. I think I have a problem evaluating DTs anyway, particularly 1-tech types like Goldman. Goldman looks dominant at times and his strength and hand use are excellent but too often he's handled by a single blocker. I think he'd be a great draft pick for us, I'm just not convinced he'd be a great first round draft pick. I'm quite happy to admit to being wrong on Goldman, I think it's more likely my inability to evaluate DTs properly that's the problem.

If I was grading them, I'd go:

1. Carl Davis
2=. Eddie Goldman
2=. Malcom Brown
3. Marcus Hardison
4. Jordan Phillips

My issue with Phillips is that I question his instincts. If I was happy with them, he'd be my number one. As for Hardison, it's only the fact that he'll need development that keeps him down.

 

[manxman2601]

Mayo, this sounds like THE guy, especially if you are comfortable he will go around the 40's. That would be perfect as we could trade down, pick him up, add a 2nd next year and something later this year. Then at 64, we'd be free to grab the edge rusher, or offensive lineman we prefer.

Here's the question. What if you can't make a trade, and there is no one at 32 who knocks you out; would you reach 15 or 20 spots and take him at #32. Realistically, even if we end up hitting with this kid, its unlikely that he'll make much of a contribution this year, except as a spot specialist. By reaching we get that extra year of control in a kid that will need some patience.

If you don't mind me answering. Hardison's upside is certainly worth picking at 32,I think he's a potential Sheldon Richardson but I do think there's too much risk picking him that early. He's only had one year of production and he needs a fair bit of coaching. Once he's blocked, he stays blocked and if he doesn't improve at that, he'll be a bust because his snaps will be limited to pure pass rush plays.

Having said that, the reason I've always been high on him is that he adds pass rush when we're rushing only three or four. We are one of the lowest blitzing teams in the league; Hardison will help us there.

Anyway, it's probably moot. Unless he JJ Watts' the combine, I think he'll be there at 64 unless Seattle or the 49ers want him.

 

[manxman2601]

Thats the funny thing about the guys under the radar. You begin to like them for their value, and as time goes on, the value begins to lessen, but the fit still remains.

Excellent observation.

 

[manxman2601]

Manx deserves all the credit on being way out in front on Hardison. I like the fact that Hardison is a former QB, that he struggled a bit when he first transferred to ASU but persevered and didn't give up, and that he seems very grounded and motivated. In interviews during the season and at the Senior Bowl he was always talking about just working on his techniques and fundamentals.

It's funny, because right now I think Hardison is a better edge rusher than Owamagbe Odighizuwa, even though he weighs 311#. "Diggy" is a bit stiff coming around the edge, and Hardison has uncanny burst for such a big guy. But conversely, Diggy is a better interior rusher right now, even though he's 40# lighter than Hardison. I think at the Pro Level that there are limits to what a 265-270# guy can do inside, so I tend to favor Hardison, even though Odighizuwa is a fine prospect in his own right.

If we're talking upside, then I agree Hardison is the better prospect. But I think 'Diggy' is the safer prospect, his floor is a good run defending LDE in a 4-3 whereas I think Hardison has a low floor presently. I also think 'Diggy' is the better year one prospect. However, I do think their roles would be similar and that you don't take both. I love them both so I'm fine with either.

 

[mayoclinic]

Some things to think about:

1. Hardison is coached by BB crony Todd Graham. Graham raves about Hardison, noting:

“I love Marcus, I love coaching him, I love his spirit, his character,” Graham said. “He is the biggest, strongest, most athletic, most explosive guy we have up front, and we need him to not be good but be great.”

Graham also lauded Hardison's character and consistency:

“Marcus has a great heart,” Graham said. “If you could meet his mom you’d see why he is such a great young man. (He has) great character, he has great athleticism, and he’s so consistent.”

2. Hardison went from being a QB in high school to going to junior college as a DL to going to Arizona St. He struggled with Graham's complicated defense and with pre- and post-snap adjustments, and at one point considered quitting, but stuck it out and blossomed. He noted:

"I've never been somewhere where they call a play and two seconds later they change it,'' Hardison said. "That was the hardest thing for me — the audibles. I didn't know defense made audibles. In junior college, we made a call, and that was the call. In high school, that was the call. That took me awhile to get used to. In a way, it was just like starting over."

The fact that he was able to adapt to such a system - to "start over" - bodes well for him being able to fit in on the Pats' complicated defense, which is not just a "let them pin their ears back and go" kind of approach.

3. Hardison appears to be a very smart guy on the field. Graham notes:

"Man, he's just matured so much," Graham said. "Marcus is the leader up front. He's really the guy the other guys turn to and look to. He coaches the other players."

4. Hardison seems to be a guy who is very grounded in his work ethic and fundamentals. At the Senior Bowl he talked about "working on his techniques", and that's something that he also mentioned during the season. He seems to have the ability to analyze his game and identify his weaknesses, and work on them. As one of the articles listed below notes:

The fact that Hardison knows exactly what he needs to work on is an encouraging sign for his NFL potential. When a player is critical of their own game and know what to work on, they are more apt to improve on that weakness, which is a necessity to survive in the NFL.

All of those things bode well for his future in the NFL, and for his ability to fit on the Patriots. Right now I feel much more confident in Harrison's character, work ethic and trajectory than I do for most of the other top DT candidates. Carl Davis, Jordan Phillips and Ellis McCarthy all have major question marks in that regard.

For a couple of good reads (with the quotes above) see:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...hardisons-journey-leads-success-asu/18560803/
http://www.statepress.com/2014/10/2...ring-into-defensive-stand-out-for-sun-devils/
http://www.footballinsiders.com/marcus-hardisons-versatility-makes-him-a-valuable-commodity/

 

[makoute]

Thanks guys for making sure that I will be disappointed if this fellow doesn't end up with the Pats on draft weekend.

 

[mayoclinic]

Thanks guys for making sure that I will be disappointed if this fellow doesn't end up with the Pats on draft weekend.

I will be disappointed too, because he will definitely be someone the Pats can get if they want him, and because he seems a perfect fit in so many ways. I have to assume with the BB-Graham connection that he will be on the Pats' radar.