Trading up makes too much sense

[manxman2601]

We'll have about 5 picks in the top 110 and another about 3-4 other picks I believe on Day 3, I'd like to maybe move up and around that top 100, maybe shop Denna

Pretty much with you on that, hoping Shane Ray or Amari gets caught with pot or something so we can snatch them

Love Shane Ray. Arguably the most athletic of the EDGE players and the best work rate of any prospect in the draft. Don't necessarily think he fits us but I'd be thrilled to be a fan of the team that drafts him.

 

[mayoclinic]

You would never trade up for a Von Miller type?

If I believed that Ray was truly Von Miller II, and was within reach, maybe. It depends on whether BB thought he was a good overall fit, which I rather doubt Ray is. I don't think he values a pure pass rusher that much - Miller has obviously become much more, to his credit (I thought he was over-hyped in 2011, and was obviously wrong). IIRC, you previously stated that you didn't see Ray as a fit, either.

 

[manxman2601]

If I believed that Ray was truly Von Miller II, and was within reach, maybe. It depends on whether BB thought he was a good overall fit, which I rather doubt Ray is. I don't think he values a pure pass rusher that much - Miller has obviously become much more, to his credit (I thought he was over-hyped in 2011, and was obviously wrong). IIRC, you previously stated that you didn't see Ray as a fit, either.

But you said you would never trade up for "a flanker" which is more general than Shane Ray. If the next Lawrence Taylor is sitting on the board five spots above you, you trade up don't you?

And fwiw, if Shane Ray is on the board at 25 and it's only going to cost me a 3rd to go up and get him, then I'm tempted - he's too good to ignore.

 

[BobDigital]

I am all for trading up unless FA guts the Pats worse than I think it will.

I am sure I don't need to tell you that trading up without a reason for a clear target in mind is a bad idea. I am going to assume you mean if there is a player the Pats find strong value in they should not be afraid to trade up to get him which is really always the case but perhaps more so this year.

Looking at the first round I ask myself who would i trade up for? There are a few options but only if things fall right for the Pats otherwise it is too expensive or not a big difference between players. Same for the 2nd round.

However in this draft I find a lot of value in the top of the 3rd (65-75) and think a trade up there could be a very good idea in any circumstance cause I think there will be a very steep drop off between 65-96. More than 33-64 or 24-32 (unless one of a few players falls which they usually don't).

 

[unoriginal]

Looking at the first round I ask myself who would i trade up for? There are a few options but only if things fall right for the Pats otherwise it is too expensive or not a big jump up. Same for the 2nd round.

Sometimes small jumps in the first are worth it.

Supposing the Pats want to do the Dominique Easley Special two years in a row, and Todd Gurley is still on the board. The Seahawks are at 31. The late 4th would be enough to leapfrog them. The Pats' late 4th and early 6th would have been enough for the Seahawks to leapfrog the Pats last year for Easley.

Patriots once swapped #14 for #13 with Chicago for #193. Chicago got Michael Haynes and (after further trading) Justin Gage. Pats go Ty Warren.

I hope I don't hear after the first day that the Pats packed up their draft room because the guy they wanted was taken by the Colts.

 

[Gabriel_p94]

I'm hoping bud Dupree catches a cold or something right before the combine. He's someone I would love to pick up in the first. I think he's worth trading up for if necessary. But if he does go before we pick I'm hoping we could trade back and select gurley in the second.

 

[BobDigital]

Sometimes small jumps in the first are worth it.

Supposing the Pats want to do the Dominique Easley Special two years in a row, and Todd Gurley is still on the board. The Seahawks are at 31. The late 4th would be enough to leapfrog them. The Pats' late 4th and early 6th would have been enough for the Seahawks to leapfrog the Pats last year for Easley.

Patriots once swapped #14 for #13 with Chicago for #193. Chicago got Michael Haynes and (after further trading) Justin Gage. Pats go Ty Warren.

I hope I don't hear after the first day that the Pats packed up their draft room because the guy they wanted was taken by the Colts.

Oh by "jump up" in that sense I meant a jump up in quality of the player. Obviously the wrong term to use as it of course lead to confusion : P

 

[mayoclinic]

But you said you would never trade up for "a flanker" which is more general than Shane Ray. If the next Lawrence Taylor is sitting on the board five spots above you, you trade up don't you?

By "flanker" I was referring to WR, and specifically Amari Cooper. Not to a pass rusher. My apologies for the confusion.

 

[manxman2601]

By "flanker" I was referring to WR, and specifically Amari Cooper. Not to a pass rusher. My apologies for the confusion.

Ah ok - I was connecting Shane Ray and Grid terminology ( doesn't he call OLBs flankers?

 

[mayoclinic]

Ah ok - I was connecting Shane Ray and Grid terminology ( doesn't he call OLBs flankers?

Grid has switched terminology more times than I can remember. Lions, Dragons, Flankers, you name it. But yes, he did use the term flanker both to refer to edge rushers and to faster outside WRs. I think he sometimes uses "flank defender" to be less ambiguous. Again, my bad for the confusion.

 

[Off The Grid]

Ah ok - I was connecting Shane Ray and Grid terminology ( doesn't he call OLBs flankers?)

My Apologies, Brother Manx. In my ongoing efforts to forge Terminology that actually breaks down skill sets in a meaningful way ~ because the conventional system falls light years short of accomplishing that ~ my Vocabulary has experienced a few growing pains!! "Flanker" or "Flank Defender" has indeed been my term for what Earthlings inexplicably refer to as "OutSide LineBackers" ~ exhausts me just saying that ~ but while my term feels perfectly appropriate, I must confess that I've never been fully satisfied with it, as both "Flanker" and "Defender" are redundant in different ways...So, yeah: that term is Under Review!!

 

[JerseyShore99]

Love Shane Ray. Arguably the most athletic of the EDGE players and the best work rate of any prospect in the draft. Don't necessarily think he fits us but I'd be thrilled to be a fan of the team that drafts him.

Best pass rusher available this year I feel, big fan of everything he offers

 

[manxman2601]

Best pass rusher available this year I feel, big fan of everything he offers

As a pure edge rusher I agree. I like Dante Fowler as an all-round player better and I love Randy Gregory's ceiling, especially if he can add weight but Ray is one of the most exciting players to watch in the draft.

 

[varjao]

If Gurley is there at 32 and BB has an under the radar player that he wants like Collins in 2013 I think he will trade down a few spots and draft in the top 5 - 10 on the 2nd round. That #32 will certainly get some good offers.

 

[mayoclinic]

If Gurley is there at 32 and BB has an under the radar player that he wants like Collins in 2013 I think he will trade down a few spots and draft in the top 5 - 10 on the 2nd round. That #32 will certainly get some good offers.

If Gurley is there are 32 I hope BB takes him. Then he can get Marcus Hardison, a couple of solid offensive line prospects, and an EDGE player for depth.

 

[varjao]

If Gurley is there are 32 I hope BB takes him. Then he can get Marcus Hardison, a couple of solid offensive line prospects, and an EDGE player for depth.

I'm on the Gurley bandwagon since he tore his ACL (I was watching that game and making a good money on the Bulldogs) and slipped in the mock drafts to the end of 1st round.

I think it fits very well because in our case it would be both BPA and need. Not a big need but still very desirable. Blount, Ridley, these guys are OK but I'm advocating a premier RB would make this offense unstoppable from a long time. Every defense we face are primarily worried about the pass because of Brady. Add a top RB that can create his own shot in the mix and DC's would have nightmares game planning for us.

BB's approach of giving almost no value to the RB position has proven to be correct although I think every RB we plug works well in part because of what I said above (Brady's effect) but had we lost to the Ravens or Seattle with no running game at all this would be a hot topic on this board for months.

I have high hopes for Gaffney, it will be interesting to monitor the RB position this off-season. My thoughts as of now:

Blount - Since he signed a cheap 2 year deal he stays. If signed only for the remaining of this past season he would be gone again.

Potential high draft pick (1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder)

Ridley - Gone

Vereen - Kept

Bolden - Kept

Gaffney/Gray/White/Potential low round draft pick - Will fight for a spot

We go with 4 RB's + 1 ST on Bolden.

3 pure backs and 1 third down/dynamic back on Vereen or White.

 

[mayoclinic]

Vereen - Kept.

I hope so, but reports today are that he's look for $5M per. He won't get it, but unless it's pure posturing he will probably get more than the Pats will pay.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Gurley would have been a top ten pick if he stayed healthy and /or wasn't suspended for signing jerseys.

If he is their at #32, I would hope that the Pats would grab him. BUT what if someone wants #32 and say the Pats can move up in both the second and third round. I've seen mock drafts where Gurley falls into the second round (although I've seen others that have him going as high as #17), imagine if BB could moved down and still end up with Gurley and maybe have a shot at DGB!

Although my gut is telling me that BB is taking Tre Jackson (G FSU) with his first pick, now where that first pick ends up being is another question.

 

[mayoclinic]

Although my gut is telling me that BB is taking Tre Jackson (G FSU) with his first pick, now where that first pick ends up being is another question.

What in God's name gives you that impression? I sure hope not.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

All of that is true. But (1) Wilfork isn't what he used to be; and (2) there aren't many VW's out there. Danny Shelton is getting hyped as a Wilfork/Ngata kind of talent. I don't see it. Not even close. And he'll be long gone.

I like Shelton. Think he will be a good player. Definitely has potential to be the next elite NT/DT.

I also think that you can stop the run just fine without a 330-350# DT in the middle. Look at Detroit, and Seattle. No classic NT among them.

Much of the Seahawks success in stopping the run comes from having Chancellor in the box. Their CBs and Earl Thomas are trusted with their assignments so the front end can focus on stopping the run when they need to.