Wilfork Restructures Contract (3 Yr 22.5 Mil)

[strngplyr]

It was a little over 2 years ago (January 22, 2012) that Vince Wilfork was doing so much damage to the Baltimore Ravens that they were triple teaming him.



Vince Wilfork leads the way for revived Patriots defense | ProFootballTalk

It was just the season before this last one (where he got injured early), where Vince Wilfork was voted first team All-Pro.



Vince Wilfork in middle of it all for Patriots - Boston.com

Yet people want to complain because he was retained for a relatively meager amount of guaranteed money. :bricks:

The only troubling thing is Wilforks slow start to 2013, was he playing hurt or did he hit "the wall"?

Trust me, I can't forget how dominating he was from basically 2004 til 2012, but what was up last year?

 

[OhExaulted1]

I'm personally thrilled that we locked down the best secondary in the NFL so that we could start an aging/injured NT who doesn't pass rush for 3 years

hopefully he doesn't play very much and all that money is incentive-based

Having Wilfork back in any kind of way that forces us to play him is literally making the worst possible use of a Revis/Browner combo imaginable. If I'm going to speculate this has to be a Kraft family PR job and not much to do with BB (let's hope). Luckily they didn't commit silly money to him and the cap hit won't be too terrible. I just hope BB benches him when he knows he needs to.

to clarify, using Wilfork situationally is fine. But they aren't paying him situational NT money they are going to be starting him I fear. And I personally believe that he is a huge hindrance in the pass rush.

We are gearing up to challenge the Broncos. We need a pass rush. Where is that coming from exactly? This isn't 1985, the "he occupies 2 blockers" nonsense is not how it works these days. Look at teams that are successful against the pass, they don't utilize a big fat run stopper.

Yeah turn this into me rooting against Vince though and you being a proud homer, that's a pretty easy/lazy message board fallback.

Yeah, you're not in a position to state any of this with authority. Bellichick was playing Spikes on the regular last year when all available metrics showed that it was very sub-optimal and he was killing our pass defense. Then all of a sudden poof.

If you're one of these posters that's just gonna appeal to BB's authority all the time and start spouting dogmas that then turn out to be false well we can just fast forward to the part where you simply state something he does cannot be wrong because he did it. He is the best coach in the league who makes a litany of errors and has consistent bad thinking in several aspects of the game that all coaches have (4th downs, 2 point conversions etc).

Bottom line is you don't know what the relationship is behind the scenes or who has what sway over what signing.

look this is just wrong. It's not true. It is false. BAD.

Our pass rush has been absolute dog**** when he's been on the field, this idea that "he takes up two blockers!" and thus allows pass rushers to roam free is a cliche that is not grounded in fact. Guys that rush the passer in nickel and dime which is what needs to be run most of the time to be a good defense these days are the ones that actually take up two blockers and disrupt the backfield in a meaningful way.

No, I didn't miss it, it's an irrelevant comment. Either he's a run stuffing nightmare who ZOMG takes up two blockers or he's a backup/situational NT. I have my theory/worry about which one the Pats will use him as and idgaf what random number <80% you think justifies his existence on the team. That's a goal post shift and not at all what I've been talking about.

I agree they need to add in the draft. Patsfan13 posted, and some others seemed to agree that we are set there.

I think people are really getting caught up in the upside they see in Armstead/Kelly/Wilfork. At least one of those guys is likely to be injured in a significant way and who even knows what performance level we can expect from them.

We have such a unique opportunity to turn it loose on the QB I don't even want hear this crap about the run defense. There is no team in today's NFL that loses because they have a sick pass defense and a porous run defense it's just not how the game is played or how OLs are constructed.

Um, what does "ordered" mean in this context? Did you not see the last "insider" glimspe we had into a contract negotiation where it was basically the Krafts talking to each other about numbers and then deciding vince over Seymour? Have you not been able to read between the lines that when they go out and have spat with Mankins, or do a PR tour about Welker and his agent or are constantly updating about Vince that they are intimitely if not nearly exclusively involved in certain signings? You never noticed that these players often refer back to their dealings with Robert or Jonathan specifically? BB is the Coach and name GM.

I have no doubt he has more autonomy than any other coach in recent history but just lol at implying it's in any way farfetched for the Krafts to veto Belichick or even "persuade" him on re-signing Vince. You think Belichick manages the cap all by himself too? They have a PR interest in the team, and they took a bad hit last summer, it doesn't seem at all implausible to me that they thought it would be better for the long term face of the team not to allow the narrative that they screw loyal veterans over to keep festering.

what kind of odds will you give me that one of Armstead/Kelly/wilfork will miss more than 5 games of the regular season?

I'll ask you the same question I asked the other fella that disappeared after trying to "win" this argument. What odds will you give me that one of Wilfork/Kelly/Armstead will miss >5 games. It's not about being injury prone it's about coming off injury and being old and fat in a ridiculously violent sport. Thinking you can rely on them all to "rotate" in a meaningful way all year is lol, we lost all three last year!

Give me odds and a price please.

Also your second paragraph is terrible. He doesn't "occupy two blockers" on passing downs, that cliche is a parody of itself at this point.

I'm not gonna measure ****s with you. how much will you wager that one doesn't get injured for >5 games next year?

yeah, that's exactly what I said lol.

Logic fail: Some boxes are blue. This object is blue. It must be a box.

Double logic fail: Some NTs help outside pass rushers by creating pressure up the middle. Our outside pass rusher would have had a great season if you sprinkle pixy dust on his stats. Our NT must have been amazing at pressuring up the middle.

I'm getting pretty bored with this, you are just regurgitating what other posters said before without even reading the thread.

Anyone who sorts by sacks as a definitive defensive pass rush metric is not to be taken seriously. Pats were middle of the pack last year in pass defense efficiency. The year before that, with Vince, they were horrendous. Your argument doesn't even make sense Jones improved without Wilfork therefore he must be better with Wilfork because what, you say so? Because rahraharah Jones got double teamed! (not true at all btw). You are just making **** up. You have no idea what you are even watching, you are just repeating cliches.
Wilfork doesn't take up two defenders on passing downs, bro. He hasn't for like 3+ years at least.

oh man, we've been reduced to claiming I don't have a penis.

Idiot, I wasn't trying to be manly, I was proving that you don't actually believe what you are typing. I don't want anyone to get hurt. It will or will not happen. I think it is likely, you apparently think that's a rage-inducing outrageously wrong position based on me being the biggest idiot in the world whose never even watched SUNDAY NFL COUNTDOWN FROM MUH COUCH.

If you actually believed it was unlikely i am giving you a profit opportunity. Why would you not take it? We can escrow with anyone you want.

Odds please.

No, I don't think you get it. Wagering is a good way to cut through the BS when someone is just talking **** they don't believe for the sake of "winning" the argument v. someone who actually stands by what they are claiming. I know based on a number of factors roughly what i think the statistical likelihood is that one of the three will miss significant time next year. I was called out for claiming it will likely happen, and called an idiot who knows nothing about football blah blah blah.

This is a good way to cut to the chase without engaging in a bunch of petty "you have no penis and clearly know less than me about football" type posts with someone who is just here to try and win an argument for the sake of it.

If DaBruinz actually believed my position was as stupidly naive as he claimed and wasn't just here to flex his internet muscles he'd be right here taking me up on my lucrative offer to donate money to him at >2-1 odds.

Now you are missing the point. If I'm an idiot for even suggesting that it is likely, I no longer have to show why I think it is the case. You have now become so certain that I am wrong it is irrelevant what I think.

Let me ask you this. If you have a pretty good idea about something and someone calls you an idiot for thinking it, would you rather a) take the 50 posts it will take to explain to that belligerent individual, if they are even receptive at all, why you are right or b) make a post that leaves them the option of either donating money to you or having to abandon the argument?

When people see you approach them at a party do they a)leave the room quickly hoping you'll corner some other unsuspecting innocent bystander and ruin his/her night instead of theirs or b)punch you repeatedly in the mouth until you shut the hell up?

 

[OhExaulted1]

Vince is back. Get over it.

 

[Miguel]

So if I understand the math correct.

Wilfork will count not a dollar more off this years cap than he would if he had been released or traded, is this correct?

That is not correct.

If traded or released, Wilfork would have counted $3.6 million.

Wilfork will at least count $4,555,000 against the cap since the minimum salary for a player with his years of experience is $955,000.

 

[OhExaulted1]

That is not correct.

If traded or released, Wilfork would have counted $3.6 million.

Wilfork will at least count $4,555,000 against the cap since the minimum salary for a player with his years of experience is $955,000.

Although the actual # will almost certainly be more that's still 7.045 in potential room. It hopefully will open the door now to some of the restructures you've blogging about and some low-level signings to fill gaps before the draft.

I'm sure there being careful not to loose that comp pick for next year, so they'll probably wait to bring in anybody else until Blount, Svitek, Wendell, Collie or Carter either re-sign or go elsewhere. FA isn't over yet.

 

[AzPatsFan]

this can't be real lol

you seem to have a good handle on the roles the other guys you posted play btw. Geno Atkins big fat run stuffer.

TY,

That is the truth. You are out of date and basing your opinions on the 2010 -2012 Pats that were rebuikdung their Defense,,even if BB refuses to allow use of the term and finds a way tot win a dozen games or more (and a Superbowl appearance too)

 

[SVN]

Our local media is in mid season form

Tanguay: 'Vince Wilfork got screwed' | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

 

[Ivan]

If you MORANS are gonna try to jump in when another scurries off at least read the post you are responding to correctly please. thx.

Yeah, get it right MORANS.


thx

 

[Ivan]

Our local media is in mid season form

Tanguay: 'Vince Wilfork got screwed' | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

Who is Gary Tanguay?

 

[supafly]

Who is Gary Tanguay?

The thought that Wilfork "got screwed" is ridiculous. I think it was a win-win situation for both sides. No one really "got screwed."

If anything, I'd tend to lean more towards Curran's thinking that the team caved to the player's demands a bit, and that they went way outside of their normal business structure with a guy who is 32 and coming off of a major injury.

 

[Ivan]

The thought that Wilfork "got screwed" is ridiculous. I think it was a win-win situation for both sides. No one really "got screwed."

If anything, I'd tend to lean more towards Curran's thinking that the team caved to the player's demands a bit, and that they went way outside of their normal business structure with a guy who is 32 and coming off of a major injury.

I agree, and i like it. This is one of those rare moments where the deal actually achieved all you would want it to. The Patriots got both cap relief and protection while showing they respected a great player and still believed in him, and they all win if he does return to form, which i think many are really underestimating. I have believed all along that they have been tracking him closely and had a really good idea of what kind of recovery he can make, as opposed to the rampant speculation and negativity from fans and media alike. had they simply decided to honor his request to release him i thin k it would have shown that they don't have confidence in his recovery and would not take the chance, however they like what they see and love the player so they were willing to take the risk at a much lower level. this is a win win and I'm glad there is a decent chance he will now finish his career here.


You don't get too many Hall Of Fame caliber players and you have to enjoy them when you do, Wilfork is a Hall of fame caliber player, and if he doesn't get there it will only be because of a lack of understanding of his dominance and importance and the incredible consistency of his performance over his career.


Brady is the GOAT and Belichick has had a good number of great players during his tenure in New England, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Wilfork has graded out game in game out over his career better than any player they have had. he had a couple of bad games at the beginning of last season, but before that i cannot remember him ever playing badly. He has been dominant week in and week out throughout his career. That's not to say he';s a better player than Brady or nearly as important but just to say that in terms of "Doing his Job" he is as good as they come.

 

[Fencer]

Who is Gary Tanguay?

A mediocre hanger-on to Celtics broadcasts.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

The thought that Wilfork "got screwed" is ridiculous. I think it was a win-win situation for both sides. No one really "got screwed."

If anything, I'd tend to lean more towards Curran's thinking that the team caved to the player's demands a bit, and that they went way outside of their normal business structure with a guy who is 32 and coming off of a major injury.

The one thing I would say is none of us know what the doctors are telling BB regarding the odds of Vince fully recovering from his injury. If the medical staff is telling BB a full recovery is around 75%, this is a good gamble and not what I consider a cave in at all. Assuming those odds were accurate and assuming the deal actually is 3 million guaranteed (with, I assume, the ability for Vince to earn much more based on games played/playing time/performance), I like this deal. IMHO the Patriots are too thin at the interior DL. But if a healthy functional Vince is added to the group (even if he is, say, 90% of what he was), that positional area becomes much much much less concerning.

On the other hand if the medical staff is telling BB that Vince 2014 is more likely than not to never be the pre injury Vince, I agree this is a bad gamble and probably is a cave in. Yet if BB is going to occasionally cave in and break from the usual fiscal discipline, I am glad he did it for a player like Vince.....someone who has been a team leader, consummate professional and always solid performer.

 

[DarrylS]

Having listened to a lot of banter on this on sports talk radio the past few weeks, and it ranges from let him go to sign the beast and honor the contract.

Cutting to the chase, is that with Wilfork in the middle will require him tying up two players and Chandler Jones will no longer be double teamed.. so our pass rush may improve. As good as Vellano and Jones seemed to be, they were guys who could be blocked 1-1....

With Revis in the fold.. everyone on defense automatically gets better, with Wilfork and Mayo coming back adds to the belief that our D may be "kick ass" next year. This is a good move...

 

[Miguel]

Our local media is in mid season form

Tanguay: 'Vince Wilfork got screwed' | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

Wow!!! Tanguay's commentary illustrates the folly of commenting on a contract without knowing the details.

Really, Wilfork got screwed in his 2010 contract????
His deal made him the highest defensive tackle at the time.
» Over the Cap- Top NFL Contracts: Defensive Tackle

FYI for Trenni Kusnierek - Wilfork's 2010 contract included an annual weight bonus.

2010: $150,000
2011: $135,000
2012: $300,000
2013: $300,000
2014: $300,000

As of now, no one knows if the weight bonus is still in the contract.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Who is Gary Tanguay?

Ron Borges light.

 

[Rob0729]

Our local media is in mid season form

Tanguay: 'Vince Wilfork got screwed' | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

The next good point Tanguay makes will be his first. How this guy has multiple jobs in this town is amazing. He is the worst.

 

[Kontradiction]

I like the contract. It works out well for both sides. If Vince returns to form, he earns every penny he's due. If he doesn't, the team has covered their asses and can move on from him next season. Why are there people complaining?

As for the thread pretty much getting ruined from page three on, I don't think TyronePoole realizes that there is a draft that's relatively deep at positions of need and that the team will most likely be taking a 5-tech DE and a 3-tech DT sub-rusher in the first three rounds.

 

[Rob0729]

Ron Borges light.

He's really not Ron Borges Lite. Borges uses every opportunity to bash Belichick. Tanguay isn't smart enough to have an agenda.

 

[Rob0729]

Wow!!! Tanguay's commentary illustrates the folly of commenting on a contract without knowing the details.

Really, Wilfork got screwed in his 2010 contract????
His deal made him the highest defensive tackle at the time.
» Over the Cap- Top NFL Contracts: Defensive Tackle

FYI for Trenni Kusnierek - Wilfork's 2010 contract included an annual weight bonus.

2010: $150,000
2011: $135,000
2012: $300,000
2013: $300,000
2014: $300,000

As of now, no one knows if the weight bonus is still in the contract.

I would assume there will be a weight bonus in his new deal. His weight will be a bigger issue now more than ever. When I say that, I don't mean he is the fattest he has ever been. I mean to return from injury and play at a high level in his later years of his NFL career, he will most likely be under his average playing weight of his last five years (taking 2012 when he was a relative bean pole out of the equation).