Belichick wanted Jakobi. Was convinced out of it by the new guys picking players

[jdlboot14]

There will be all sorts of crap coming out in the "news" the next few months. People love to be the one to spill "insider" beans...
Who cares.
The only thing I care about is who will be the final decision maker on personnel.
If Groh pushed for Mac, and to get JSS instead of keep Meyers, then I don't want him running this years draft or FA.
But, if Bobby is the one starting to crawl into football decisions like this, then that's a bigger problem.
I really think we do need a conventional GM - one that both Krafts respect to be THE buckstop.
I'd trust Pioli to come back. And maybe Zeigler, although he's still an unknown.

 

[RIpats88]

You could go a step further and start with not extending Cooks. We would have been fine with him. Once we did that we had two off seasons of WR being a circus of signing and releasing scrubs trying to make **** stick to the wall, which ultimately the Harry pick was part of that nonsense.

Bill knew Gronk was retiring and Edelman was older and failed to replace his production.

Worse bill was going to trade gronk before 2018 to Detroit. Which would’ve meant no 6th Super Bowl

 

[RIpats88]

For years we’ve been told Bill was the GM and decision maker. And Kraft stayed out of it.

Now that it’s been a disaster it never was him? It was all Kraft?

 

[Guts]

For years we’ve been told Bill was the GM and decision maker. And Kraft stayed out of it.

Now that it’s been a disaster it never was him? It was all Kraft?

It was all BB
We know BB wouldn't keep extending his contract if Kraft was meddling

 

[upstater1]

we went 10-6 that year and made the playoffs. mac being ass now does'nt mean he was bade in 2021.

Rookies get figured out. That's what happened to him. A lot of QBs come in and have some success, for a time. But the NFL will figure you out.

 

[upstater1]

Bill knew Gronk was retiring and Edelman was older and failed to replace his production.

Worse bill was going to trade gronk before 2018 to Detroit. Which would’ve meant no 6th Super Bowl

???

The Rams scored 3 points in that Super Bowl.

But maybe if we weren't so desperate to send draft picks all over the place to win Super Bowls, we would have had more ammunition to grab players. We wasted picks on Demaryious, Sanu, Antonio, and yes Harry. These were 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th. On WRs.

 

[Ring 6]

Bill knew Gronk was retiring and Edelman was older and failed to replace his production.

Worse bill was going to trade gronk before 2018 to Detroit. Which would’ve meant no 6th Super Bowl

He signed Antonio brown and Kraft released him over an article about something he was never charged with.

He was never trading gronk. Gronk was running around getting his face in the news saying maybe I’ll retire, maybe I won’t? There was an event at Gillette and he showed up and made will he or won’t he a story. Bb called Detroit (because Patricia was there) and created a trade story so gronk would **** or get off the pot. Gronk then apologized for the way he was acting.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I love Belichick and wish him and Nike the best. I think he had one more run in him with this draft and free agency. There is nothing that’s going to be spectacular about the new faces wowing me in this draft. No way BB f’s up the 3rd pick, Too much elite talent there. He went bpa last year with Gonzales and I don’t fault him for that. The little we saw of him going up against Aj Brown, Hill and Wilson was truly great stuff.

What was looking like a promising overall draft at the tackle position in last years draft only produced 2 left tackles. Wright, Jones and Paris were pretty awful in their first season and all played rt while Skoranski was a guard. Their block rates were atrocious. They’ll get better through more playing time but anyone suspecting one of those alleged LT’s to save this season was mistaken. Still have no idea why the Pats didn’t make a run Jaelyn Duncan who was picked in the 6th, they had so many chances at the project that turned out to be pretty darn good one and one of the two that actually made starts at LT. Sidy Sow ending up grading out great. He lead all rookies in run blocking and rated 3rd overall in the nfl while run blocking in gap schemes. Great, great find in the 4th.

Mac was the right choice but he sucks. The decision to hire Patricia and Judge out of loyalty coupled with having to keep running with Mac because he was the high pick sank BB and he went down with the ship. Certainly not because of his coaching because he’s the best there ever was. Bottom line, he’s gone and we’re moving on, for better or worse.

On a side note, as bad as some say his drafting was I find it odd how much of his scouting office is spread out across the league having success. Does give
Me pause as to why this team wasn’t benefiting more from those guys while they were here. Don’t think we’ll ever know unless we hear it from those guys themselves. It’s been reported without sources (imagine that in todays media world) that he made Harry the pick over his scouts recommendations but until I find a quote directly from someone involved in the draft that he overruled them it’s all hearsay.

As far as Meyers, it seemed like the board was split on resigning him. There were fans on the fence but quickly jumped on the other side once things with jjss turned south. Yeah, in hind sight they should of retained him. Personally I liked the idea of jj but now I ask who was in charge of the physical or if there ever even was one?

 

[Ring 6]

The end of the dynasty starts with the Harry selection. BB can't make excuses about that. He wanted Harry despite the scouting staff's recommendation otherwise. If they pick another WR things would have turned out differently. Stop making this so complicated. The dominoes fall starting with Harry....

Harry wouldn’t have mattered if Kraft didn’t release AB over an accusation he was never charged with.

 

[lancerman]

Bill knew Gronk was retiring and Edelman was older and failed to replace his production.

Worse bill was going to trade gronk before 2018 to Detroit. Which would’ve meant no 6th Super Bowl

Bill has consistently shown over the last 7 or so years that he was far more willing to play towards some perceived idea of "value" and get rid of players that he thought were running their course or on a bad contract without any consideration for how to replace them.

He wanted rid of Brady in 2017. Kraft spared him from suffering through injury prone Jimmy. He got rid of Brady finally in 2019 and.... had no ****ing plan. He had Stidham. Then was petrified once he realized what he was about to trot out there and got the ghost of Cam Newton.

He was despertaely trying to get rid of Gronk.... then proved he was incapable of drafting a replacement TE and was burning draft picks on the position until he finally landed on Hunter Henry in free agency (after Jonnu flopped) and even then he's just a solid mid tier TE. He had no plan besides "we should get out of paying for Gronk and try to get trade value".

He had Amendola on dirt cheap paycuts each year until he finally walked, knew Edelman was declining, and got rid of Cooks and couldn't find a WR.

How many solid lineman did we let walk and go to another team where they had success only to not adequately replace them.

The entire offense is a story of Bill wanting to move on from guys early that he had no real plan of replacing and just thought it would work out.

The only position on that side of the ball he actually hit on was RB with Michel, Harris and Stevenson. And only one of them is still here and he just had a dissapointing season.

As you said, Kraft saying no to Bill in 2017 probably enabled a 6th Super Bowl.

Bill probably had one option at this point and it was to basically say "you know what, I just want to coach, can we bring in the best GM we can find and have them take the reigns". That was the only way to feasibly keep him. Since that didn't happen, the inevitable result occured. Time to move on

 

[upstater1]

didn't jakobi say there was no effort to try and keep him?

it's more likely imo Bill let Jakobi go because he was one of the "malcontents" in his eyes from the patricia season.

Assessments get made prior to FA windows. Not after. These decisions are made in February

 

[upstater1]

Bill has consistently shown over the last 7 or so years that he was far more willing to play towards some perceived idea of "value" and get rid of players that he thought were running their course or on a bad contract without any consideration for how to replace them.

He wanted rid of Brady in 2017. Kraft spared him from suffering through injury prone Jimmy. He got rid of Brady finally in 2019 and.... had no ****ing plan. He had Stidham. Then was petrified once he realized what he was about to trot out there and got the ghost of Cam Newton.

He was despertaely trying to get rid of Gronk.... then proved he was incapable of drafting a replacement TE and was burning draft picks on the position until he finally landed on Hunter Henry in free agency (after Jonnu flopped) and even then he's just a solid mid tier TE. He had no plan besides "we should get out of paying for Gronk and try to get trade value".

He had Amendola on dirt cheap paycuts each year until he finally walked, knew Edelman was declining, and got rid of Cooks and couldn't find a WR.

How many solid lineman did we let walk and go to another team where they had success only to not adequately replace them.

The entire offense is a story of Bill wanting to move on from guys early that he had no real plan of replacing and just thought it would work out.

The only position on that side of the ball he actually hit on was RB with Michel, Harris and Stevenson. And only one of them is still here and he just had a dissapointing season.

As you said, Kraft saying no to Bill in 2017 probably enabled a 6th Super Bowl.

Bill probably had one option at this point and it was to basically say "you know what, I just want to coach, can we bring in the best GM we can find and have them take the reigns". That was the only way to feasibly keep him. Since that didn't happen, the inevitable result occured. Time to move on

Wickersham said he wanted to get rid of him. But Wickersham's story doesnt mesh with Lynch's revelation about Belichick refusing to trade him.

 

[lancerman]

I love Belichick and wish him and Nike the best. I think he had one more run in him with this draft and free agency. There is nothing that’s going to be spectacular about the new faces wowing me in this draft. No way BB f’s up the 3rd pick, Too much elite talent there. He went bpa last year with Gonzales and I don’t fault him for that. The little we saw of him going up against Aj Brown, Hill and Wilson was truly great stuff.

What was looking like a promising overall draft at the tackle position in last years draft only produced 2 left tackles. Wright, Jones and Paris were pretty awful in their first season and all played rt while Skoranski was a guard. Their block rates were atrocious. They’ll get better through more playing time but anyone suspecting one of those alleged LT’s to save this season was mistaken. Still have no idea why the Pats didn’t make a run Jaelyn Duncan who was picked in the 6th, they had so many chances at the project that turned out to be pretty darn good one and one of the two that actually made starts at LT. Sidy Sow ending up grading out great. He lead all rookies in run blocking and rated 3rd overall in the nfl while run blocking in gap schemes. Great, great find in the 4th.

Mac was the right choice but he sucks. The decision to hire Patricia and Judge out of loyalty coupled with having to keep running with Mac because he was the high pick sank BB and he went down with the ship. Certainly not because of his coaching because he’s the best there ever was. Bottom line, he’s gone and we’re moving on, for better or worse.

On a side note, as bad as some say his drafting was I find it odd how much of his scouting office is spread out across the league having success. Does give
Me pause as to why this team wasn’t benefiting more from those guys while they were here. Don’t think we’ll ever know unless we hear it from those guys themselves. It’s been reported without sources (imagine that in todays media world) that he made Harry the pick over his scouts recommendations but until I find a quote directly from someone involved in the draft that he overruled them it’s all hearsay.

As far as Meyers, it seemed like the board was split on resigning him. There were fans on the fence but quickly jumped on the other side once things with jjss turned south. Yeah, in hind sight they should of retained him. Personally I liked the idea of jj but now I ask who was in charge of the physical or if there ever even was one?

That part doesn't surprise me at all. We probably DO have good scouts. Bill gets the final say and there have been too many stories of him overuling his scouts to not bake that into the cake.

 

[stcjones]

View attachment 55899

The point of posting this isn't so much to rehash what could've been when Belichick is gone. After all, the buck stops with Belichick. He was the one who made the final decision. It's more to look at the future. We now have a new wave of analytic people running the team, and they will look at JuJu's superior numbers. Meyers was a prototypical Belichick WR: not fast, but he excelled at finding space, and he put his body on the line. Tough guy.

(By the way: Is it absolutely known that Belichick was the one watching Baylor games on tape 3 years ago?)

You are right ….he always had the final decision on things and many times he was wrong . Did he let Meyers go because of his screw up on that rogue lateral play? As we know really well…..Bill held grudges which is one his major faults

 

[Betterthanmost]

The end of the dynasty starts with the Harry selection. BB can't make excuses about that. He wanted Harry despite the scouting staff's recommendation otherwise. If they pick another WR things would have turned out differently. Stop making this so complicated. The dominoes fall starting with Harry....

The Harry pick is even more egregious when you see the production of players picked after him. That draft was a can’t missed WR one. I am a huge fan of BB but Harry was as bad as Joe and Matt as offensive coaches. I can understand why the Krafts are questioning him to the point that they have treated him like this, but if they think they are these smart football minds and can make the decision that brings them back to the Super Bowls, then they don’t understand what happened the last 24 years. Nothing against Mayo but team BB is properly pissed off.

 

[upstater1]

You are right ….he always had the final decision on things and many times he was wrong . Did he let Meyers go because of his screw up on that rogue lateral play? As we know really well…..Bill held grudges which is one his major faults

So you don't believe Callahan

 

[Patriot Missile]

Bill has consistently shown over the last 7 or so years that he was far more willing to play towards some perceived idea of "value" and get rid of players that he thought were running their course or on a bad contract without any consideration for how to replace them.

He wanted rid of Brady in 2017. Kraft spared him from suffering through injury prone Jimmy. He got rid of Brady finally in 2019 and.... had no ****ing plan. He had Stidham. Then was petrified once he realized what he was about to trot out there and got the ghost of Cam Newton.

He was despertaely trying to get rid of Gronk.... then proved he was incapable of drafting a replacement TE and was burning draft picks on the position until he finally landed on Hunter Henry in free agency (after Jonnu flopped) and even then he's just a solid mid tier TE. He had no plan besides "we should get out of paying for Gronk and try to get trade value".

He had Amendola on dirt cheap paycuts each year until he finally walked, knew Edelman was declining, and got rid of Cooks and couldn't find a WR.

How many solid lineman did we let walk and go to another team where they had success only to not adequately replace them.

The entire offense is a story of Bill wanting to move on from guys early that he had no real plan of replacing and just thought it would work out.

The only position on that side of the ball he actually hit on was RB with Michel, Harris and Stevenson. And only one of them is still here and he just had a dissapointing season.

As you said, Kraft saying no to Bill in 2017 probably enabled a 6th Super Bowl.

Bill probably had one option at this point and it was to basically say "you know what, I just want to coach, can we bring in the best GM we can find and have them take the reigns". That was the only way to feasibly keep him. Since that didn't happen, the inevitable result occured. Time to move on

You forgot Onwenu and Sow. Douglas seemed like a pretty decent pick as well. But yeah, needed to be better overall.

As far as Tight end he signed the best two available that year. Jonnu Smith was coming off a monster season but flat out **** the bed here. Henry has been solid despite having mediocre at best qbs.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

I totally agree with this.

But this is Belichick trying to save face maybe. Consider this:

CONFIRMED: Mac Jones was NOT a Bill Belichick guy: Per:
@jeffphowe
“Belichick appeared content to wait for Davis Mills, who fell to Caserio’s Texans in the third round, but relinquished to the staff’s strong push for Jones, according to league sources. After previously vowing to be more collaborative, Belichick recognized he couldn’t go back on his word with his first selection under the new approach.” Wow.

Now, I know all this is second hand coming from Belichick, and I don't trust Howe and Callahan anyway. BUT ... I think these may be the decisions made by the front office guys. Belichick may have buckled to pressure.

This is maybe a little more concerning.

I wonder what Belichick's pal Saban really had to say about Mac Jones.

Interesting nuggets
I don’t blame BB. Kraft got ahead of the firing with all his or Mayo’s leaks.
Even if Mayo was the one who leaked. it was with Krafts blessing.
Otherwise he would know he would be jeopardizing his hire.
Know its BB’s turn.
If I end up believing BB more than Kraft.
I will always be a Pats fan. But I will refuse to renew my tickets.
RK threw all of us under the bus with Deflategate. Especially Brady
He holds his players to standards that does not apply to him. Rub and tug Gate
If he is not being genuine about the fallout
Then that will be the last straw with me
I love going to the games so I will give him the benefit of the doubt
But with my eyes wide open

 

[JohnJH]

Looks like Belichick’s friends are releasing his defense today, with this and with the Mac Jones info. If true, your broader point is correct - BB has been responsible for some bad decisions but the rest of the team has been no better, so we should be concerned about the front office remaining intact.

The Scouting/Personnel Department greatly concerns me. Not interviewing candidates for GM and other positions that can improve our scouting and personnel moves is a mistake. I'm willing to give Mayo the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. But I currently have no confidence in the current scouting and personnel staff.

 

[Boomer B]

View attachment 55899

The point of posting this isn't so much to rehash what could've been when Belichick is gone. After all, the buck stops with Belichick. He was the one who made the final decision. It's more to look at the future. We now have a new wave of analytic people running the team, and they will look at JuJu's superior numbers. Meyers was a prototypical Belichick WR: not fast, but he excelled at finding space, and he put his body on the line. Tough guy.

(By the way: Is it absolutely known that Belichick was the one watching Baylor games on tape 3 years ago?)

What was your stance on this when it happened? I know a lot of us on here were questioning it but were told by the “in Bill we trust” crowd we didn’t know what we were talking about.