Addressing the LT Position

[jimnance]

Not defending Solder,but he's a very small part of why Brady's been hammered this year.
Cannon has been worse in pass pro. Allen has allowed a # of bonecrushing hits on TB, gillislee has flat sucked in blitz pickup. White is excellent and Lewis is decent but theyre not always in there.
Pats have gone way more vertical which obviously increases time TB has the ball.
And the loss of je11 can't be understated. Other than da,he's the only one consistently open on quick,short throws. And he can only play a fraction of jules' snaps.
That's not to say Solder has been good this year. He hasn't. But he's not the only one or the only reason. Gillislee needs to get his **** together pass blocking. Ditto Allen.Dont know enough of their histories to know if they've always sucked at this. But the rest of the ol was great last year. No reason to think they can't turn it around. They better before Giselle has to wear black.

 

[JayNM]

YOu've given up on Garcia?

Honestly, for next year, the reasonable expectation for Garcia is the back-up role. He could really use a season to groom behind the scenes, but that isn't happening anymore.

Next year he would be our default starting LT and I think he'll be 100%, however relying on him to be good and an actual improvement over Solder, considering we'll have to protect a 41 year old Brady (or Jimmy) , seems too risky for me

LT is close to number one on my list of concerns. I guess that if BB and the rest of the staff trust who they got, I'll believe at first, but I already know that they aren't foolproof either.

 

[Sciz]

Solder is missing from practice again today. There’s something going on, and I’m thinking we may never find out exactly what.

 

[GoWhalers]

Not defending Solder,but he's a very small part of why Brady's been hammered this year.
Cannon has been worse in pass pro. Allen has allowed a # of bonecrushing hits on TB, gillislee has flat sucked in blitz pickup. White is excellent and Lewis is decent but theyre not always in there.
Pats have gone way more vertical which obviously increases time TB has the ball.
And the loss of je11 can't be understated. Other than da,he's the only one consistently open on quick,short throws. And he can only play a fraction of jules' snaps.
That's not to say Solder has been good this year. He hasn't. But he's not the only one or the only reason. Gillislee needs to get his **** together pass blocking. Ditto Allen.Dont know enough of their histories to know if they've always sucked at this. But the rest of the ol was great last year. No reason to think they can't turn it around. They better before Giselle has to wear black.

I agree with most of this, especially the impact of the loss of Edelman which has to have directly impacted Brady's hold time.

It's a great reminder that a team is the sum of its working parts. Just like there's no value in having a V8 engine in a car that's only intended to go to the grocery store and back, there's no value in having an all-world left tackle if you only need to block for 1.5 seconds. (I'm making up the numbers, please don't kill me here)

By the same token, when you need to drive that same car cross-country or start blocking for 4+ seconds, suddenly the "weaknesses" in that part show up. But are they really weaknesses, or a change in the intended use?

 

[luuked]

Solder also missed practice last Tuesday for "non-injury" reasons. He's mentioned once that he was "getting treatment", but it's difficult to think that's for a football related injury since he hasn't been listed on the injury report during the regular season. Just speculating, but such "treatments" could be related to his previous cancer issues.

Possible, but given that he missed essentially the entire training camp and preseason I doubt that. If this absence was even closely related to some cancer treatments I would be shocked if BB had not tried to get more insurance at LT especially after Garcia was lost for the season. If it is complementary treatment like testosterone it shouldnt really affect him that much and doesnt require him to skip days.

That said, I agree that his play has been sub-par. However, I think that the sack and hit stats are due at least partly to the quality of the DLs the Pats have faced so far, and partly related to TB holding the ball a bit longer than he has in the past (which TB acknowledged this week).

WRT attempting to draft an LT "high" in 2018 to replace Solder ... using a 1st-rounder on an LT prospect seems to have become much more of a hit-or-miss proposition over the past few drafts. Even beyond the notable "busts" (Greg Robinson), a few more have required 2+ seasons to become even NFL solid players.

He has not been consistent this year at all and looks sluggish but anyone who thinks you can just get someone better off the street (or via reasonable trade) that will gel soon with the rest of the OL crew is a fool. Similarly, like you said it is easy to say we will just draft his replacement next year. There are more first/second round busts in the last couple of years than players that actually fulfilled their potential on OL. Especially with where we are usually drafting at.

 

[archstanton543]

There are more first/second round busts in the last couple of years than players that actually fulfilled their potential on OL. Especially with where we are usually drafting at.

That's still not a reason not to draft a LT in the next draft at 1 or 2.

 

[luuked]

That's still not a reason not to draft a LT in the next draft at 1 or 2.

And who claimed that ?

The issue is people saying we need to replace Solder and just draft someone as if it is that easy. Getting someone like Solder out of the draft is already a success story. Getting someone better is not as likely as some think.

Obviously you need to take some shots either way.

 

[archstanton543]

And who claimed that ?

The issue is people saying we need to replace Solder and just draft someone as if it is that easy. Getting someone like Solder out of the draft is already a success story. Getting someone better is not as likely as some think.

Obviously you need to take some shots either way.

Well, it is that easy. The Pats needed a LT back in 2011 because they knew Light was retiring and then he stepped in the next year as the starting LT.

 

[RayClay]

At the risk of being labeled a bit reactionary, Solder's play has been bad -- I think that much is indisputable. I might go a step further and say that not only is his play bad, but it's concerning. What I mean by this is that there appears to be something wrong, either mentally or physically. He looks a bit 'off', for lack of a better term. I certainly hope that his play will improve and he'll come into his own as the season progresses but I'm not terribly optimistic this will happen.

Let's assume that Solder continues to struggle and does not round into form. How would we address this situation? Obviously a trade is an option but are there options internally? Waddle is a natural RT if I remember correctly, but given his strong play when filling in for Cannon would others be open to the idea of trying Waddle at LT?

Waddle played LT all through college and that's where he is on the depth chart here. He won the RT job at Detroit because it was available. Doesn't seem he's considered more than a backup, though.

Either they stea a mid-high pick, steal a draftee like Vollmer, who should have bee a 1st [athletically] or steal a project from another team. Toughest position to fill these days IMO. Gotta be 6ft6,6-8 agile and strong, then minimum then they have to be able to play.

Barring retirement or FA, I'd get used to seeing solder
r

 

[RayClay]

Well, it is that easy. The Pats needed a LT back in 2011 because they knew Light was retiring and then he stepped in the next year as the starting LT.

Because they traded Seymour and got the 17th pick. You have to get the pick first, unless you get a German guy new to football.

 

[RayClay]

With regard to drafting a LT, I still think Garcia is going to be really good here. I tend to think that had he not been injured he would've been able to gain some traction and possibly be starting at LT right now. He's big, physical, yet still athletic and quick. He has the makings of being a really good LT. He's on IR, I believe, however I don't know if he's going to return to the active roster this season or if his injury is a season ender. Perhaps it's been mentioned and I missed it.

He's not big enough [weight]. He is supposed to be agile and a worthwhile project. A project is a project. Hope he's doing some serious lifting/nutrition.

 

[PP2]

Possible, but given that he missed essentially the entire training camp and preseason I doubt that. If this absence was even closely related to some cancer treatments I would be shocked if BB had not tried to get more insurance at LT especially after Garcia was lost for the season. If it is complementary treatment like testosterone it shouldnt really affect him that much and doesnt require him to skip days.

I actually am thinking that it has to be cancer related- he has been NFI on the injury list way too many times.

 

[Ivan]

Stop this nonsense. Solder is Pro-Bowl caliber............ even though he hasn't gotten any Pro-Bowl nods. And he's a rock............ even though he was horrible in the SuperBowl. And he's being paid $10m ............ but I guess that's sunk cost now. And he's going through a lot with his kid................ so that basically obliges us to hold on to him no matter what. And he's hurt but I'd rather have an injured Solder be on the field than..................... ok nevermind, you got me. What are our options? Trade?

My first thought was that was at truly douchebag post.

 

[mgteich]

Because they traded Seymour and got the 17th pick. You have to get the pick first, unless you get a German guy new to football.

Vollmer played football from the time he was 14. He had a college career at the University of Houston under the same coach that gave us Kaczur. Gosselin (Dallas paper) had him ranked as a 2nd rounder even though he wasn't given an invite to the combine. Dante had tried him out privately.

But yes, we were very lucky to get Vollmer in the 2nd,

 

[RayClay]

Vollmer played football from the time he was 14. He had a college career at the University of Houston under the same coach that gave us Kaczur. Gosselin (Dallas paper) had him ranked as a 2nd rounder even though he wasn't given an invite to the combine. Dante had tried him out privately.

But yes, we were very lucky to get Vollmer in the 2nd,

OK, he played for Dusseldorf. Not sure how much OLine he played there since he started at TE at Houston, but he played well there. He also had back surgery there. He definitely was a first rounder athletically.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

My intuition is Solder is toughing it out with a chronic injury...I hope I am wrong.

yes, Suckonitis

 

[supafly]

If it is complementary treatment like testosterone it shouldnt really affect him that much and doesnt require him to skip days.

He has not been consistent this year at all and looks sluggish but anyone who thinks you can just get someone better off the street (or via reasonable trade) that will gel soon with the rest of the OL crew is a fool.

I too, had considered the possibility of testosterone treatments, but didn't know enough about it to try and speculate too much about such a fragile topic.

Agreed on the fact that he's undoubtedly our best option for 2017, even if he's struggling. Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind if those struggles become magnified, but I'd still agree that our best option would almost certainly be on our team.

 

[203Pat]

He's wearing that kinesio tape on the same arm he tore his biceps on a couple years ago and he honestly looks pretty bad this year. Maybe he reinjured it at some point and it's still bothering him or maybe he is just lacking strength due to reinjury. I have never thought he was elite but definitely an above average LT so I would assume there is something there.

 

[Tony2046]

Well, it is that easy. The Pats needed a LT back in 2011 because they knew Light was retiring and then he stepped in the next year as the starting LT.

LT is probably one of the hardest OL positions to fill. I disagree that it's easy. I can't remember who said it (Lombardi?) but it was said that teams draft for LT's and if they don't work out they use them as a guard or RT. But I do agree with your point to draft an LT with a high round pick.

 

[Tony2046]

I actually am thinking that it has to be cancer related- he has been NFI on the injury list way too many times.

I hope not.