BB criticism, moderation, and open discussion

[Kontradiction]

I particularly enjoyed the PatsFans.com feature article that captured JE11's unbridled excitement as he blasted out a joyous selfie image wishing Danny Amendola a most happy birthday. I can only imagine the heartfelt tug Danny felt after he refreshed his Twitter account to find a JE11 original selfie taken in the JE11 foyer on this most special day.
I was so moved by this magnanimous display of friendship I'm going to have my closest friends send me pictures of themselves on my birthday too.....though I don't expect a 500 word synopsis by one of Ian's crack journalists, that would be silly.

Was the tug Danny felt similar to the tug Robert felt in January of 2019?

 

[Observer]

"Is that the general rule now? One must not utter a bad word about Saint Belichick or face purgatory?"

I mean, c'mon, go read a little bit of what you've posted in that thread. You'll see repetition of the same few narratives, links to opinions/sources that are lacking any nuance or critical analysis of the situation, and a whole lot of dead horses being beat.

I really can't see why you'd be legitimately surprised that thread was locked.

If the thread was left open and on the main forum, perhaps there would be no need to create new threads. Just a thought.

 

[skinnydog]

Not to say that BB can't get some criticism, but sustained excellence in the NFL is extremely hard to do. Most teams can't even handle it for the length of a rookie contract, let alone be highly competitive/dynastic for nearly 20 years.

But, people using Brady's success to put BB down often overlook the fact that Brady got to pick a team that was essentially a QB away from excellence. Don't take anything away from Brady either, because getting in sync with a new staff and teammates isn't as easy as he made it look. They're both all time greats.

Brady, by most reports, had only a couple teams to chose from. Lots of folks were surprised he chose Tampa, a perennial bad franchise with a coach whose offensive style didn’t seem to suit Brady.

 

[skinnydog]

The Brady forum is actually popping off right now. So it’s not obscure. But I honestly don’t know why that thread is in there. If anything, the Gronkaneers thread should now be in there and the BB Criticism thread moved back here.

I’m surprised that folks are so sensitive to BB criticism, that threads were moved to a Tom Brady forum. I still think he is a great, great coach, but certainly not above criticism.

 

[borg]

Was the tug Danny felt similar to the tug Robert felt in January of 2019?

Without a PatsFans.com feature article written by Ian's crack staff of social media sleuths who search for team-related Twitter high jinks, I'm not informed enough to comment on every team-related tug.
In this case, I'm guessing Ian likely maintains a hands-off policy when it comes to Robert's tugs.

 

[Sicilian]

I would agree with moving threads like this once free agency starts (or at least once moves start happening in some fashion) just to keep things from getting cluttered. But for now there's literally nothing happening. I tend to put these types of thread on Ignore, not because I don't think there's reason for criticism of BB, but because I personally can't stand this style of doing it. It feels mob-like, and I don't care for it. But that's what Thread Ignore is made for: I don't have to see it, my front page stays clear, and other people get to do what they want.

 

[venecol]

The Brady forum is actually popping off right now. So it’s not obscure. But I honestly don’t know why that thread is in there. If anything, the Gronkaneers thread should now be in there and the BB Criticism thread moved back here.

STFU. Moving the Gronkaneers thread will be like losing Brady all over again. I don't think I can take it.

 

[Ian]

Without a PatsFans.com feature article written by Ian's crack staff of social media sleuths who search for team-related Twitter high jinks, I'm not informed enough to comment on every team-related tug.
In this case, I'm guessing Ian likely maintains a hands-off policy when it comes to Robert's tugs.

I don't exactly have a staff - it's just Robert - and his contributions are specifically social-media-related entries. That's essentially what I asked him to do since he's younger and he's more in-tune with that stuff than I am. Honestly, he's done a terrific job and I wouldn't overanalyze it. And I wouldn't call them "feature articles" - they're just meant to be light reading for some of the off-field stuff with the players and not meant to be much beyond that. Pretty sure none of us are out for a Pulitzer Prize

 

[venecol]

Brady, by most reports, had only a couple teams to chose from. Lots of folks were surprised he chose Tampa, a perennial bad franchise with a coach whose offensive style didn’t seem to suit Brady.

I seem to recall many predictions that Tampa's OL sucked and that Brady was going to get killed. It's amusing how now the haters say he went to a loaded team, when originally nobody gave that team a chance to do anything the very 1st year.

 

[h0c2000]

I don't exactly have a staff - it's just Robert - and his contributions are specifically social-media-related entries. That's essentially what I asked him to do since he's younger and he's more in-tune with that stuff than I am. Honestly, he's done a terrific job and I wouldn't overanalyze it. And I wouldn't call them "feature articles" - they're just meant to be light reading for some of the off-field stuff with the players and not meant to be much beyond that. Pretty sure none of us are out for a Pulitzer Prize

That's right Ian, shoot higher. Nobel Prize or nothing!

 

[Ian]

Regarding moderation - I already talked about this last night. I don't have an issue with criticizing the coach, I'm no stranger to that recently either. However, moving forward, it will require more effort and insight. Those who just chime in with "he sucks" without offering anything constructive or beating the same dead horse might simply find themselves removed from the thread for the sake of trying to keep it a productive discussion, rather than just another b***h session. And I'll be instructing the mods to let me handle it, so if I kick you out, I'll tell you why.

As I mentioned last night, the other part of me - and most of us older fans - have plenty of experience of this team being terrible long before this run. Obviously, this offseason is going to be key to everyone's opinion of him moving forward and one can only hope that many of the issues being discussed are addressed with a reasonable solution. After all, it's February, let's see how things look at the end of April before we start making drastic assumptions.

Again, I've certainly expressed my irritation over the QB situation but it is what it is, I'm not going to bring it up in every thread and I think that's sort of where the mods and I am with this topic. Dont' mention the same argument, try and be constructive and discuss what you would do differently or what you think they should do. We already know what has been done, the point of a forum like this is to have discussions talking about possibilities and solutions or just the overall situation with different scenarios. Otherwise, we'll spend the next six months with dozens of Belichick threads beating that topic into the ground and that isn't fun for anyone

 

[borg]

I don't exactly have a staff - it's just Robert - and his contributions are specifically social-media-related entries. That's essentially what I asked him to do since he's younger and he's more in-tune with that stuff than I am. Honestly, he's done a terrific job and I wouldn't overanalyze it. And I wouldn't call them "feature articles" - they're just meant to be light reading for some of the off-field stuff with the players and not meant to be much beyond that. Pretty sure none of us are out for a Pulitzer Prize

Just having some fun
Question: Do your articles/features get eyeballs beyond this site?

 

[venecol]

I’m surprised that folks are so sensitive to BB criticism, that threads were moved to a Tom Brady forum. I still think he is a great, great coach, but certainly not above criticism.

The funny thing is that BB himself doesn't look at anything done by a player the past few years never mind about 20 years. A player could have a great performance for 2 or 3 years, and even after winning a SB, BB will say "but what have you done for me lately?"

He's all business and doesn't give a damn about past success. So, in that light, why can't he be held to the same standards he holds others to? BB has been f**king up recently and nothing he did the last 20 years matters. Let's see what he does in 2021 with all this cash and a relatively good draft position. This is it, time to put up or shut up. No excuses. Everyone, and I mean everyone is going to be looking at what he does under a microscope. He either performs or should get same treatment as any other player. The Patriots Way says "team first over individual accomplishments, no preferential treatment."

 

[Ian]

That's right Ian, shoot higher. Nobel Prize or nothing!

LOL, I will say I've tried raising the bar on some of the things I've written in the past few months. I've always liked to write, so the goal over the offseason will be do try and put out stuff that's at least informative, interesting, and worth people's time.

 

[Boomer B]

We can’t just close our eyes and ears to the Belichick/Brady discussions. It’s being talked about all over North America and likely will until these guys retire. I live in Vancouver and last night I had a 10 minute discussion with a buddy who asked me what the hell happened and why Brady left the team. Kinda odd that on a Patriots forum this debate/discussion gets sent to some sub-forum.

 

[Ian]

Just having some fun
Question: Do your articles/features get eyeballs beyond this site?

It depends, some of them get a fair amount of attention out on Google and social media, etc. There are also a fair amount of people who surprisingly have followed us over all these years and still read us with some regularity. A lot of the older stuff still gets read as well, I'm sure for historical reasons/interest.

It's tough...my biggest issue is and has always been the fact I'm not a big "me" person and I've never self-promoted this place that well. I mean, it's been 20+ years, but to me, it still feels like the same small site I started all those years ago. When you're in it, you don't think much of it and I'm certainly my own biggest critic when it comes to this place in general. But I sort of have to begin changing my thinking there. Given the way things are shifting online, it's definitely something I have to start trying to do a better job of in terms of getting us out there a little more.

But to answer your question, it's grown a fair amount over the years and we do have a strong readership. I'm going to try and start writing a bit more because a site this size with the way ads are these days can't survive on just a forum. That and I enjoy it, so hopefully, I'll be able to get back into a regular routine again.

 

[borg]

It depends, some of them get a fair amount of attention out on Google and social media, etc. There are also a fair amount of people who surprisingly have followed us over all these years and still read us with some regularity. A lot of the older stuff still gets read as well, I'm sure for historical reasons/interest.

It's tough...my biggest issue is and has always been the fact I'm not a big "me" person and I've never self-promoted this place that well. I mean, it's been 20+ years, but to me, it still feels like the same small site I started all those years ago. When you're in it, you don't think much of it and I'm certainly my own biggest critic when it comes to this place in general. But I sort of have to begin changing my thinking there. Given the way things are shifting online, it's definitely something I have to start trying to do a better job of in terms of getting us out there a little more.

But to answer your question, it's grown a fair amount over the years and we do have a strong readership. I'm going to try and start writing a bit more because a site this size with the way ads are these days can't survive on just a forum. That and I enjoy it, so hopefully, I'll be able to get back into a regular routine again.

Thanks for the info
Your "Five things to know" article today is the type of content I hope to read here every time. Great stuff

 

[Kontradiction]

Slight note - I wasn’t actually encouraging @venecol to kill himself to avoid dealing with the pain of having that thread moved. The post was tongue-in-cheek, and gave me a good reason to post a brilliant Louis C.K. bit. I actually like venecol and hope he lives a long and prosperous life.

 

[Calhoun44]

The funny thing is that BB himself doesn't look at anything done by a player the past few years never mind about 20 years. A player could have a great performance for 2 or 3 years, and even after winning a SB, BB will say "but what have you done for me lately?"

He's all business and doesn't give a damn about past success. So, in that light, why can't he be held to the same standards he holds others to? BB has been f**king up recently and nothing he did the last 20 years matters. Let's see what he does in 2021 with all this cash and a relatively good draft position. This is it, time to put up or shut up. No excuses. Everyone, and I mean everyone is going to be looking at what he does under a microscope. He either performs or should get same treatment as any other player. The Patriots Way says "team first over individual accomplishments, no preferential treatment."

Is it possible that our expectations for BB are too high? Greatness is what we expect from him in every facet of his job, he seems to have hit a patch of average/below average drafting and his QB succession plan didn't work out as well as most of us can see now with the benefit of hindsight. Greatness is a high standard and tough to maintain and for the compensation he is receiving I'm sure he expects more from himself (especially on the GM side). But we get BB as the coach too, and that guy is still kicking butt. Let's take these criticism's to their natural conclusion, BB gets fired because of them. I am not in way advocating for BB to get fired. But let's pretend that all the negative criticisms are true and Kraft felt the same way and fires BB. Is that the solution ? Who would replace him? Not just the greatest coach of all time during the salary cap era, but one of the best GM's in the salary cap era too. Who will follow in those footsteps? Will that person be free of mistakes? How many mistakes and growing pains will we have to "put up with"?
In regards to comparing him to a player: BB has 20 years of running this franchise at a level none has ever seen, I am not wanting to throw that away as if he has lost it completely because of a couple marginal drafts or because of a "less than perfect" transition from the GOAT QB. If a player is deemed unworthy of his asking price/current salary, he won't get offered a contract or gets cut, because the staff/BB decides their is value out on the market to cover for his loss. Can we honestly say that their is value out on the market right now that would replace BB? I'm not smart enough to know the answer to that question, but if I had to guess I would say "Not even close".
I hope this thread stays open because, I love reading all the criticisms of BB, Brady when he was here, Josh, or any other player or coach of my favorite football team. Because of my rose-colored glasses attitude, I typically learn a lot about the team through it, but usually it lasts a thread or two and then gets "talked out" and we move on. This seems different and it seems like some people can't get over the idea of rooting for The Pats without Brady or worse, with BB as the GM/coach.

 

[Ian]

Is it possible that our expectations for BB are too high? Greatness is what we expect from him in every facet of his job, he seems to have hit a patch of average/below average drafting and his QB succession plan didn't work out as well as most of us can see now with the benefit of hindsight. Greatness is a high standard and tough to maintain and for the compensation he is receiving I'm sure he expects more from himself (especially on the GM side). But we get BB as the coach too, and that guy is still kicking butt. Let's take these criticism's to their natural conclusion, BB gets fired because of them. I am not in way advocating for BB to get fired. But let's pretend that all the negative criticisms are true and Kraft felt the same way and fires BB. Is that the solution ? Who would replace him? Not just the greatest coach of all time during the salary cap era, but one of the best GM's in the salary cap era too. Who will follow in those footsteps? Will that person be free of mistakes? How many mistakes and growing pains will we have to "put up with"?
In regards to comparing him to a player: BB has 20 years of running this franchise at a level none has ever seen, I am not wanting to throw that away as if he has lost it completely because of a couple marginal drafts or because of a "less than perfect" transition from the GOAT QB. If a player is deemed unworthy of his asking price/current salary, he won't get offered a contract or gets cut, because the staff/BB decides their is value out on the market to cover for his loss. Can we honestly say that their is value out on the market right now that would replace BB? I'm not smart enough to know the answer to that question, but if I had to guess I would say "Not even close".
I hope this thread stays open because, I love reading all the criticisms of BB, Brady when he was here, Josh, or any other player or coach of my favorite football team. Because of my rose-colored glasses attitude, I typically learn a lot about the team through it, but usually it lasts a thread or two and then gets "talked out" and we move on. This seems different and it seems like some people can't get over the idea of rooting for The Pats without Brady or worse, with BB as the GM/coach.

It'll stay open. And I'm OK with discussing mistakes and criticisms as long as it's constructive and we can be objective and actually hash things out in a reasonable manner. Again, the goal will be to just avoid having 20 threads of similar topics that always turn out the same way and includes the same arguments. That's really what I'm trying to avoid because it will drown out a lot of the other threads that I'm sure will come up as we get closer to free agency as we talk about some of the new players.