Celtics 2023 - 2024 Discussion

[1960Pats]

I stand by the only vulnerability that will truly cost us a championship is Joe Mazzula and bad last second plays/shots.

This team has what it needs otherwise. They are pretty much completely healthy.

That would be the most frustrating part if they don't win.

As I've stated before, giving Mazzulla this team is like getting a brand new Rolls and giving the keys to the neighbor's kid who just got his license.

And wtf is going on with Tatum? He looks lost out there at times. Is his head getting too big after being filled with all the bs from the rest of the league? Something just isn't right with him.

 

[Real fan 02]

I stand by the only vulnerability that will truly cost us a championship is Joe Mazzula and bad last second plays/shots.

This team has what it needs otherwise. They are pretty much completely healthy.

I'm with you. But I kind of changed on the mazzula blame. He's a good coach, and he's one of the best coaches in the league. We are supposed to have defensive specialists in holiday. I believe he's been excellent but his age shows when he can't stay in front of guys. I want you to keep and eye on the springer kid. This guy is physical and locks up guys. That is what we need on the perimeter. Defense is what will get us to our next championship.

 

[aluminum seats]

Interesting race going on in the west. It would be best for the Celtics if someone knocked off Denver, so I think I'm rooting for Minnesota at this point to take the top seed

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Team had exact same front running/choking problems with Stevens coaching. It’s Tatum (who falls apart down the stretch) and Brown (who plays the same down the stretch but becomes more exposed.) And the two of them playing off each other.

I wish Mazulla could fix it by forcing the offense through White or Holiday, but these guys are pros. I put much more blame on the players than the coaches. Ultimately Tatum’s ego will decide if the Cs win it all because they’re not winning it all if he continues to believe he’s the only guy who can deliver in crunch time. He looks foolish.

 

[Kdo5]

Team had exact same front running/choking problems with Stevens coaching. It’s Tatum (who falls apart down the stretch) and Brown (who plays the same down the stretch but becomes more exposed.) And the two of them playing off each other.

I wish Mazulla could fix it by forcing the offense through White or Holiday, but these guys are pros. I put much more blame on the players than the coaches. Ultimately Tatum’s ego will decide if the Cs win it all because they’re not winning it all if he continues to believe he’s the only guy who can deliver in crunch time. He looks foolish.

Players need to be challenged. Tatum has had people praising him from year one, telling him he is the best. He deserves acclaim for his talent and winning (albeit not a championship) but his teammates and coaches never suggest he do anything other than take the final shot, never question his shot selection.

This is human nature. He is a young superstar who has been told “this is your team, your time, this thing rides on you.” I’m surprised his ego isn’t even bigger because he’s been fairly passive and level headed.

I am not absolving him of blame for bad plays and decisions but this isn’t only on him but there’s more to it. Literally the only guy who has ever said a peep was when Marcus Smart spoke to the media to say Tatum/Brown need to let other guys take shots. I know Smart didn’t have much ground to stand on himself but at least he spoke out.

Is Tatum going to sulk and storm off the court if he doesn’t get the last shot? Is that the fear? Because I’ve seen Marcus Smart take the shot before and it didn’t happen. Mazzula needs to have some genitals and run a play for someone else.

If he is constantly and emphatically enabled, he’ll keep doing it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Players need to be challenged. Tatum has had people praising him from year one, telling him he is the best. He deserves acclaim for his talent and winning (albeit not a championship) but his teammates and coaches never suggest he do anything other than take the final shot, never question his shot selection.

This is human nature. He is a young superstar who has been told “this is your team, your time, this thing rides on you.” I’m surprised his ego isn’t even bigger because he’s been fairly passive and level headed.

I am not absolving him of blame for bad plays and decisions but this isn’t only on him but there’s more to it. Literally the only guy who has ever said a peep was when Marcus Smart spoke to the media to say Tatum/Brown need to let other guys take shots. I know Smart didn’t have much ground to stand on himself but at least he spoke out.

If Tatum cared only about winning, he wouldn’t start playing his panic point guard role in the final minutes. He would pass the ball. The options are all there and Mazulla shouldn’t need to draw up a bunch of scripted plays.

Everyone on the team knows their strengths and how to attack the opponent’s defense. The problem is that Tatum will gladly take a 25% ****ty shot himself than running the offense organically and getting a 50% (either him or someone else.). Why? Because he buys into this BS about the team’s “best player” taking the big time shots somehow gives you a better chance and he probably believes he’s doing the right thing but he isn’t. They’re low percentage shots. Give the ball to Derrick ****ing White and let him create space for an open, high percentage look (and hopefully White gets the look himself since he’s absolutely lights out in pressure situations.)

It’s frustrating because you’re right: Tatum isn’t a selfish player normally, and because the Celtics have so many great options now that all this is so unnecessary.

 

[Kdo5]

If Tatum cared only about winning, he wouldn’t start playing his panic point guard role in the final minutes. He would pass the ball. The options are all there and Mazulla shouldn’t need to draw up a bunch of scripted plays.

Everyone on the team knows their strengths and how to attack the opponent’s defense. The problem is that Tatum will gladly take a 25% ****ty shot himself than running the offense organically and getting a 50% (either him or someone else.). Why? Because he buys into this BS about the team’s “best player” taking the big time shots somehow gives you a better chance and he probably believes he’s doing the right thing but he isn’t. They’re low percentage shots. Give the ball to Derrick ****ing White and let him create space for an open, high percentage look (and hopefully White gets the look himself since he’s absolutely lights out in pressure situations.)

It’s frustrating because you’re right: Tatum isn’t a selfish player normally, and because the Celtics have so many great options now that all this is so unnecessary.

Will never happen. Only chance something like that happens is if the defense pressures Tatum so much that they can’t get the inbound to him. Like the Miami game last season the ball found its way to Smart because he was the only guy open.

Just gotta hope Tatum gets lucky and finally hits one at the right time. He shoots so many that one has to fall eventually. Cross our fingers.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Here’s the true shooting percentage for every Celtics player this year in clutch situations (close game with 5 mins or less.). Next to that is usage. And there you have the problem. Going back three years, Tatum is shooting 37% in clutch while still having a spiked amount of shots and ball. And again, Brown is a problem to a lesser extent but it’s the same issue. These guys force shots in crunch time and lose games. There’s not much more to analyze here. It isn’t the other guys.

Reminder: Derrick White is the Celtics best player. Just look at this absurd stat line. He’s an assassin. He also has something like 80 assists and almost no turnovers in these situations. Not recognizing White’s brilliance could cost them #18.

 

[jimnance]

Even Kendrick Perkins said yesterday
" maybe the crunch time offense needs to run through White and Holiday not Tatum and Brown".
Duh. Ya think?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Even Kendrick Perkins said yesterday
" maybe the crunch time offense needs to run through White and Holiday not Tatum and Brown".
Duh. Ya think?

It ran through White at the end of the Pelicans game. Fingers crossed.

 

[aluminum seats]

It ran through White at the end of the Pelicans game. Fingers crossed.

Yeah but that was a double digit win. We know they can do those

 

[RobertWeathers]

The team is starting to show vulnerability, IMO springer is the best on ball defender we have. 2 losses at Atlanta with basically thier whole starting 5 out...

No need to panic

 

[Real fan 02]

No need to panic

No panic, it's I've noticed a trend all season long. However I muzzlulla has done a masterful job this season.. he needs to get some respect on his name..

I just want our perimeter guys like white and holiday to slow guys.. keep your eye on springer..

 

[RobertWeathers]

No panic, it's I've noticed a trend all season long. However I muzzlulla has done a masterful job this season.. he needs to get some respect on his name..

I just want our perimeter guys like white and holiday to slow guys.. keep your eye on springer..

The do slow guys

 

[Real fan 02]

The do slow guys

Murray went off for 44, the 08 celtics took pride and locked guys up. I want springer in the rotation he LOCKS guys up.

 

[aluminum seats]

Murray went off for 44, the 08 celtics took pride and locked guys up. I want springer in the rotation he LOCKS guys up.

Would be really surprised if they drastically altered the rotation in April

 

[Real fan 02]

Would be really surprised if they drastically altered the rotation in April

Springer was like an attack dog on the perimeter.

 

[Real fan 02]

Would be really surprised if they drastically altered the rotation in April

I believe they shorten the rotation however springer should be part of the rotation going forward I absolutely love his tenacity on defense.. our top guys exhaust so much energy on offense we need a guy like springer to slow guys.

 

[jimnance]

Here’s the true shooting percentage for every Celtics player this year in clutch situations (close game with 5 mins or less.). Next to that is usage. And there you have the problem. Going back three years, Tatum is shooting 37% in clutch while still having a spiked amount of shots and ball. And again, Brown is a problem to a lesser extent but it’s the same issue. These guys force shots in crunch time and lose games. There’s not much more to analyze here. It isn’t the other guys.

Reminder: Derrick White is the Celtics best player. Just look at this absurd stat line. He’s an assassin. He also has something like 80 assists and almost no turnovers in these situations. Not recognizing White’s brilliance could cost them #18.

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I can't go quite that far. Despite his crunchtime struggles, Tatum is still the best Celtics player.
But White is handsdown tge 2nd best player on the team. Which is saying a lot.
Yes,White is better than Jaylen Brown.
Thats a fact. And Brown is having his his best season. He turned around a poor start to really become a true All Star. But he's not as good as Derrick White.
Porzingis is a helluva player and a huge difference maker. But White is better.
I love Jrue. Great player. White is greater.
How can White  still be underrated by so many people?
In crunchtime, I want White, not Tatum not Brown not anyone else running tge offense in crunchtime. If the C's do that they will never lose a close game and they're winning the #18.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I can't go quite that far. Despite his crunchtime struggles, Tatum is still the best Celtics player.
But White is handsdown tge 2nd best player on the team. Which is saying a lot.
Yes,White is better than Jaylen Brown.
Thats a fact. And Brown is having his his best season. He turned around a poor start to really become a true All Star. But he's not as good as Derrick White.
Porzingis is a helluva player and a huge difference maker. But White is better.
I love Jrue. Great player. White is greater.
How can White  still be underrated by so many people?
In crunchtime, I want White, not Tatum not Brown not anyone else running tge offense in crunchtime. If the C's do that they will never lose a close game and they're winning the #18.

White played 36 minutes tonight, most on the team. I’d like to think the Celtics management is picking up on all this. Given their use if analytics, my guess is that they get it. Derrick White is now tied for 6th (with Tatum) for highest RAPTOR score in the NBA, which is the most comprehensive rating system there is and accounts for supoorting cast too.

6th in the NBA. And probably the most clutch and unselfish of all those top guys besides Jokic.

If the dumb media doesn’t get it and insists on referring to him as a plucky little Marcus Smart clone, so be it. The Celtics just need to understand what they have here.