DE and LB - No Injuries Allowed

[mgteich]

DE - Ninkovich, Jones
LB - Mayo, Hightower, Collins
DE pass-rusher - Buchanan
==================
We're fine if
1) Ninkovich and Jones continue to play 90% of the defensive reps.
2) Collins plays at end of year level.
3) Buchanan improves.

Our backups are Bequette, Beuaharnais and White. Gone are Carter, Spikes, and Fletcher.
=====

DT

As an aside, we have lots of starters and backups at DT.
DT - Wilfork, Kelly
backup DT - Jones, Siliga, Armstead
PS or cut or part-year in case of someone is on the PUP list - Vellano, Forston

 

[Ring 6]

DE - Ninkovich, Jones
LB - Mayo, Hightower, Collins
DE pass-rusher - Buchanan
==================
We're fine if
1) Ninkovich and Jones continue to play 90% of the defensive reps.
2) Collins plays at end of year level.
3) Buchanan improves.

Our backups are Bequette, Beuaharnais and White. Gone are Carter, Spikes, and Fletcher.
=====

DT

As an aside, we have lots of starters and backups at DT.
DT - Wilfork, Kelly
backup DT - Jones, Siliga, Armstead
PS or cut or part-year in case of someone is on the PUP list - Vellano, Forston

Of course we will be adding players to the roster before the games start.

 

[TriplecHamp]

This is why I have DE/DT as our #1 need.

Our pressure seems to stem from Ninkovich and Jones exclusively so if one of them were to go down we'd be in some srs trouble.

I don't know how much to expect from Buchanon but Collins seems to be able to bring some heat. I'd love to get another pass rusher to throw into the rotation immediately.

 

[Ring 6]

This is why I have DE/DT as our #1 need.

I dont think we are drafting a DT.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I dont think we are drafting a DT.

Maybe not with the 1st pick (#29) unless they somebody like Donald falls to us. More value in the 2nd round anyway.

 

[Claremonster]

Drafting a cover linebacker and a pass rushing DE are musts for this year. Also a TE and C and G. WR and SS and RB are after that.

 

[JMC00]

Tuitt. Kill two birds with one stone.

 

[Coach42]

DE - Ninkovich, Jones
LB - Mayo, Hightower, Collins
DE pass-rusher - Buchanan
==================
We're fine if
1) Ninkovich and Jones continue to play 90% of the defensive reps.
2) Collins plays at end of year level.
3) Buchanan improves.

Our backups are Bequette, Beuaharnais and White. Gone are Carter, Spikes, and Fletcher.
=====

DT

As an aside, we have lots of starters and backups at DT.
DT - Wilfork, Kelly
backup DT - Jones, Siliga, Armstead
PS or cut or part-year in case of someone is on the PUP list - Vellano, Forston

Nink and Jones playing 90% of the snaps is, IMO, one of the key reasons we lost to Denver. Those two were gassed late in the season. Jones production took an especially nasty drop off. To that point I would probably be in the minority in saying we don't absolutely need another pass rusher so much as 1-2 players that can take reps from those two on running downs. Certainly another pass rusher would help but I think a reduction of snaps on clear running downs for Nink and Jones would show up in the pass rush.

 

[patfanken]

A couple of points

1. I find it interesting that everyone looks at the draft and makes suggestions on possible 3rd day picks who are described as tackling machines, with great instincts and character. My question is, doesn't that perfectly describe someone we already have on the roster, SBeuaharnais?

I'm not saying we shouldn't be adding LB's or look to draft one. But it could be that one of the reasons the Pats let Fletcher go is because they think they already have his replacement already on board. The fact is that where we need the most help at LB is on the outside. That's why Jones or Tripp would be great pick ups in the 3rd or 4th rounds

2. 4-3 DE is the big need - No one excites me that much to make a pick at 29 at that position. Ford will be the big name there, but I don't think a short armed, one move guy, whose only asset is an explosive first step is likely to be an impact player worthy of a pick a 29. I'd rather look in later rounds for great physical specimens who played in small schools (Fede is a name that gets a lot of mention, but there are others) The thing is that you can't teach length and explosion.

As for what's left in FA, I'm content to wait and see what's there in June and July. I'm sure BB will add a vet or two by then. Also by then we'll have at least a hint about where Buchanon and Bequette are in the great scheme of things

3. Tuitt is starting to take shape as a real option at DT/DE at 29, now that it looks like Donald and Hageman will be long gone by the time we pick. He's right in the mode of a Ty Warren type 3-4 DE, who might have a little more quickness like he showed in 2012 with some less weight. Remember BB is a 3-4 guy by nature. Roster talent has dictated our recent move to a 4-3. Tuitt's ideal position is a 3-4 DE. In a 4-3 he could be a DE on run downs and move down to DT in passing situations That kind of position flexibility adds to his potential value, especially for a defense that wants to run multiple fronts

4. DT has just so many question marks at this time. Questions that can't be answered until Armstead, Wilfolk and Kelly get back on the field. If they can be even close to the effectiveness we all hope they have, we could be in a lot better shape at DT than it looked like when the season ended.\

5. Chris Jones has a severe case of Ninko disease. Yes he's THAT under rated. We would all be THRILLED (me included) if we drafted a DT who could push the pocket and get 5 or 6 sacks. And even though that's exactly what Chris Jones did all last season, he routinely seems to be dismissed as an end of the roster backup hopeful.

I also don't understand the reason why we all expect Collins, Ryan, Buchanon, Harmon, Dobson, Thompkins, and Boyce all to make significant 2nd year jumps; yet for some reason, we all think Chris Jones has hit his ceiling? Sure he doesn't fit the image we all have of our ideal DT, but the kid did have 54 tackles and 6 sacks. What other rookie DT did better than that! Just sayin'

4

 

[Brady6]

DE - Ninkovich, Jones
LB - Mayo, Hightower, Collins
DE pass-rusher - Buchanan
==================
We're fine if
1) Ninkovich and Jones continue to play 90% of the defensive reps.
2) Collins plays at end of year level.
3) Buchanan improves.

Our backups are Bequette, Beuaharnais and White. Gone are Carter, Spikes, and Fletcher.
=====

DT

As an aside, we have lots of starters and backups at DT.
DT - Wilfork, Kelly
backup DT - Jones, Siliga, Armstead
PS or cut or part-year in case of someone is on the PUP list - Vellano, Forston

It's March 30th...

 

[Claremonster]

A couple of points

1. I find it interesting that everyone looks at the draft and makes suggestions on possible 3rd day picks who are described as tackling machines, with great instincts and character. My question is, doesn't that perfectly describe someone we already have on the roster, SBeuaharnais?

I'm not saying we shouldn't be adding LB's or look to draft one. But it could be that one of the reasons the Pats let Fletcher go is because they think they already have his replacement already on board. The fact is that where we need the most help at LB is on the outside. That's why Jones or Tripp would be great pick ups in the 3rd or 4th rounds

2. 4-3 DE is the big need - No one excites me that much to make a pick at 29 at that position. Ford will be the big name there, but I don't think a short armed, one move guy, whose only asset is an explosive first step is likely to be an impact player worthy of a pick a 29. I'd rather look in later rounds for great physical specimens who played in small schools (Fede is a name that gets a lot of mention, but there are others) The thing is that you can't teach length and explosion.

As for what's left in FA, I'm content to wait and see what's there in June and July. I'm sure BB will add a vet or two by then. Also by then we'll have at least a hint about where Buchanon and Bequette are in the great scheme of things

3. Tuitt is starting to take shape as a real option at DT/DE at 29, now that it looks like Donald and Hageman will be long gone by the time we pick. He's right in the mode of a Ty Warren type 3-4 DE, who might have a little more quickness like he showed in 2012 with some less weight. Remember BB is a 3-4 guy by nature. Roster talent has dictated our recent move to a 4-3. Tuitt's ideal position is a 3-4 DE. In a 4-3 he could be a DE on run downs and move down to DT in passing situations That kind of position flexibility adds to his potential value, especially for a defense that wants to run multiple fronts

4. DT has just so many question marks at this time. Questions that can't be answered until Armstead, Wilfolk and Kelly get back on the field. If they can be even close to the effectiveness we all hope they have, we could be in a lot better shape at DT than it looked like when the season ended.\

5. Chris Jones has a severe case of Ninko disease. Yes he's THAT under rated. We would all be THRILLED (me included) if we drafted a DT who could push the pocket and get 5 or 6 sacks. And even though that's exactly what Chris Jones did all last season, he routinely seems to be dismissed as an end of the roster backup hopeful.

I also don't understand the reason why we all expect Collins, Ryan, Buchanon, Harmon, Dobson, Thompkins, and Boyce all to make significant 2nd year jumps; yet for some reason, we all think Chris Jones has hit his ceiling? Sure he doesn't fit the image we all have of our ideal DT, but the kid did have 54 tackles and 6 sacks. What other rookie DT did better than that! Just sayin'

4

Linebacker (cover especially) is short on depth right now. It will be addressed in the draft. Count on it. Pats need more pass rushers.

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe not with the 1st pick (#29) unless they somebody like Donald falls to us. More value in the 2nd round anyway.

I don't think we are drafting one at all.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with all your comments, especially with regard to Chris Jones.

I wanted to underline how thin we were with regard to backups to the starters at DE and LB.

DE (5)
As Andy posted, we will likely add more free agents. I certainly expect the 2014 equivalent of Carter, giving us what we had last year at DE. IMHO, this is not sufficient. We will still be counting on Ninkovich and Jones for 90% of the reps, and Ninkovich won't be available as LB if needed (as he was in 2012). Our backups would be Buchanan, Bequette and our Carter-like free agent.

LB (6)
We usually carry six, including two special teamers, of which one needs to be able to play significant reps as needed. Collins was the #4 last year, and Fletcher was the #5/STer. White was and is our #6 LB who we want to see only on Special Teams.

With Collins moving up to a starting role, we are short TWO linebackers. I'm OK if Belichick thinks that Beauharnais is our #5 (maybe as good as a 2014 late round draftee; of not we'll draft a replacement developmental player).

The issue is that we are short the first replacement off the bench. I suspect that we will be signing at least one free agent to compete for the backup linebacker roles, since we arguably have three open positions.

DT (4) with plenty of backups who have played
Wilfork, Kelly, Jones, Siliga, Armstead, Vellano, Forston

A couple of points

1. I find it interesting that everyone looks at the draft and makes suggestions on possible 3rd day picks who are described as tackling machines, with great instincts and character. My question is, doesn't that perfectly describe someone we already have on the roster, SBeuaharnais?

I'm not saying we shouldn't be adding LB's or look to draft one. But it could be that one of the reasons the Pats let Fletcher go is because they think they already have his replacement already on board. The fact is that where we need the most help at LB is on the outside. That's why Jones or Tripp would be great pick ups in the 3rd or 4th rounds

2. 4-3 DE is the big need - No one excites me that much to make a pick at 29 at that position. Ford will be the big name there, but I don't think a short armed, one move guy, whose only asset is an explosive first step is likely to be an impact player worthy of a pick a 29. I'd rather look in later rounds for great physical specimens who played in small schools (Fede is a name that gets a lot of mention, but there are others) The thing is that you can't teach length and explosion.

As for what's left in FA, I'm content to wait and see what's there in June and July. I'm sure BB will add a vet or two by then. Also by then we'll have at least a hint about where Buchanon and Bequette are in the great scheme of things

3. Tuitt is starting to take shape as a real option at DT/DE at 29, now that it looks like Donald and Hageman will be long gone by the time we pick. He's right in the mode of a Ty Warren type 3-4 DE, who might have a little more quickness like he showed in 2012 with some less weight. Remember BB is a 3-4 guy by nature. Roster talent has dictated our recent move to a 4-3. Tuitt's ideal position is a 3-4 DE. In a 4-3 he could be a DE on run downs and move down to DT in passing situations That kind of position flexibility adds to his potential value, especially for a defense that wants to run multiple fronts

4. DT has just so many question marks at this time. Questions that can't be answered until Armstead, Wilfolk and Kelly get back on the field. If they can be even close to the effectiveness we all hope they have, we could be in a lot better shape at DT than it looked like when the season ended.\

5. Chris Jones has a severe case of Ninko disease. Yes he's THAT under rated. We would all be THRILLED (me included) if we drafted a DT who could push the pocket and get 5 or 6 sacks. And even though that's exactly what Chris Jones did all last season, he routinely seems to be dismissed as an end of the roster backup hopeful.

I also don't understand the reason why we all expect Collins, Ryan, Buchanon, Harmon, Dobson, Thompkins, and Boyce all to make significant 2nd year jumps; yet for some reason, we all think Chris Jones has hit his ceiling? Sure he doesn't fit the image we all have of our ideal DT, but the kid did have 54 tackles and 6 sacks. What other rookie DT did better than that! Just sayin'

4

 

[Deus Irae]

By pretty much all accounts, this is an historically deep draft, and the Patriots have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds. That's great, but I see 5 "top" issues with only 3 top (rounds 1-3 seem to be "top" for this draft) picks:

DE/DT
S
IOL
LB
TE


Two positions, at least, are likely to end up taken in the more usual sort of "Well, if we're lucky" sort of draft spots. It's a tough situation, in a way because you want to really take advantage of a year where the draft is stocked. I don't want BB to trade down and miss the opportunities that should still be there at 29, but I'd love the extra shots in this draft. This is the sort of year where I'd be very comfortable with the team trading away future picks for 2014 picks. Unfortunately, this runs counter to both BB's usual approach and the likely thought process of the other teams in the league, as they too will probably prefer having picks in 2014 than 2015. For example (feel free to insert your own 'likely' positional options rather than mine):

Tuitt (1st)
Niklas (2nd)
Jones (3rd)
available top 3 center (4th)

leaves them short, even if they could accomplish it, because the safeties aren't going to be 4 rounds deep. Taking Pryor, or Clinton-Dix, if one were to fall, would lead to the same problem, except that it would be with the DT/DE instead of the safety.

 

[Brady6]

I don't think we are drafting one at all.

I expect us to take at least one most likely two. It is one of the deepest positions in this draft class so from a value perspective it would make a lot of sense.

I think Easley is a player that they would have a hard time passing on if he is there at #62.

 

[ausbacker]

I dont think we are drafting a DT.

We should be drafting or acquiring swing End/Tackle(s) if possible. Quality depth is a problem at both positions.

 

[RayClay]

I dont think we are drafting a DT.

Hageman would be a DT in our system and wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Brady6]

DE - Ninkovich, Jones
LB - Mayo, Hightower, Collins
DE pass-rusher - Buchanan
==================
We're fine if
1) Ninkovich and Jones continue to play 90% of the defensive reps.
2) Collins plays at end of year level.
3) Buchanan improves.

Our backups are Bequette, Beuaharnais and White. Gone are Carter, Spikes, and Fletcher.
=====

DT

As an aside, we have lots of starters and backups at DT.
DT - Wilfork, Kelly
backup DT - Jones, Siliga, Armstead
PS or cut or part-year in case of someone is on the PUP list - Vellano, Forston

You make many assumptions with your post on 3/30/2014.

1. The Patriots did not sign a number of UFAs until April or later last year, Tommy Kelly being one of them.
2. The Patriots will draft DL and LB in the draft they have spent the offseason signing DB and WR, so they have the resources to rebuild the OL, DL, and LB.
3. Armond Armstead actually projects as a LDE in a base defense, and a DT in a sub package.
4. Adrian Wilson will likely be competing as a coverage LB.
5. You seem very quick to write off a player like Steve Beauharnais, and label players like Joe Vellano practice squad players. Vellano had 59 tackles, 3 sacks, and 2 stuffs last season as a rookie, which is better production than Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick had combined in 2012.

Overall, you seem to expect player to be successful as rookies or you label them practice squad players, dismiss them from the picture, and overall devalue them. You put too much emphasis on the names of a player, and never see the potential for growth of the players over time in the NFL. Belichick develops talent behind the scenes every year, heck that is what he did with Brady in 2000; you probably would have been opening threads that said “Bledsoe and No room for injuries at QB”.

Before you open a thread like this prior to the draft, UDFA signings, and even a single OTA you should consider that players like Beauharnais, Bequette, Wilson, and others were retained by Bill Belichick for a reason all of last season on his 53-man roster, of a team that went to the AFCCG. Clearly, he sees things that you do not in them, and respectfully I will give Belichick the benefit here.

 

[patchick]

For draft targets, everyone keeps using the phrase "pass-rushing DE." Sometimes they even specify a smaller, speedy edge guy. Meanwhile, it strikes me that Rob Ninkovich is a key every-down player with absolutely no backup on the roster. (Unless you want to count Jake Bequette? Nah, I thought not.)

Why is nobody talking about looking for a versatile LDE type? Why the focus on pass-rush specialists?

What if...

- Michael Buchanan is a rotational DE and backup to Chandler Jones.
- For specific situations where you want a lighter, speedier, explosive edge guy, you turn to Jamie Collins, who is essentially what everybody is out hunting for in a weak DE draft class.
- You draft an LB like Jordan Tripp or Christian Jones, and a well-rounded DE like Trent Murphy who can spell Ninkovich.

?

 

[breakin]

As people noted already Nink and Chandler playin 90% of the snaps isnt really ideal. Obviously it is nice to have reliable players that are always on the field, but when you look at a team like the seahawks who are good at creating pressure with the front 4, their DL often come in at below 60% of the snaps each game. You need to have depth to allow rotation so that you can get fresh people on the field.