Deandre Hopkins Visiting Patriots Next Week

[slash83]

Hop needs to accept his market for being what it is, only two teams have brought you in for a visit up to this point. Teams at this point aren’t loaded with cap, make your decision already.

 

[PatsFan2]

Thread derailment in progress by the BMI >35 squad. Nothing gets past them….especially carbohydrates.

View attachment 51457

But I kid…

I was eating.

 

[RIpats88]

That was fun while it lasted.

To me it sounds like he didn't like what Patriots and Tennessee offered. So now he's holding out hope some guy will get injured in training camp or someone will be unhappy with their roster. It's a last ditch effort.

Not sure it's a smart move. There's still no teams that have the cap space to sign him. And as we get Into training camp his value should go down as he isn't involved in the teams training programs.

He needs to accept what his value is at this point. If he doesn't like it he can take a 1 year prove it deal.

 

[BTTA]

...and we Pats fans would do well to accept what NFL team evaluators are seeing as his value. He may, or may not, be better than our younger guys at this point, in terms of the impact he has over the course of a season.

I don't think we have any idea how good Parker and Thornton can be with Jones and Obrien. We know Bourne can be a lot better than we saw last year. We can reasonably expect much better play at TE. I think those upsides are more exciting than the possibility of signing an aging, injury prone star WR. Would love to have him, but this isn't fantasy.

 

[Sicilian]

...and we Pats fans would do well to accept what NFL team evaluators are seeing as his value. He may, or may not, be better than our younger guys at this point, in terms of the impact he has over the course of a season.

I don't think we have any idea how good Parker and Thornton can be with Jones and Obrien. We know Bourne can be a lot better than we saw last year. We can reasonably expect much better play at TE. I think those upsides are more exciting than the possibility of signing an aging, injury prone star WR. Would love to have him, but this isn't fantasy.

This has pretty much been my thought on it the whole time as well. I think he'd be a good addition to the team, and overall they'd be better with him than without him. But I've never seen it as a "Do WHATEVER it takes!" kind of situation. I think a lot of people are thinking of him as prime Hopkins, and if he was anything close the league would probably be valuing him differently than it seems they are.

And I say probably, because sometimes there's a Randy Moss situation where it turns out the league was hilariously wrong about how good a great WR still is. But then again, sometimes you get a Chad OchoCinco who comes cheap for a reason. My guess is Hopkins is somewhere in between those extremes, but if it was the no brainer some are making it out to be, he'd be getting more attention than he has, especially given the way the league currently values the position.

 

[crawhammer]

Wozzy I agree with alot of your takes about the importance of team over any one player even the GOAT QB

You agree the Patriots could have replicated their dynasty success with any top 15 QB in the NFL? That's nearly half of all starting quarterbacks in the league... plug and play any of those top 15 "into the system" and come out on the other side with 6 Super Bowl championships and the greatest dynasty in NFL history. That's what you agree with??

 

[Ring 6]

You agree the Patriots could have replicated their dynasty success with any top 15 QB in the NFL? That's nearly half of all starting quarterbacks in the league... plug and play any of those top 15 "into the system" and come out on the other side with 6 Super Bowl championships and the greatest dynasty in NFL history. That's what you agree with??

No one said that. Brady is the GOAT so removing him would mean they were less successful, but removing Hightower, McCourty, Gronk, Vrabel, Bruschi, light, McGinest, Edelman, just to name a few, and of course Belichick would have also meant they were less successful.

 

[crawhammer]

Hopkins would be an upgrade to Devante Parker. Not only is he more mobile, can run more routes but Parker is a massive injury risk. Hopkins had one knee injury in 2021 but otherwise has been an iron man. I want them to trade out Parker for Hopkins.

I want them to sign Hopkins and keep Parker... Hopkins, JuJu, and Parker... that's your best WR 1,2,3.

Nobody knows what Mac will do this season in a much better situation, not you, not me… but you’re pretending to know.

It's called a prognostication. You apparently can't comprehend the word.

Change those QB’s names to Patriots/Chiefs and it sounds very similar.

Patriots and Chiefs aren't quarterbacks. Brady and Mahomes are and the debate here is 1) the importance of the QB position in general and 2) the importance of the very best QBs to their teams. Winning 67% of Super Bowls over the course of nearly a full decade is pretty telling.

The Pats also have the toughest schedule in the NFL in the division with the toughest defenses. They need to stay healthy, but if they do and the youth movement develop into contributors they should be a top ten offense.

That's called backtracking already. You went from top 6 to top 10 with a bunch of ifs and variables. I can tell you right now this offense will not be top 6 in points or yards and top 10 is doubtful in either as well. I'll be happy with a top 11-15 offense and a top 5 defense... that may be doable and really is necessary if they're going to be competitive this season.

Individually and as a duo

Over the last two seasons, here are where Henry and Gesicki rank among TEs (minimum 40 receptions which qualified 41 players)...

Henry
19th Rec
16th Yards
8th Y/R
6th TDs
12th 1st Downs
24th Catch%

Gesicki
15th Rec
15th Yards
16th Y/R
14th TDs
11th 1st Downs
35th Catch%

By the numbers, neither are individually among the best TEs in the NFL. As a duo they're in decent shape. I'm actually happy with the combination but you're greatly exaggerating their individual contributions.

Brady handpicked the best possible situation that only needed a QB

Brady's an extraordinary player whose impact on two franchises is unparalleled. No QB in the history of the NFL has ever won a Super Bowl in their first season as a starter for two different teams. He won 7 Super Bowls in 21 seasons with 6 game-winning drives and 5 MVPs. He was the only Patriots player to appear every Super Bowl win... from one end to the other the entire roster changed except for 1 player. You continue to deny the obvious.

 

[crawhammer]

No one said that. Brady is the GOAT so removing him would mean they were less successful, but removing Hightower, McCourty, Gronk, Vrabel, Bruschi, light, McGinest, Edelman, just to name a few, and of course Belichick would have also meant they were less successful.

@pazrul72 can speak for himself but I'm pretty sure that's @Wozzy's position. Otherwise, you're removing at least 8 impactful players and the head coach to equal the loss of Brady. I can agree with that.

 

[Ring 6]

@pazrul72 can speak for himself but I'm pretty sure that's @Wozzy's position. Otherwise, you're removing at least 8 impactful players and the head coach to equal the loss of Brady. I can agree with that.

I did say all I said any of. And I didn’t say anything about the level of impact of any of them.
I think you are so twisted into the ground on this argument that you actually think someone argued QBs are meaningless

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady's an extraordinary player whose impact on two franchises is unparalleled. No QB in the history of the NFL has ever won a Super Bowl in their first season as a starter for two different teams. He won 7 Super Bowls in 21 seasons with 6 game-winning drives and 5 MVPs. He was the only Patriots player to appear every Super Bowl win... from one end to the other the entire roster changed except for 1 player. You continue to deny the obvious.

And as I pointed out to you repeatedly in my PMs, you are delusional.

Brady was statistically AVERAGE in half the super bowls he played in.

 

[crawhammer]

And as I pointed out to you repeatedly in my PM, you are delusional.

Delusional? So you think I'm clinically psychotic?

I know, we all know, you think the Patriots should be docked 3 Lombardi's - 2001, 2003 & 2004 - because of Spygate. You can think/wish that all you want but it's not happening, those Super Bowl championships and the rings associated with them still very much count.

 

[Uptown]

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Delusional? So you think I'm clinically psychotic?

Yes.

I know, we all know, you think the Patriots should be docked 3 Lombardi's - 2001, 2003 & 2004 - because of Spygate. You can think/wish that all you want but it's not happening, those Super Bowl championships and the rings associated with them still very much count.

Depends whom you ask.

In any event, you (who loves stats) still haven't responded to my argument that Brady played average statistically in SBs 36, 39, 42, 46, and 53. What this suggests is that you live in fantasyland.

 

[crawhammer]

I did say all I said any of. And I didn’t say anything about the level of impact of any of them.
I think you are so twisted into the ground on this argument that you actually think someone argued QBs are meaningless

There's an argument out there, granted promoted by very few, that the Patriots could have won multiple Super Bowls with any top 15 QB plugged into their system. It's a ridiculous argument with absolutely no backing whatsoever. That's what I'm disputing. And of course I realize no one is arguing QBs are meaningless but some are definitely arguing they're much less valuable than they really are. Most important position in the game of football and probably in all of professional team sports.

 

[crawhammer]

In any event, you still haven't responded to my argument that Brady played average statistically in SBs 36, 39, 42, 46, and 53. What this suggests is that you live in fantasyland.

Brady in those 5 Super Bowls...

3-2 (3 rings)
3 Game-Winning Drives
1 SB MVP
6 TDs & 2 INTs

Average? Those SB numbers alone would put any quarterback in the NFL Hall of Fame.

 

[crawhammer]

"Failed to land" implies Buffalo tried. My understanding is there's been no contact between Buffalo and Hopkins. He's formally met with only the Titans and Patriots, right?

 

[Sicilian]

"Failed to land" implies Buffalo tried. My understanding is there's been no contact between Buffalo and Hopkins. He's formally met with only the Titans and Patriots, right?

It's definitely a weird choice of words in the tweet, given technically every team has "failed to land" Hopkins so far.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady in those 5 Super Bowls...

3-2 (3 rings)
3 Game-Winning Drives
1 SB MVP
6 TDs & 2 INTs

Average? Those SB numbers alone would put any quarterback in the NFL Hall of Fame.

You continue to spin everything.

SB 36: 15 for 29, 145 yards, 1 TD

SB 39: 23 for 33, 236 yards, 2 TDs, 1 fumble

SB 42 (my favorite): 29 for 48, 266 yards, 1 TD

SB 46: 27 for 41, 276 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT (badly underthrown ball to Gronk)

SB 53: 21 for 35, 262 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT

Average across these 5 super bowls: 23 for 37, 237 yards, 1.2 TDs, 0.4 INTs/1 fumble. Sorry, these 5 super bowls are not HOF-worthy numbers. His defense bailed him out in at least 3 of these Super Bowls and arguably in SB 49 with Butler saving the day (after Brady's 2 INTs).

As your fellow Pats fans repeatedly state, Bradys super bowls were a team effort to get across the finish line. You attribute everything to one man. THAT is delusional.

 

[captain stone]

There's an argument out there, granted promoted by very few, that the Patriots could have won multiple Super Bowls with any top 15 QB plugged into their system. It's a ridiculous argument with absolutely no backing whatsoever. That's what I'm disputing. And of course I realize no one is arguing QBs are meaningless but some are definitely arguing they're much less valuable than they really are. Most important position in the game of football and probably in all of professional team sports.

It is Now; and that's Exactly how the league, the QBs themselves & the QBs' influencers want it, because Chicks dig the long ball.

Next-important is NHL Goal-keeper... There was a time when NBA Center & Point Guard would've qualified, but not Now.