Deandre Hopkins Visiting Patriots Next Week

[Lansdowne]

Craig Carton’s source:

 

[crawhammer]

Ugh. I know this is going to be a waste of my time because you have your head so far up Brady’s rectum you lick his sack internally but they keep pulling me back in and I am compelled to reply. No I don’t think any other QB gets 6 super bowls. Brady is the GOAT for a reason and that is what I call pyscho Tom.

I legit question if Brady has split personality disorder because the regular guy says and does all the right things and is merely an above average starting QB. He’s good but half the other QBs in the league can duplicate his production no problem. Then when the game is close or he needs to, to quote one of the talking heads I forget which one, “call on his greatness” you can see his whole demeanor changes, he gets that look in his eyes and turns into the coldest baddest MF on the planet. The real Tom Brady is the guy who poses with a goat, goes down a water slide screaming like a girl, and says I love you babe to anyone and everyone. That guy is merely good. That guy scares NO ONE. You or I could probably take that guy in a fight.

Pyscho Tom on the other hand, is the guy who refuses to lose a beer chugging contest, he’s the one that goes whatever insane statistics he had against the legion of boom in the 4th quarter, he’s the one that if you meet in a dark alley you aren’t coming out of it. He is probably the scariest man on the planet. If Tom played like THAT guy all the time he’d have a 7000 yard season with 70 TDs And 20 rings.

Now all of that said, my comment was I agree with alot of what woozy says not all so putting words in my mouth you can piss right the F off. I do think Brady has 6 rings because of the TEAMS BB put around him. Give Brady anyone else as a GM coach and I think he only has 1-3 rings, if anyone else gave him a chance to develop remember 6th round pick no 9ne wanted him, depending on how things fell. He would have needed a year where everything went right and he got good matchups in the playoffs. I feel similarly about BB, give him any top 15 QB and he probably gets a ring, maybe two on a year when everything falls right. I view it like this the consistent playoff caliber team building of BB gave Brady as many shots at the SB as he got, psycho Tom is the guy that gets them over the top in crazy situations they have no business of winning. You only get 6 rings with BOTH.

Other than telling me to piss off, that's a pretty reasonable post. Although of course I don't agree with everything and I won't pick it apart sentence by sentence where I disagree but a couple of responses...

70 TDs and 7000 yards per season (especially in a 16-game season) is a bit much. Especially 1) Brady played his home games outdoors in the northeast, 2) Belichick is not letting his quarterback wing it all over the place for 4 quarters no matter the score like Sean Payton, and 3) Brady's weapons weren't consistently good enough for prolific numbers all the time.

20 rings... also a bit much. Although, Brady should have at least 9 rings... Belichick screwed the team in 2015 and 2017... and to a lesser degree in 2006 and 2013... but I'm really only convinced enough about 2015 and 2017... Belichick cost them two rings there.

Brady had someone else as a HC and a GM and he literally won right away (at age 43). He arguably was MVP of the league at age 44. This leads me to believe that Brady would have won more than 3 rings with another (or other) HC(s) and GM(s). Belichick has had 10 chances without Brady and he's come up empty 10 times... that's a pretty bad percentage (0). My argument isn't Bill sucks, or he isn't a HOFer, or even he's not one of the all time great head coaches. My argument is Brady IS the GOAT, he brought a unique set of attributes to the field that led to A LOT of spectacular winning, and HE is the most important person of the Patriots dynasty. I don't think that's an outrageous take.

 

[Triumph]

Thornton's getting cut huh?

I'm not counting on Son of Harry.

He probably lands on PUP.

 

[Triumph]

I agree but they're better with Hopkins at the top and everyone else sliding down a spot. I don't think JuJu or Parker are guaranteed WR1's. Solid WR2's yes. Bourne is a very good WR4 but more of an average WR3. I think the addition of Hopkins would be significant.

Then ya got the QB who they are transitioning to WR.

Marcus Jones is a weapon.

Bootee, Douglas or a roster cut could chip in.

I'm not concerned about getting Hopkins. I am concerned about getting the guys here now the ball.

 

[pazrul72]

Brady had someone else as a HC and a GM and he literally won right away (at age 43). He arguably was MVP of the league at age 44. This leads me to believe that Brady would have won more than 3 rings with another (or other) HC(s) and GM(s). Belichick has had 10 chances without Brady and he's come up empty 10 times... that's a pretty bad percentage (0). My argument isn't Bill sucks, or he isn't a HOFer, or even he's not one of the all time great head coaches. My argument is Brady IS the GOAT, he brought a unique set of attributes to the field that led to A LOT of spectacular winning, and HE is the most important person of the Patriots dynasty. I don't think that's an outrageous tatake.

Key point you are missing and you refuse to even acknowledge. That was AFTER 18 years with BB. Yes Brady became the GOAT thru alot of hard work and impressive drive, but he was a 6th round pick no one wanted and I'm not convinced any other coach/gm puts in the time and work to develop him into what he became. IMO the reason he was able to succeed right away in Tampa is he brought the habits and discipline he learned from BB with him. It's also a **** ton easier to change one guy, going from what 40 turnovers? To Brady who doesn't turn the ball over then it is to change an entire team which is what BB has to do. Plus why is Brady so turnover conscience? Oh yeah Bill being up his butt about it for years.

Now I will be honest I am and always have been a big BB guy. I say juat between BB and Brady its 60/40 cuz Bill has to build the entire roster, including Brady. I knew he wouldn't keep pumping out 14-2 seasons without Brady but I did think the pats would continue to be a playoff caliber team year in and year out like Pittsburgh or GB. Last year's fiasco was the first time I am legitimately questioning what he was thinking and how he lost control so badly. Doesn't change he is at least half of the reason my favorite team has 6 Lombardis and I have enough happy memories to last a lifetime. He gets another shot to fix it no questions asked from me cuz I believe he is the best and is just as pissed as we are at last year. A pissed off BB is something I am looking forward to watching

 

[crownontherocks]

I saw on Twitter dhop is currently in NY

 

[crownontherocks]

 

[crawhammer]

Key point you are missing and you refuse to even acknowledge. That was AFTER 18 years with BB. Yes Brady became the GOAT thru alot of hard work and impressive drive, but he was a 6th round pick no one wanted and I'm not convinced any other coach/gm puts in the time and work to develop him into what he became. IMO the reason he was able to succeed right away in Tampa is he brought the habits and discipline he learned from BB with him. It's also a **** ton easier to change one guy, going from what 40 turnovers? To Brady who doesn't turn the ball over then it is to change an entire team which is what BB has to do. Plus why is Brady so turnover conscience? Oh yeah Bill being up his butt about it for years.

Now I will be honest I am and always have been a big BB guy. I say juat between BB and Brady its 60/40 cuz Bill has to build the entire roster, including Brady. I knew he wouldn't keep pumping out 14-2 seasons without Brady but I did think the pats would continue to be a playoff caliber team year in and year out like Pittsburgh or GB. Last year's fiasco was the first time I am legitimately questioning what he was thinking and how he lost control so badly. Doesn't change he is at least half of the reason my favorite team has 6 Lombardis and I have enough happy memories to last a lifetime. He gets another shot to fix it no questions asked from me cuz I believe he is the best and is just as pissed as we are at last year. A pissed off BB is something I am looking forward to watching

I'm glad you think so highly of Belichick. I just see it differently and I don't expect either one of us to change the other's mind. I can respect your opinion because you're presenting it reasonably and genuinely. Seems like you have a great appreciation for Brady as well but attribute more of his development and overall success to Belichick than I would. That's fine. I'm sure you don't attribute Belichick's success to Brady as much as I do... I just see 18 seasons of tremendous success and winning and then I see another 10 seasons of very little to no success. It's a striking difference to me.

I think Brady's Super Bowl win with Tampa Bay was huge for his legacy. Likewise I think if Belichick can at least win a division title and make a deep playoff run (preferably to the Super Bowl) then that would be big for his legacy. Really if he can win a Super Bowl with Mac Jones (who I consider mediocre) then I would unequivocally consider him the GOAT HC (and probably be convinced to increase his percentage of credit for the Patriots dynasty... but right now Brady comfortably has the largest slice of that pie).

 

[captain stone]

Thornton's getting cut huh?

He's WR4... Which is still one spot higher than he'll be when Hopkins is signed here I hope, with Double-D as WR6.

 

[mgteich]

He's WR4... Which is still one spot higher than he'll be when Hopkins is signed here I hope, with Double-D as WR6.

Does it make sense to have Thornton as a #5 receiver?

If everyone is healthy for the final cut (including Hopkins), then someone will be cut or traded.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I'm glad you think so highly of Belichick. I just see it differently and I don't expect either one of us to change the other's mind. I can respect your opinion because you're presenting it reasonably and genuinely. Seems like you have a great appreciation for Brady as well but attribute more of his development and overall success to Belichick than I would. That's fine. I'm sure you don't attribute Belichick's success to Brady as much as I do... I just see 18 seasons of tremendous success and winning and then I see another 10 seasons of very little to no success. It's a striking difference to me.

I think Brady's Super Bowl win with Tampa Bay was huge for his legacy. Likewise I think if Belichick can at least win a division title and make a deep playoff run (preferably to the Super Bowl) then that would be big for his legacy. Really if he can win a Super Bowl with Mac Jones (who I consider mediocre) then I would unequivocally consider him the GOAT HC (and probably be convinced to increase his percentage of credit for the Patriots dynasty... but right now Brady comfortably has the largest slice of that pie).

LOL, you keep forgetting about one (big) thing...yeah, just pretend like it didn't happen.

 

[captain stone]

Does it make sense to have Thornton as a #5 receiver?

Yeah why not? As of today, he doesn't deserve more snaps than any of a possible foursome of Hopkins, JuJu, Parker & Bourne.

If everyone is healthy for the final cut (including Hopkins), then someone will be cut or traded.

That's possible.

 

[Vindicate]

Other than telling me to piss off, that's a pretty reasonable post. Although of course I don't agree with everything and I won't pick it apart sentence by sentence where I disagree but a couple of responses...

70 TDs and 7000 yards per season (especially in a 16-game season) is a bit much. Especially 1) Brady played his home games outdoors in the northeast, 2) Belichick is not letting his quarterback wing it all over the place for 4 quarters no matter the score like Sean Payton, and 3) Brady's weapons weren't consistently good enough for prolific numbers all the time.

20 rings... also a bit much. Although, Brady should have at least 9 rings... Belichick screwed the team in 2015 and 2017... and to a lesser degree in 2006 and 2013... but I'm really only convinced enough about 2015 and 2017... Belichick cost them two rings there.

Brady had someone else as a HC and a GM and he literally won right away (at age 43). He arguably was MVP of the league at age 44. This leads me to believe that Brady would have won more than 3 rings with another (or other) HC(s) and GM(s). Belichick has had 10 chances without Brady and he's come up empty 10 times... that's a pretty bad percentage (0). My argument isn't Bill sucks, or he isn't a HOFer, or even he's not one of the all time great head coaches. My argument is Brady IS the GOAT, he brought a unique set of attributes to the field that led to A LOT of spectacular winning, and HE is the most important person of the Patriots dynasty. I don't think that's an outrageous take.

The 2015 take is interesting, I felt like it was injuries that really derailed that season. BB didn't help by any means, but:

LeGarrette Blount
Dion Lewis
Devlin
Mayo
Easley
Chris Jones
Trey Flowers
Solder
Wendell
Vollmer
Edelman for a chunk of games
And more.

God that sucked.

 

[crawhammer]

The 2015 take is interesting, I felt like it was injuries that really derailed that season. BB didn't help by any means, but:

LeGarrette Blount
Dion Lewis
Devlin
Mayo
Easley
Chris Jones
Trey Flowers
Solder
Wendell
Vollmer
Edelman for a chunk of games
And more.

God that sucked.

Injuries are part of the story for every team but there can come a point where it's overwhelming. I just look back at that regular season and see that Belichick made significantly poor decisions in each of the 4 losses. The weeks 16 and 17 miscalculations cost the team the #1 seed, a trip to the Super Bowl, and a Super Bowl win over Cam 'couldn't handle the moment' Newton.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

 

[RIpats88]

Ultimately Hopkins will sign with New England or Tennesee....if there were any other serious suitors he would have another visit lined up and we would hear about it in the media. Training camp doesnt start until end of July.

waiting for some top receiver to slip on a banana peel and teams to clear major cap space to give him everything he wants is a longshot plan and likely not going to happen

 

[Wozzy]

I want them to sign Hopkins and keep Parker... Hopkins, JuJu, and Parker... that's your best WR 1,2,3.

Their best 1-2-3 is Hopkins as their big possession WR, Thornton as the field stretcher on the outside with Juju in the slot.

Parker plays the same position as Hopkins, and Bourne can give a little of each from the above guys... he has position versatility where Parker has none. They're also not going to pay both Hopkins and Parker, the only thing that will make this happen is total injury collapse in camp and preseason.

It's called a prognostication. You apparently can't comprehend the word.

You never used the word. You call Mac average or below average on these pages regularly,

Which means there are 16 QB's in the NFL better than Mac. You have no clue what Mac will develop into, neither do I... but only you pretend like you do.

Patriots and Chiefs aren't quarterbacks. Brady and Mahomes are and the debate here is 1) the importance of the QB position in general and 2) the importance of the very best QBs to their teams. Winning 67% of Super Bowls over the course of nearly a full decade is pretty telling.

Teams win Super Bowls, you engage in hero worship and expect the rest of us to pretend along with you.

That's called backtracking already. You went from top 6 to top 10 with a bunch of ifs and variables. I can tell you right now this offense will not be top 6 in points or yards and top 10 is doubtful in either as well. I'll be happy with a top 11-15 offense and a top 5 defense... that may be doable and really is necessary if they're going to be competitive this season.

I said they ranked 6th in the NFL in 2021 in scoring when Mac was a rookie... that was a statistical fact, not an opinion.

The team could be better than it was in 2021 and still get beat in the playoffs if the team they're playing is better... it's a team game. It's also not my opinion that the Pats have the toughest schedule in the NFL on paper in 2023, Vegas and pundits all agree.

Over the last two seasons, here are where Henry and Gesicki rank among TEs (minimum 40 receptions which qualified 41 players)...

Henry
19th Rec
16th Yards
8th Y/R
6th TDs
12th 1st Downs
24th Catch%

Gesicki
15th Rec
15th Yards
16th Y/R
14th TDs
11th 1st Downs
35th Catch%

By the numbers, neither are individually among the best TEs in the NFL. As a duo they're in decent shape. I'm actually happy with the combination but you're greatly exaggerating their individual contributions.

Did Randy Moss suck in 2006... was he less of a talent than he was in 2007?

Receivers are dependent on the team around them; the coordinator, the QB, the line, the weapons that draw coverage away from them along with the level of defenses they face over the course of a season.

You suggesting receivers play in a vacuum is a load of crap.

Brady's an extraordinary player whose impact on two franchises is unparalleled. No QB in the history of the NFL has ever won a Super Bowl in their first season as a starter for two different teams. He won 7 Super Bowls in 21 seasons with 6 game-winning drives and 5 MVPs. He was the only Patriots player to appear every Super Bowl win... from one end to the other the entire roster changed except for 1 player. You continue to deny the obvious.

Brady played on the best teams in the league annually for two decades, that allowed him to play his best. This is evident in team stats over that time.

Conversely Matt Stafford played on the league doormat for 12 seasons, which is why he averaged 6 wins per season over that period and never won a playoff game. He went to the Rams and won 4 playoff games including a Super Bowl in one season... just like Tom.

It's a team sport, you give one position all the credit for team success.

It's blind hero worship and a total cluelessness about the sport.

 

[Wozzy]

They don't but talent is talent and as much of a professional all things KC hater that I am, Kelce is an all time great by his talent and production.

Production yes, talent no... and don't get me wrong, Kelce is supremely talented, he's just not the only one. There are other equally talented players or some even more talented.

Kyle Pitts is more talented, Gesicki is more talented... neither has Mahomes throwing to them, the most expensive offensive line blocking while they get open, or the greatest offensive mind in the game in Reid designing and calling plays for them. Receivers don't play the course like golfers, they're beholden to the conditions and players around them.

 

[Ross12]

Guys, stop fighting about Brady, holy crap. And for the love of god just use the damn mute button. You don’t gain any social credits by winning forum arguments.

 

[crawhammer]

Guys, stop fighting about Brady, holy crap. And for the love of god just use the damn mute button. You don’t gain any social credits by winning forum arguments.

************, what happened to my post?? Seriously, you're pulling an Ashley on me now. Effing rude.