Gilmore traded to Carolina

[PScottman]

If it was a rebuild year, the pats do not spend 160 mil in the offseason. Thats a go all in to win year.

If those were all one year signings I think you could make that claim. Most are multiple year contracts and there remains a rule that a certain percentage of the cap must be utilized across every league year.

If "win" was defined as fringe playoff team? I suppose maybe if EVERY other variable turned in the Pats favor including a rookie QB's abilities, injuries, every signing paying off as projected "on paper", etc but that isn't realistic either.

If "win" was defined as anything better than that such as AFCCG or better? C'mon. They wouldn't have traded Michel nor Gilmore either in that context. There wouldn't have been ANY looking toward the future transactions.

EDIT: And add in the context of owners don't want a huge exodus of fans - so they will expend some capital to appease those that see any moves as "trying to win".

 

[TheRainMaker]

Do you like Mac ? Do you think he’s a key building block ?

We can’t see his full potential until the O line gets under control. He’s throwing quick dump off passes to RB’s and still getting rocked. It’s tough to watch.

 

[Pats1971]

I think there’s potential if he doesn’t get killed. But that’s the thing, they need to upgrade like 3 spots on the o-line which is scary.

Bill Parcells - Potential means you have not done anything.

The idea anyone can say what a QB is going to be after 4 games is crazy and I mean this both ways. He has played decent. He is 20th right now in QB grades. Does that mean he will always be 20th? No, Does that mean wow he is 20th he is going to be a hall of famer!! No. Really you have no idea. I heard JG was the second coming, then when he had to play more than spot duty, he could not stay healthy. There are always things here and there that add a ceiling to what a player is. He could turn out to be an all time great, or he could turn out to be Andy Dalton. I have seen a million QB's come into this league and all of them before they took a snap had the potential to be great. Very few did. This is a wait and see as much as anything in football.

 

[farn]

I think there’s potential if he doesn’t get killed. But that’s the thing, they need to upgrade like 3 spots on the o-line which is scary.

Very rarely does a young QB succeed from the start. There is no question the OL must improve ASAP. If the pieces in NE aren’t sufficient, they must address it elsewhere.

Most high kick QBs begin in places with holes. NE has more holes than I had anticipated. But I think « close losses », while discouraging, can still lead to winning down the road. The key will be improvement and experience. Other frustrating games await us - at some point - before this machine starts rolling.

 

[carmelo15]

The one thing I can think of that no one else has mentioned is that perhaps NE does want to keep him but not for anywhere near this money. Breer mentioned they actually asked him to take a pay cut, but we know he’s been adamant that he wanted a big extension before he would take the field.

By cutting him, now he has no choice. He has to visit teams and find out what his worth actually is, not what his agent tells him it is. Teams will get a look at how he is physically. Obviously the cap space crunch this year will impact this process.

Then once he’s talked to a few teams Bill can come back with his original offer and say “see? Wasn’t so bad was it? Sign here.”

I’m not saying it works, but it feels like a Bill move.

BB has made some of y’all delusional

 

[bresna]

They aren't likely to get any comp picks due to the FA signings.

All of their recent FA signings will affect the 2022 comp picks. Gilmore leaving as an FA at the end of this season would not come into play until the 2023 draft so we have no idea how many free agents the Pats will sign in the next offseason.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think there’s potential if he doesn’t get killed. But that’s the thing, they need to upgrade like 3 spots on the o-line which is scary.

They’d better do it in a hurry. Or else he’ll end up like David Carr.

 

[IllegalContact]

Bill Parcells - Potential means you have not done anything.

The idea anyone can say what a QB is going to be after 4 games is crazy and I mean this both ways. He has played decent. He is 20th right now in QB grades. Does that mean he will always be 20th? No, Does that mean wow he is 20th he is going to be a hall of famer!! No. Really you have no idea. I heard JG was the second coming, then when he had to play more than spot duty, he could not stay healthy. There are always things here and there that add a ceiling to what a player is. He could turn out to be an all time great, or he could turn out to be Andy Dalton. I have seen a million QB's come into this league and all of them before they took a snap had the potential to be great. Very few did. This is a wait and see as much as anything in football.

I disagree.......his mechanics, field of vision, the technical stuff, is pretty obvious to me....can't translate to being a good player if you lack those qualities....the mass sum may not be defined yet, but there's plenty to go by as far as the eye can see

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If they cut him, they would have saved almost $8 million. he's a UFA next year. Is he worth $8 million to the team this year?

No, he probably isn’t worth that much. I didn’t realize they could have saved that money. I don’t know on this one because I didn’t really ask myself that question. He has started slow in the past, too. I think with this question I would be biased with hindsight.

But the Gilmore criticism is a different case and has zero hindsight…the draft compensation he could have fetched in 2020 is exactly what a rebuilding team needs. And the opportunity to trade him wasn’t really based on his expected performance or expected value to the team in 2020. It was all about his trade value and that the team wasn’t going to compete and needed an influx of picks.

 

[Pats1971]

If those were all one year signings I think you could make that claim. Most are multiple year contracts and there remains a rule that a certain percentage of the cap must be utilized across every league year.

If "win" was defined as fringe playoff team? I suppose maybe if EVERY other variable turned in the Pats favor including a rookie QB's abilities, injuries, every signing paying off as projected "on paper", etc but that isn't realistic either.

If "win" was defined as anything better than that such as AFCCG or better? C'mon. They wouldn't have traded Michel nor Gilmore either in that context. There wouldn't have been ANY looking toward the future transactions.

Problem with what the Pats did which was different than anything they have done in the last 2 decades. Is you take a chance on spending spree in free agency because the players that play good one place might not play good here and you were not the ones that developed them. If you get them on the cheap, no big deal, thats what the pats used to do and hit on some. If you overspend on day one then you are stuck with an average player making an all pro price. I had this pounded in my head for 2 decades everytime I screamed we needed to sign someone in FA for big money. Thats my issue with it I guess. That way does not usually work out. I have seen team after team be bad and then get some cap money and go crazy, and it just never works. Building means it takes a few years, you cannot get it all back at once and by the time maybe our QB is ready to take that next step some of these contracts end or the player does not work and gets traded. Just did not like the way it was done this year because that is not how this team has done it for years and that way they did always seemed to work.

 

[bresna]

But a 5th next year is better than a 6th two years from now, no? The 6th is for 2023

If Gilly was kept and walked in free agency, he *might* garner a 5th round pick in 2023, not 2022. Comp picks are awarded one season after the signing. They do this in case a high-priced free agent gets injured and cannot play for their new team. That way, the team signing that free agent doesn't get penalized for the signing.

 

[TomPatriot]

I am so disappointed i would like to start
Use not the best appropriate italian words...
A 6th round 2023...

Come “figlio di puttana?”

 

[Pats1971]

I disagree.......his mechanics, field of vision, the technical stuff, is pretty obvious to me....can't translate to being a good player if you lack those qualities....the mass sum may not be defined yet, but there's plenty to go by as far as the eye can see

and if I did not hear that about other QB's over the years and they still didnt turn into a great QB that might mean something. I am not sitting here saying he will not be good, but there are a lot of other factors that halt careers. I heard Luck coming out had the most perfect mechanics field vision, etc etc. He played less than 8 years and never even got to a superbowl. The problem is as pats fans, the ceiling of expectation is not only a superbowl, its many, and that is just not a reality until it is.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Wow a 2023 6th rounder for Gilmore.

Bring in Eliot Wolf full-time as GM of the Pats not just as a consultant, internal front office people are in over their head.

.

 

[Kontradiction]

and if I did not hear that about other QB's over the years and they still didnt turn into a great QB that might mean something. I am not sitting here saying he will not be good, but there are a lot of other factors that halt careers. I heard Luck coming out had the most perfect mechanics field vision, etc etc. He played less than 8 years and never even got to a superbowl. The problem is as pats fans, the ceiling of expectation is not only a superbowl, its many, and that is just not a reality until it is.

Luck’s career is mirror image of what absorbing a ton of hits does to your career. Mac is currently going through that as we speak.

 

[RIpats88]

and if I did not hear that about other QB's over the years and they still didnt turn into a great QB that might mean something. I am not sitting here saying he will not be good, but there are a lot of other factors that halt careers. I heard Luck coming out had the most perfect mechanics field vision, etc etc. He played less than 8 years and never even got to a superbowl. The problem is as pats fans, the ceiling of expectation is not only a superbowl, its many, and that is just not a reality until it is.

Andrew luck was everything that was advertised. He retired because the colts poor roster ruined him with injuries. Which is what our fear should be with Mac jones

So far Mac Jones has far outplayed his rookie counterparts

 

[Pats1971]

Luck’s career is mirror image of what absorbing a ton of hits does to your career. Mac is currently going through that as we speak.

Yeah and I was not comparing the two, just saying that the "cant miss" guy who does all these things well, does not always mean they will guarantee the end game.

 

[Pats1971]

Andrew luck was everything that was advertised. He retired because the colts poor roster ruined him with injuries. Which is what our fear should be with Mac jones

So far Mac Jones has far outplayed his rookie counterparts

but he never won anything. Thats what I am getting at. He was good, but he was not so over the top that he transended a team to superbowls. Its funny though, at the time he left, the oline was one of the best in the league. Maybe some guys just do not have that inner drive to keep going.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Mac should ask for a trade next offseason if the O line isn’t addressed. And I’m not joking.

 

[PScottman]

Problem with what the Pats did which was different than anything they have done in the last 2 decades. Is you take a chance on spending spree in free agency because the players that play good one place might not play good here and you were not the ones that developed them. If you get them on the cheap, no big deal, thats what the pats used to do and hit on some. If you overspend on day one then you are stuck with an average player making an all pro price. I had this pounded in my head for 2 decades everytime I screamed we needed to sign someone in FA for big money. Thats my issue with it I guess. That way does not usually work out. I have seen team after team be bad and then get some cap money and go crazy, and it just never works. Building means it takes a few years, you cannot get it all back at once and by the time maybe our QB is ready to take that next step some of these contracts end or the player does not work and gets traded. Just did not like the way it was done this year because that is not how this team has done it for years and that way they did always seemed to work.

Totally understand.

The edit point I made I think factors here - and it kind've goes back to the Adalius Thomas signing where I think they got gun-shy to that high dollar free agent/re-signing approach (except at CB where they continued to use it - see Revis and Gilmore), but there's pressure from Kraft now given the "HIGH RISK/HIGH POTENTIAL REWARD" style drafting that's simultaneously been employed when Brady was here (that only panned out really getting Gronk) to ensure that the fanbase was kept engaged.

That said, I don't think that there is any contract signed (maybe Godchaux's) last year that couldn't be moved either if it came to that even with the lower numbers other GMs can see the OL issue - so likely guys like Henry, Algholor, etc still have some value.

With the draft style change seen this year, maybe the way ahead will be more balanced (as you recall) outside of THIS year at least until they don't have the QB on a rookie deal to be flexible and aggressive with.