How Belichick lost his place in posterity

[cmasspatsfan]

Noll won divisions, and playoff games with the likes of Mark Malone, David Woodley, Cliff Stoudt and Bubby Brister. He actually made it to AFCCG with Malone.

That's the point. Quite a few of these great HCs won the division and had several playoff wins with non-elite QBs and w/o their HOF QB. Something Belichick was unable to do w/o Brady.

Noll w/o Bradshaw: 10 seasons
Record: 86-97 (.470)
Losing seasons: 5
Division wins: 2
Made playoffs: 3
CCG: 1
Playoff record: 2-3

Belichick w/o Brady: 11 seasons
Record: 83-101 (.451)
Losing seasons: 8
Division wins: 0
Made playoffs: 2
CCG: 0
Playoff record: 1-2

There are other HCs that performed much better than Belichick w/o their elite QB. This just shows that Belichick's success was largely dependent on Brady in comparison to his peers.

But they still had better QB's than BB did, Shula the great only won 2, who cares what their record is without a top QB if they didn't win a super bowl. Give Bill a good QB and see what he does.

 

[Wozzy]

In the modern Super Bowl era, BB stands alone with 6 rings.

In over a century of pro football, only five guys had five or more championships, only Paul Brown has one more ring than BB.

But yeah... he sucked at his job. Sounds legit.

 

[maust]

And perhaps the very greatest of them all:

View attachment 57375

Can't tell the NFL story without Papa Bear and it's not a stretch to say he belongs on the Mt Rushmore of coaches
Although his first and last championships were over 40 years apart so what do we know?

 

[XLIX]

Hahaha... yeah, Switzer won with the same exact 2X SB winning roster and Jimmy Johnson's assistant coaches.

And that proves something?

It sure proves the importance - or lack thereof - of the head coach relative to the importance of the players when a HC who is generally agreed to be a very bad one can still win a Super Bowl.

 

[XLIX]

In the modern Super Bowl era, BB stands alone with 6 rings.

In over a century of pro football, only five guys had five or more championships, only Paul Brown has one more ring than BB.

But yeah... he sucked at his job. Sounds legit.

It is not that Belichick sucked at his job, it is that he was far, far less important than the team that took the field.

When a good coach has the right players, they are championship caliber. But when a coach, no matter how good, doesn't have the players, the team will be lousy.

The above statement is 100% undeniable.

 

[Tunescribe]

Can't tell the NFL story without Papa Bear and it's not a stretch to say he belongs on the Mt Rushmore of coaches
Although his first and last championships were over 40 years apart so what do we know?

I shared the story a while back of when I met him. It was a special moment shaking hands with the founder of the NFL.

 

[signbabybrady]

It is not that Belichick sucked at his job, it is that he was far, far less important than the team that took the field.

When a good coach has the right players, they are championship caliber. But when a coach, no matter how good, doesn't have the players, the team will be lousy.

The above statement is 100% undeniable.

Whatever that number is if you decide players are worth 100 times more or 2 times more than coaches you can then apply that to all coaches and then you still have to decide which coach you think is best.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Noll won divisions, and playoff games with the likes of Mark Malone, David Woodley, Cliff Stoudt and Bubby Brister. He actually made it to AFCCG with Malone.

That's the point. Quite a few of these great HCs won the division and had several playoff wins with non-elite QBs and w/o their HOF QB. Something Belichick was unable to do w/o Brady.

Noll w/o Bradshaw: 10 seasons
Record: 86-97 (.470)
Losing seasons: 5
Division wins: 2
Made playoffs: 3
CCG: 1
Playoff record: 2-3

Belichick w/o Brady: 11 seasons
Record: 83-101 (.451)
Losing seasons: 8
Division wins: 0
Made playoffs: 2
CCG: 0
Playoff record: 1-2

There are other HCs that performed much better than Belichick w/o their elite QB. This just shows that Belichick's success was largely dependent on Brady in comparison to his peers.

There's a life out there for you, I know it.

 

[sb1]

In the modern Super Bowl era, BB stands alone with 6 rings.

In over a century of pro football, only five guys had five or more championships, only Paul Brown has one more ring than BB.

But yeah... he sucked at his job. Sounds legit.

 

[sb1]

It is not that Belichick sucked at his job, it is that he was far, far less important than the team that took the field.

When a good coach has the right players, they are championship caliber. But when a coach, no matter how good, doesn't have the players, the team will be lousy.

The above statement is 100% undeniable.

Or maybe a 6 win team with an average coach wins 7 with a good coach. Yay?

Coaches usually can't win games but they can lose them.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I remember some crazy stat about those Dolphins teams. Only one 1000 yard rusher in Marinos career. Karim Abdul Jabbar in 96 . No, not the basketball player. Talk about not emphasizing the run game.

Another example of the magic of TB12 and BB's partnership. TB12 remained committed to a team oriented gameplan and BB ensured that the QB remained accountable even after he became the best. In Miami Marino's initial success led to over confidence in his ability to win by himself. Shula always deferred to featuring Marino in the game plan which continued to fuel his ego and made the team too one dimensional to win when it counted.

 

[Triumph]

Noll won divisions, and playoff games with the likes of Mark Malone, David Woodley, Cliff Stoudt and Bubby Brister. He actually made it to AFCCG with Malone.

That's the point. Quite a few of these great HCs won the division and had several playoff wins with non-elite QBs and w/o their HOF QB. Something Belichick was unable to do w/o Brady.

Noll w/o Bradshaw: 10 seasons
Record: 86-97 (.470)
Losing seasons: 5
Division wins: 2
Made playoffs: 3
CCG: 1
Playoff record: 2-3

Belichick w/o Brady: 11 seasons
Record: 83-101 (.451)
Losing seasons: 8
Division wins: 0
Made playoffs: 2
CCG: 0
Playoff record: 1-2

There are other HCs that performed much better than Belichick w/o their elite QB. This just shows that Belichick's success was largely dependent on Brady in comparison to his peers.

Noll likely could not relate to young players of that era and it eventually did him in.

Regarding BB, Cam was old skool, but you needed a translator to understand his tweets and text's. CNR - could not relate.

 

[1960Pats]

What did Brady have that the greatest QB's of his generation didn't?

Hmmm....

Using the career defensive ranking doesn't tell the complete story. For the first half of the dynasty the Pats had a real strong defense. The second half had a stronger offense.

 

[sb1]

What did Brady have that the greatest QB's of his generation didn't?

Hmmm....

Overstated.

Debunking Brady being "carried" to Super Bowls by his defense

I found a site where you can find advanced stats on offense and defense per year with filters. One of these stats is EPA - expected points provided by defense or offense per game and per play. For offense positive EPA is good and negative EPA is bad and for defense it's the other way around...

www.patsfans.com

 

[Tunescribe]

Using the career defensive ranking doesn't tell the complete story. For the first half of the dynasty the Pats had a real strong defense. The second half had a stronger offense.

True in a general sense, but the Patriots defense was remarkably consistent throughout Brady's career re. points per game allowed.

Patriots Defensive Rank By Year 2000 To 2023 | StatMuse

patriots defensive rank by year 2000 to 2023

www.statmuse.com

 

[venecol]

What did Brady have that the greatest QB's of his generation didn't?

Hmmm....

 

[maust]

"Stats are for losers, the final score is for winners"

The only defensive metric that truly matters is points allowed. When the clock hits 00:00 nobody gives a rat's patootie about what the DVOA or any other 'performance' number indicates. What you gave up in points vs what you produced is THE point of playing the game after all. There's a reason why they're the biggest numbers on the board when the smoke clears.

 

[203Pat]

Lol this thread exactly how most assumed it would.

 

[Wozzy]

Using the career defensive ranking doesn't tell the complete story. For the first half of the dynasty the Pats had a real strong defense. The second half had a stronger offense.

Wrong. In 2014, 2016 and 2018 they had top ranked defenses. 2019 might have been the best dynasty defense of all but the offense fell apart.

 

[Wozzy]

DVOA is garbage.

There’s no need for completely made up stats when points, turnovers and 3rd down percentage is enough.