How Much Will We Have To Pay Our Veteran 2004 QB Starter?

[mgteich]

and not saying "give me Brissette or give me death", but there is a HUGE advantage and upgrade in signing a vet bridge, especially when you look at the $$ necessary to get them here.....even IF you draft a 1st RD QB, you need someone in that room besides zappe & mac & rourke (at least 2 of those 3 are going before camp breaks)

I'd prefer almost any on the list to Zappe. Stidham is another fine option.

 

[yukon cornelius]

I'd prefer almost any on the list to Zappe. Stidham is another fine option.

i think i'd prefer all of them over zappe at this point

 

[jmt57]

The previous list included QBs who are not 2024 free agents (it was just for an idea of what a veteran bridge QB would cost).

Here is the market value and current AAV for 2024 free agent QBs, per Spotrac:

2024 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Tracking the status and signings of all 2024 NFL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

Age -- Player --------- 2023 AAV --- Estimated Market Value
35 -- Kirk Cousins ------ $35mil ---- $39.6 million
35 -- Ryan Tannehill ---- $29.5m -- $4.9m
31 -- Jacoby Brissett ---- $8.0mil --- ???
34 -- Tyrod Taylor ------- $5.5m ---- $2.8m
30 -- Marcus Mariota --- $5.0m --- ???
26 -- Sam Darnold ------ $4.5m --- ???
30 -- Jameis Winston --- $4.0m --- $2.7m
27 -- Drew Lock --------- $4.0m --- ???
28 -- Baker Mayfield ---- $4.0m --- $16.4m
27 -- Gardner Minshew - $3.5m --- $5.3m
31 -- Teddy Bridgewater - $3.0m -- ???
25 -- Tyler Huntley ------ $2.67m -- ???
38 -- Joe Flacco --------- $2.50m -- ???
28 -- Joshua Dobbs ----- $2.00m -- $6.7m
28 -- Easton Stick -------- $1.80m -- ???
30 -- Nate Sudfeld ------- $1.60m -- ???
34 -- Blaine Gabbert ----- $1.32m -- ???
37 -- Josh Johnson ------ $1.32m --- ???
27 -- Kyle Allen ---------- $1.23m --- ???
31 -- Brandon Allen ----- $1.23m --- ???
32 -- Trevor Siemian ----- $1.17m --- ???
33 -- AJ McCarron ------- $1.17m --- ???
33 -- Matt Barkley ------- $1.17m --- ???
28 -- Mason Rudolph ---- $1.08m --- ???
28 -- Logan Woodside --- $952k ---- ???

I crossed out the names of players who would not fit in the category of veteran (less experience than Zappe).
Italics denotes players that will be too expensive for this role.

 

[Pape]

well, he gives a career comp % of over 61%, and an over 2:1 TD to INT ratio

over the past 3 seasons, which was 21 starts, a completion % in the 65% range and 20 TDs/10 INT


those numbers are LIGHT YEARS better than what even best case zappe gives you

that's the kind of difference that would GET the FA WR to sign here

last year, in cleveland - Amari Cooper, Nick Chubb, David Njoku, Peeples-Jones he lead that team to a 4-7 record. That's a talented roster. Thats not a lot of wins with that group.

His numbers? On par with what Mac Jones put up in 2022 in 14 games.

That's not getting you close to sniffing the playoffs.

the most succesful young QBs have had a vet in the room to help them

your own merits sounds nice......this league chews up and spits out lots of merit every year

and its a fairy tale that veteran quarter backs sit back and dole out sage words of wisdom to rookies gunning for their jobs. Players learn by doing, not by listening to stories while sitting on Grandpa Joe's knee.

and not saying "give me Brissette or give me death", but there is a HUGE advantage and upgrade in signing a vet bridge, especially when you look at the $$ necessary to get them here.....even IF you draft a 1st RD QB, you need someone in that room besides zappe & mac & rourke (at least 2 of those 3 are going before camp breaks)

Is there a huge advantage? Its more of an urban legend, a feel good story, with the salty vet going on one last gutsy run...

Washington signed the aforementioned Jacoby Brissette to be the veteran back up this year... didn't do Sam Howell much good, did it?
Atlanta brought in Taylor Heinicke to be the veteran back up this year... didn't do Desmond Ritter much good, did it?
Mitch Trubisky in Pittsburgh?
Gardner Minshew in Indy?
I'll give you that Joe Flacco impressed, coming off the bench... but the other guys? nah.

Simple fact of the matter is - if you are trotting out a bridge quarterback, you don't have a quarterback. If Zappe was put into the starting line-up a month earlier, gains that vital in game & the 1 practice reps ie experience (think week 6 or 7, your choice) do we lose to the Giants? The Colts? The Commanders? The Chargers (his first start)? I dunno... but those were winnable games.

At this point, where this roster stands, there is zero reason to bring in a veteran. So you go from 4-13 to what? 7-10? 8-9? 9-8? Oh wow, that's worth 8.5 to 10m a year /s

I'd rather re-sign one of our own, or snag a quality skill position free agent and/or the higher draft pick, thank you very much.

 

[JohnJH]

I think that we need a veteran to be the starter in 2024 until the rookie is ready.

How much should we expect to pay for a solid starter/backup for 2024-2025 and 2025-2026?
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A veteran starter to be our #1 franchise leader seems to be $35M to $40M.

What is likely to be the cost of a starter who is expected t become a backup after half a year? Perhaps we really can get a Brissette or Tannelhill for $10M - $12M a year.

If we rebuild the O-Line, WR Corps, and other positions on offense, I would rather just let Zappe play another year with Rourke as the backup and then, as we'll probably be drafting high in 2025, then we can possibly get 'The Guy" at QB. It's how the Chiefs and other teams have done it.

 

[JohnJH]

last year, in cleveland - Amari Cooper, Nick Chubb, David Njoku, Peeples-Jones he lead that team to a 4-7 record. That's a talented roster. Thats not a lot of wins with that group.

His numbers? On par with what Mac Jones put up in 2022 in 14 games.

That's not getting you close to sniffing the playoffs.


and its a fairy tale that veteran quarter backs sit back and dole out sage words of wisdom to rookies gunning for their jobs. Players learn by doing, not by listening to stories while sitting on Grandpa Joe's knee.


Is there a huge advantage? Its more of an urban legend, a feel good story, with the salty vet going on one last gutsy run...

Washington signed the aforementioned Jacoby Brissette to be the veteran back up this year... didn't do Sam Howell much good, did it?
Atlanta brought in Taylor Heinicke to be the veteran back up this year... didn't do Desmond Ritter much good, did it?
Mitch Trubisky in Pittsburgh?
Gardner Minshew in Indy?
I'll give you that Joe Flacco impressed, coming off the bench... but the other guys? nah.

Simple fact of the matter is - if you are trotting out a bridge quarterback, you don't have a quarterback. If Zappe was put into the starting line-up a month earlier, gains that vital in game & the 1 practice reps ie experience (think week 6 or 7, your choice) do we lose to the Giants? The Colts? The Commanders? The Chargers (his first start)? I dunno... but those were winnable games.

At this point, where this roster stands, there is zero reason to bring in a veteran. So you go from 4-13 to what? 7-10? 8-9? 9-8? Oh wow, that's worth 8.5 to 10m a year /s

I'd rather re-sign one of our own, or snag a quality skill position free agent and/or the higher draft pick, thank you very much.

Build up the rest of the offense and then, as we'll probably be drafting high again, get the QB in a year or two. No reason to spend money on a pricey veteran, especially when we're going to need a QB for long term success anyway.

 

[Pape]

Build up the rest of the offense and then, as we'll probably be drafting high again, get the QB in a year or two. No reason to spend money on a pricey veteran, especially when we're going to need a QB for long term success anyway.

i agree. this roster has too many holes to fill to worry about something like a veteran back up.

 

[VrabelJr]

Taylor Heinicke is an interesting bridge because I still believe BB can get the best out of QBs. I don't think he magically lost that just because of Jones and (maybe) Zappe.

 

[mgteich]

i agree. this roster has too many holes to fill to worry about something like a veteran back up.

I truly understand the position that competing for the playoffs doesn't matter, and the being in the playoffs doesn't really batter either.
For some, all that matters is that we are one of the top 5-6 teams in the NFL, reasonably competing for a Super Bowl.

They simply don't care if we would have been fighting for a playoff spot in the last couple of weeks if we had one of the veteran QB's on either of the lists.
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I STRONGLY DISAGREE
I strongly believe that a team with $100M of cap money can afford $8M-$15M AAV for a player that it is likely to make us much more likely to be competitive in the hunt for the playoffs. And, just BTW, I believe that Kraft's believe the same. They have promised and delivered a competitive product since the first saved the team, well until this year. We were even competing until the last couple of weeks in 2022.

I think that any potential GM or head coach who suggests starting Zappe, with ROurke as the backup to start the season should have about one minute to leave after voicing such a position.
================
HOW MANY TEAMS COMPETING FOR THE PLAYOFFS
have no major needs? NONE

We can draft a QB in the first few picks, sign a veteran QB starter, draft 2 OT's in firdt 2nd-4th rounds, sign almost all of or free agents (probably not Dugger) and upgrade a couple of positions in free agency. And yes, we need an upgrade from Parker.

The defense only needs a couple of minor re-signs: Jennings and Wilson. And yes, they need a free safety to replace Dugger.

Can the Offense be almost average in 2024? Perhaps.

 

[n6249c]

If we rebuild the O-Line, WR Corps, and other positions on offense, I would rather just let Zappe play another year with Rourke as the backup and then, as we'll probably be drafting high in 2025, then we can possibly get 'The Guy" at QB. It's how the Chiefs and other teams have done it.

I generally agree. Would sign a vet FA and draft a rookie project to compete with and complement Rourke and Zappe. Keep drafting another QB every year until “The Guy” shows up. Then continue doing it to have the best possible backup and succession planning in place.

 

[mgteich]

I generally agree. Would sign a vet FA and draft a rookie project to compete with and complement Rourke and Zappe. Keep drafting another QB every year until “The Guy” shows up. Then continue doing it to have the best possible backup and succession planning in place.

I presumably that prospects to compete with Zappe and Rourke would be found in the 3rd, 4th or 5th round. Zappe is arguably the worst QB in the entire NFL, starter or backup ( I guess that one exception is Mac).

Consider the odds in finding a franchise QB in the 3rd round or later. Of course it does it does happen, what, one out of every late round pick?

Consider using our 2nd every year. The odds are still low.

The chances are much, much better for a pick in the top 15.
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What your strategy would do is have us improve a bit, perhaps enough to keep us from having a top 10 pick. In the end, you would be forced to pay $40M a year to add the one missing piece to your team.
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Personally, I don't like that strategy at all. I prefer to pick a QB. If he is no very goo, then we draft a QB again next year or the year after. The difference is that the QB's would be much, much more likely to succeed.

 

[n6249c]

I presumably that prospects to compete with Zappe and Rourke would be found in the 3rd, 4th or 5th round. Zappe is arguably the worst QB in the entire NFL, starter or backup ( I guess that one exception is Mac).

Consider the odds in finding a franchise QB in the 3rd round or later. Of course it does it does happen, what, one out of every late round pick?

Consider using our 2nd every year. The odds are still low.

The chances are much, much better for a pick in the top 15.
==========
What your strategy would do is have us improve a bit, perhaps enough to keep us from having a top 10 pick. In the end, you would be forced to pay $40M a year to add the one missing piece to your team.
========
Personally, I don't like that strategy at all. I prefer to pick a QB. If he is no very goo, then we draft a QB again next year or the year after. The difference is that the QB's would be much, much more likely to succeed.

I’m just not convinced there’s really much better likelihood of scoring a franchise QB drafting high every year. It seems a crap shoot no matter what so I’d rather not throw good money after bad chasing that holy grail. If Cousins didn’t have the injury question mark it might be investing in him would be best move, because you know what you’re getting.

 

[Pape]

I truly understand the position that competing for the playoffs doesn't matter, and the being in the playoffs doesn't really batter either.

I STRONGLY DISAGREE
I strongly believe that a team with $100M of cap money can afford $8M-$15M AAV for a player that it is likely to make us much more likely to be competitive in the hunt for the playoffs. And, just BTW, I believe that Kraft's believe the same. They have promised and delivered a competitive product since the first saved the team, well until this year. We were even competing until the last couple of weeks in 2022.

I think that any potential GM or head coach who suggests starting Zappe, with ROurke as the backup to start the season should have about one minute to leave after voicing such a position.

The quarterback you are looking for? The one that will bring you to the point where we are competitive enough to achieve 10 wins (minimum what it will take to make the playoffs in the AFCE)? He doesn't exist. Not on the list of guys JMT posted.

Only four players on said list have lead a team to 10+ wins - Cousins (x2), Tannehill (x2), Bridgewater (x1) & Mayfield (x1)... Since Bridgewater announced his retirement, that leaves three... Based on past contracts -Cousins is in the 35m range, Tannehill 20-25m range, and Mayfield isnt leaving Tampa...

Better to allocate the resources to other positions. Fill the holes you know you have with the best available players. No need to waste cap dollars. If you get a quality rookie QB, that position will take care of itself, regardless of who is under center at the beginning of a new season

my 2¢

 

[KCSVEN]

They should bring in a veteran to compete with Zappe, assuming Mac is traded, for the backup role but if Daniels/Maye/Williams can't beat out the likes of Jacoby Brissett in training camp we might be in trouble anyways.
Maye and Williams are totally expected to start day 1 for the team that drafts them.
Daniels will be a 24-year-old rookie with 5 years of starting college experience and well known for taking care of the ball.
All 3 should be clearly the best QB in camp based on the realistic options for a veteran QB. You are basically bringing in a backup veteran, which they should, but need to keep that contract relatively low. 5-7 million maybe.

 

[yukon cornelius]

I'm not agreeing with the folks that think it's a guarantee zappe is back in camp, or makes the team if he is......