PostGame Thread OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD: Patriots lose to Raiders 21-17

[Ross12]

You can't start from absolutely nothing on Offense and have the situation "flipped quickly" unless one gets very lucky at QB.

OK, we're starting over. Some money needs to replace or re-sign Dugger, Uche and Jenning.
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How can fill all the needs of Offense? Who are you keeping? Douglas? Rham? anyone else?
2 QB
4 WR
3 RB
3 TE
9 OL

When I say “flipped quickly” I mean get back into position to be a team that can be in the mix to make a wild card spot. I don’t think that’s unrealistic. Obviously there are many holes, but there are some solid players on the roster and some that may just need a little development. If you can ink a few good veterans with your cap space and have a good draft starting off with a very high pick (or one that’s a little less high with a trade down, but then a surplus of picks), you can find yourself in a better spot quickly.

 

[Rob0729]

Did you see that overthrow off the back foot slightly across the body and about a foot over the head (and behind ) of Hunter Henry though?!?! That was atrocious

I am not defending Mac. I said he had issues too. I am saying that no QB could make this offense good. It is a dumpster fire.

 

[Salsalife]

Welcome to the bottom Patriot fans. I join you and hopefully we will return someday to glory.

 

[RIpats88]

Agreed. Mac isn't the answer. Replacing him isn't the fix either.

The first problem on the offense is the line. It sucks. It generates no run blocking, instantly collappses on the pass rush even when only 4 are coming, and they are constantly getting penalties.

You can replace Mac and this still isn't an NFL caliber offense and are still losing games.

Maybe we get less picks as another QB maybe doesn't force it. (Although they probably throw a couple )

But no one is making the OL block better stop taking penalties or Parker/Bourne/juju elite receivers.

The roster is poorly constructed with no talent due to ignoring offense or whiffing in the draft. It's going to take years to rebuild this offense with the pieces to compete or build around.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[Satchboogie3]

He missed three passes in the second half.

Three.

He missed just two in the fourth quarter. And it should have been only one, given that the one to Parker was a dime and might have given them a shot to potentially get in field goal range. But he dropped it.

I get you're upset, but today was the first positive we've seen from him in terms of him responding to adversity for most of the season in that second half.

You saw Cunningham get crushed when the line collapsed and also had no where to go. It's beyond ridiculous, Lowe and Brown let guys blow right past them.

You're putting way too much blame on Mac today. He wasn't their biggest problem. Not even close.

And what exactly did he show you that makes you think he's a Franchise QB? its year 3. If you don't have the talent to be a top 5-10 QB, you better be smart and clutch. Jones clearly doesn't have top 5-10 talent, has terrible pocket awareness, is skittish, and hasn't shown once that he can be clutch. worst thing you can do is stick too long with a struggling QB, especially of the rest of the team is garbage

 

[ahmed]

Might?!

Bears have that title.

 

[upstater1]

You can't have it both ways. You can't excuse the Cunningham play just because it points out the issues that are the root of Mac's problems. Cunningham had literally no where to go because of the jailbreak. He couldn't escape, couldn't extend the play, etc. Because the offensive line is absolutely terrible. Both Brown and Lowe were awful, and the Raiders also got pressure inside. You can't operate that way. At all. Cunningham is crazy athletic, but even he can't overcome that.

I'm not sure what I'm having both ways. I didn't excuse the Cunnignham play because it points out issues that are the root of Mac's problems. I said the opposite of that. Were people expecting Malik to throw the ball all over the field? What I saw was a run blitz of Malik. I mean, why wouldn't you do that?

 

[Ian]

Agreed. Mac isn't the answer. Replacing him isn't the fix either.

The first problem on the offense is the line. It sucks. It generates no run blocking, instantly collappses on the pass rush even when only 4 are coming, and they are constantly getting penalties.

People need to realize, he's good enough ... for now. You need someone who can be serviceable and win some games until they can draft the next guy, and hopefully that guy can get it done for you. Or Mac gets better and reaches a higher level if maybe they improve the line and get him actual guys to throw to. If not, at least you're building an offense that the next guy might be able to thrive in.

Right now, they don't have that. And Cunningham can't be successful for those reasons. Neither can Zappe. Or Grier. I mean, Zappe won two blowout games last year and can't even stay on the field this year. I sort of can't believe all the people who hate Mac and love Zappe can't look at that and be like ... WTF ...? It's easy to say Mac sucks, but the meltdown by both of those guys has to be attributed to what's going on around them.

They didn't both suddenly completely forget how to play. It just boggles my mind that people think anybody could operate with this group. That's sort of the killer, we can't really make any evaluations of any of the QBs if they don't have time or have anyone to throw to. It's just maddening.

 

[JR52]

You say "Mac defenders" - it's more due to the fact you act as though capable guys are easy to find and readily available.

They're absolutely not.

Look, my #1 issue - and I've said this repeatedly - has nothing to do with defending Mac. It's having the patience to try and allow him to work through these issues. My reasoning isn't because I love Mac or care beyond the fact he's the current quarterback. My entire reason is simply the fact I'm trying to avoid the churning of quarterbacks that set us back years.

1) If Mac goes, it could be 3-4 years (or more) before they become competitive again. That's literally the only thing I care about as a fan of this football team.

The numbers and what transpired today, while he was responsible for one mistake in the first half, doesn't change the fact 2) he responded in the second and put up numbers that more than prove he's capable of playing.

3) But if they can't protect him, it won't matter. And that goes for whoever they put back there - as we saw.

1) Since Mac stayed, it's whatever it is plus a year (or longer, if a dwindling few on this board are hoping for). It was more obvious to some than others that Mac wasn't the answer after last season.

2) Ummm...sample size? He was god awful for 3 full games and then he has a better 2nd half where he threw the ball right to the LB which should have been a pick six.

3) I agree with the point about not having an OL but let's not pretend we've actually seen anyone other than Mac play meaningful snaps behind this line. Preseason there were no starters and Zappe was playing in 4 TD blowout games. Malik pretty much had the gadget play today.

 

[ahmed]

I feel bad for Parker. He is getting blamed for the entire loss.

 

[upstater1]

I am not defending Mac. I said he had issues too. I am saying that no QB could make this offense good. It is a dumpster fire.

So no QB could hit Thornton on an easy throw when he burns his guy for an easy TD. No QB could do that.

Except for maybe Brian Hoyer

 

[JayNM]

Tough to say. That's a stacked roster and a solid offensive line. And I do feel like Shanahan is underrated when it comes to developing quarterbacks.

Games like today remind me how devoid of talent they truly are. Watching Cunningham out there was eye-opening, because he also had zero chance to go anywhere on his sack. It's just so, so frustrating. If you can't consistently give guys time, you're dead.

And finding quality tackles is tough because you either have to sign them as FA's (and hope they want to come here) or try and draft them, which is also tough depending on who's available.

what an evasion of a answer

Yeah, I don't know. Mac is the guy? Can this be rebuilt? Is BB the guy to do it?

Let's see if I find the answer on the smoke of the next cigarette, the first 3 were useless

 

[mgteich]

Sorry, Mac had his chance and I really don’t care if there were two crucial drops by Parker and whoever. This was a bad team that played another bad team and they lost as most expected. There is no way that the offensive line and qb that’s in place will ever compete on a playoff level.

We understand that you simple don't care. Mac could have completed the pass, and won the game and he still be the worst ever, having not improved over the debacles of the last two weeks.
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OBVIOUSLY, this team cannot compete at a playoff level with this OL. There is no reason to add QB (or WR).

It is negligence for Jonathan not to approve a trade for an OT who will play for the next 2-3 years. There will no better way to spend a 2nd round draft pick in the off-season. Consider this terrible team today. Would a better than average RT made any difference?

 

[NE_Zealot]

And what exactly did he show you that makes you think he's a Franchise QB? its year 3. If you don't have the talent to be a top 5-10 QB, you better be smart and clutch. Jones clearly doesn't have top 5-10 talent, has terrible pocket awareness, is skittish, and hasn't shown once that he can be clutch. worst thing you can do is stick too long with a struggling QB, especially of the rest of the team is garbage

But sticking with a struggling QB is how we get a top 3 pick

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Looked like a cone drill. Actually no with cone drills you actually are challenged with needing to change direction

 

[Since1960]

Wasn’t able to watch the game today. Can anyone tell me how many catches my favorite receiver (One Catch Thornton) had today? Sounds like another brutal game…

 

[Ian]

I'm not sure what I'm having both ways. I didn't excuse the Cunnignham play because it points out issues that are the root of Mac's problems. I said the opposite of that. Were people expecting Malik to throw the ball all over the field? What I saw was a run blitz of Malik. I mean, why wouldn't you do that?

Yeah, but they did that all day because the O-Line couldn't stop it. Malik needed time to look at wherever he was going with it and they were there right after the snap, it's just crazy. I sort of can't believe it's this bad...I'm just dumbfounded, honestly.

 

[jdlboot14]

I have to say, apart from some rookie mistakes by Mafi and Sow, the OL did half decently against Raiders DL.
But, Lowe is pathetic. I'm shocked they didn't at least try Anderson at RT for a 2nd chance.
Zeke & Mondre did semi-okay.
But starting with Malik as your 3rd WR showed BB is so gone mentally.
Thornton would've caught that ball Parker dropped. They deactivated Boutte?
Next week better be Bourne, Pop, Thornton, Boutte
As frustrating as Mac is, he's still the best option we have. So let it play out.

 

[Patriot Missile]

That win against the Jets will haunt them !

i doubt they win another game, yet still might be picking 3 or higher!

obviously Mac had to go, they should try and trade h8m and anybody else for draft picks for the new GM and coach

I’m fine with that.

When I say “flipped quickly” I mean get back into position to be a team that can be in the mix to make a wild card spot. I don’t think that’s unrealistic. Obviously there are many holes, but there are some solid players on the roster and some that may just need a little development. If you can ink a few good veterans with your cap space and have a good draft starting off with a very high pick (or one that’s a little less high with a trade down, but then a surplus of picks), you can find yourself in a better spot quickly.

With a great draft and a responsible free agency I see them getting on track.