Shula at it again with the "Asterisk" Argument

[TommyD4207]

I guess I will be flamed just for my user name alone.

I dont know why you all are mad at everyones comments about spygate. If I were a pats fans I would be mad at my coach for making such a dumb and unneeded transgression. I understand, he like every other coach in the NFL was looking for an edge but the difference is he got caught. The fact that he has gotten caught dosnt rob you of your teams accomplishment but it does detract from it. Nomatter how much you want to pretend like it did not happen, it did and there will be people who bring it up.

Shula really did not say anything hateful he just didnt say what you all wanted to hear. You can disagree, but why be hateful towards him?

Because he's a lying, scum-sucking ******* who makes Bill Polian look like a ******* Saint when it comes to Competition Committee Bull****. Dolphins got EVERY call, and THE MOST FAVORABLE Schedule every year, and they STILL couldn't get it done.

**** the Dolphins, and **** Don Shula. If I want his opinion, I'll beat it out of him.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Folks...we need to clarify one fact here. Don Shula has made a fool of himself in his commentary on the Patriots this year. That is not opinion, that is FACTUAL. Even Dolphin fans have made comments along these lines in the Miami papers in the commentary section.

The "coup de grace" was him attending the Monday night Pats-Ravens game. To most fans, that was a sad day for Donny boy. He sat there truly a sad old man hoping upon hope that the Patriots would somehow lose the game while he sat there gloating on national television.

Since his derogatory "asterisk" comments, Belichik publicly stated he respected Don Shula. He also added that he has respected him a long time and he always will. After that, Donny was interviewed almost teary-eyed while he retracted from his original statements.

And now....HERE HE GOES AGAIN! To Shula_guy who can't seem to understand why we are cutting the man down...THIS IS THE REASON WHY!!

CAPICHE?

 

[TommyD4207]

He did not lie you just dont like his opinion and unfortunatly your not inteligent enough to formulate a substantional argument so instead you show your ignorance by using vulgar and profane insults that have no meaning. Your only intention is to hurt him because his opinion dosnt justify yours. grow up.

I didn't call him a liar because of Spygate. He did plenty of that beforehand. All my profanity is more than warranted, and quite frankly your defense of him is repulsive and disgusting to me.

 

[Deus Irae]

Folks...we need to clarify one fact here. Don Shula has made a fool of himself in his commentary on the Patriots this year. That is not opinion, that is FACTUAL. Even Dolphin fans have made comments along these lines in the Miami papers in the commentary section.

The "coup de grace" was him attending the Monday night Pats-Ravens game. To most fans, that was a sad day for Donny boy. He sat there truly a sad old man hoping upon hope that the Patriots would somehow lose the game while he sat there gloating on national television.

Since his derogatory "asterisk" comments, Belichik publicly stated he respected Don Shula. He also added that he has respected him a long time and he always will. After that, Donny was interviewed almost teary-eyed while he retracted from his original statements.

And now....HERE HE GOES AGAIN! To Shula_guy who can't seem to understand why we are cutting the man down...THIS IS THE REASON WHY!!

CAPICHE?

Don Shula wants to be the coach of the only undefeated team in NFL history. There is nothing wrong or unusual with that sentiment, as anyone who's ever held a record at any level can tell you. While records are made to be broken, they are also things which give pride, and a sense of accomplishment, to the record holder. In fact, most of the people here who are excoriating Shula have probably been trumpeting the undefeated season and all the records that the team has broken this season, and that's really no different.

 

[TommyD4207]

your not inteligent enough to formulate a substantional argument

You're. Intelligent. Substantive (or substantial, I'm not sure)

Also, Irony.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Don Shula wants to be the coach of the only undefeated team in NFL history. There is nothing wrong or unusual with that sentiment, as anyone who's ever held a record at any level can tell you. While records are made to be broken, they are also things which give pride, and a sense of accomplishment, to the record holder. In fact, most of the people here who are excoriating Shula have probably been trumpeting the undefeated season and all the records that the team has broken this season, and that's really no different.

Dues,

When are you going to UNDERSTAND that no one is saying Shula's desire to remain the coach of the only undefeated team ever is wrong. But his comments are both jealously laden and arrogant.

You're right, he has every right to be the former, but NO excuse for the latter. He "could have" played the role of the coach of the only undefeated team ever with dignity, but he has not even come close. The fact that he accepted ESPN's offer to sit in the booth and root for the Patriots to loose was the epitomy of his arrogance. No man with class would sit there publicly cheering like a school-girl for the Patriots to loose...yet that is exactly what Donnie Shula did.

Please share your comments on this.

 

[JoeSixPat]

"no impact on the outcome of the Patriots-New York Jets game."

That's what was said. I wasn't wrong, and I did read it. That line is not the same as "Goodell explicitly stated that the Patriots' infraction had no bearing on the outcome of any games. ", it's just not. Now, notice what the follow up line was: "Anyone who says otherwise is a liar." So the post essentially boiled down to the poster saying "anyone who says that Goodell didn't say what he didn't say is a liar". PonyExpress was wrong if he was talking about the press release, which was why I asked for a cite to something else for verification.

Also, for the record, Goodell has never confirmed that 18-0 has been achieved with no authorized competitive advantage, nevermind 19-0.

I'm really intrigued to learn more about your warped logic that a video tape of a portion of the first quarter of the Jets game, which was never viewed, which the Commissioner confirms had no impact or otherwise provided any competitive advantage in that game - could some how have impacted the other games of this season.

Please - expand on that for us.

Furthermore - if your contention is that Goodell didn't come out and issue a press release after every Patriots game this season that there was no illegal competitive advantage - by your logic, shouldn't every team have an asterisk, as he never confirmed that every other team in the NFL achieved their record without an additional competitive advantage?

 

[PatriotsReign]

You're. Intelligent. Substantive (or substantial, I'm not sure)

Also, Irony.

...8...9....10 HE'S OUT!! Nice knockout punch Tommy!

 

[shmessy]

Shula Guy, I can't speak for anyone else, but my prob. with Donny Boy is not that he has a negative opinion and keeps mentioning asterisks for the Pats. It's that he doesn't have the same decency that even Mercury Morris possesses when he two faces and says he'll be the first to congratulate.

That's warped.

Now he's braying that he is making sure to be at the game. Just watch how he will try to inch into the picture when the Pats win the SB. It's as if he is intent on crashing the party and spreading a disease on it.

Screw him.

He's entitled to his negative opinion of the Pats, but that should preclude him from trying to hog the platform at the trophy presentation.

Simple as that. If you can't understand that basic premise, I can't help you. I guarantee you that John Wilkes Booth did not send a condolence card to Mrs. Lincoln.

 

[Deus Irae]

Dues,

When are you going to UNDERSTAND that no one is saying Shula's desire to remain the coach of the only undefeated team ever is wrong. But his comments are both jealously laden and arrogant.

You're right, he has every right to be the former, but NO excuse for the latter. He "could have" played the role of the coach of the only undefeated team ever with dignity, but he has not even come close. The fact that he accepted ESPN's offer to sit in the booth and root for the Patriots to loose was the epitomy of his arrogance. No man with class would sit there publicly cheering like a school-girl for the Patriots to loose...yet that is exactly what Donnie Shula did.

Please share your comments on this.

How can he be jealous when he's already got what the Patriots are striving for? As for cheering for the Patriots to lose, you must be kidding. First, he's a former DOLPHINS coach, and the Patriots are a natural rival. Second, again, he doesn't want them to match the record. Of course he's going to cheer for the opposition. By the way, Patriots fans, likely including yourself, will do the same thing with the various records in the future. If Peyton is tossing up TD's on a pace to put up 55, you'll openly rooting for 0 touchdown games.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm really intrigued to learn more about your warped logic that a video tape of a portion of the first quarter of the Jets game, which was never viewed, which the Commissioner confirms had no impact or otherwise provided any competitive advantage in that game - could some how have impacted the other games of this season.

Please - expand on that for us.

Furthermore - if your contention is that Goodell didn't come out and issue a press release after every Patriots game this season that there was no illegal competitive advantage - by your logic, shouldn't every team have an asterisk, as he never confirmed that every other team in the NFL achieved their record without an additional competitive advantage?

1.) I never claimed that the filming had any impact upon any game. However, Goodell only commented about one specific game in the press release. He did not comment about others. That's just a matter of being able to comprehend the language. PonyExpress took words and claimed that they said something they did not, at least if he was referring to the press release. It's why I asked to see the words from somewhere else if they existed. Nobody has yet posted a link to any such phrasing as PonyExpress claimed was made.

2.) As to your "furthermore", words mean things. I didn't claim that an asterisk was needed. I simply noted that Goodell hasn't done what it was claimed he had.

There's no warped logic here. There's an adherence to the facts of the matter, nothing more. The wise man bases his opinion on facts, while the fool claims facts based upon his opinions. I'm not always wise, but I do my best not to be a fool. As is true of everyone on the planet, I don't always succeed. I do, however, try.

 

[TommyD4207]

OK, so what exactly are you referring to him lieing about? What has he lied about?

Lying.
Let's start with "not benefiting" from being on the Competition Committee; I suppose it's just a coincidence the Shula led Dolphins had the fewest Penalties in the NFL a record (still a record) 13 times, including 9 years in a row. Why is it that the Dolphins almost NEVER played @ Baltimore, @ New England, @ New York or @ Buffalo after the second week of November?

But he never benefited.

So are you trying to imply that my argument is not valid because of a couple of spelling typos?

I'm not implying anything. I'm DIRECTLY STATING that if you're going to come at me with the "You're So Not Intelligent, DUMMY!" argument; it's probably best to check your spelling and grammar before your post. I still don't know what substantional is. It's tough to answer the question when you make up words. At least "irregardless" I've heard before.

LOL @ IM out! Out of what? Maybe Im out of my mind for trying to have a rational dicussion in this room about this topic.

I'm. I'm. Discussion.

No, we're perfectly reasonable about rational discussion. However, coming onto a Patriots site, and suggesting that Don Shula should be held up as some sort of respected demigod is laughable. Especially when he doesn't deserve it.

 

[JoeSixPat]

1.) I never claimed that the filming had any impact upon any game. However, Goodell only commented about one specific game in the press release. He did not comment about others. That's just a matter of being able to comprehend the language. PonyExpress took words and claimed that they said something they did not, at least if he was referring to the press release. It's why I asked to see the words from somewhere else if they existed. Nobody has yet posted a link to any such phrasing as PonyExpress claimed was made.

2.) As to your "furthermore", words mean things. I didn't claim that an asterisk was needed. I simply noted that Goodell hasn't done what it was claimed he had.

There's no warped logic here. There's an adherence to the facts of the matter, nothing more. The wise man bases his opinion on facts, while the fool claims facts based upon his opinions. I'm not always wise, but I do my best not to be a fool. As is true of everyone on the planet, I don't always succeed. I do, however, try.

I see your point.

Goodell clearly understimated the number of idiots in the world unable to understand the common logic that an unviewed videotape of Game 1 could not have had an influence on Game 2, Game 3, Game 4, Game 5, Game 6, Game 7, Game 8, Game 9, Game 10, Game 11, Game 12, Game 13, Game 14, Game 15 or Game 16.

He also underestimated the number of idiots in the world who might not understand the common logic that the unviewed videotape also did not have an impact on the playoffs.

He also should have made clear that the unviewed videotape didn't affect the Bye week during the season - or the playoffs for that matter.

I hope he realizes his mistake and makes clear that the unviewed videotape will have no impact on the Super Bowl either.

It would also be helpful if he made clear that the unviewed videotape will have no impact on the 2008 season - or could adversely affect the nation's economy...

Because ultimately you are correct - Goodell did not make all of that clear in his statement following Game 1. All of us are just "assuming" that an unviewed videotape had no impact on any other games.

Then again, some people understand the concept that it's unnecessary and indeed impossible to disprove a negative.

 

[PatriotsReign]

How can he be jealous when he's already got what the Patriots are striving for? As for cheering for the Patriots to lose, you must be kidding. First, he's a former DOLPHINS coach, and the Patriots are a natural rival. Second, again, he doesn't want them to match the record. Of course he's going to cheer for the opposition. By the way, Patriots fans, likely including yourself, will do the same thing with the various records in the future. If Peyton is tossing up TD's on a pace to put up 55, you'll openly rooting for 0 touchdown games.

I guess you don't understand the difference between a fan (me) openly rooting for someone to lose or a record to remain intact can't be compared to a public figure like Shula giggling like a cheerleader on national TV. Once again, it is called dignity & humilty. Do you understand these concepts?

Let's not forget, Shula was also a jump up & down "yeah" type when he coached. But he should know, once you retire, it's time to shut your clam and act like the hall of famer he's supposed to be.

Belichik would never sit in the Monday night booth and cheer for a team to loose. That is childish. The man looked and sounded giddy. Belichik will never allow himself to look like an idiot on national television. and that is exactly what shula looked like when he sat in the booth that Monday night.

He looked so happy to have the attention, that he was giggling like a school-girl. What man would get that way? Obviously Don Shula!

You just don't understand how he could have rooted for his record with dignity (not in public) rather than allowing the entire country watch him act like a an envious man.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Shula Guy, I can't speak for anyone else, but my prob. with Donny Boy is not that he has a negative opinion and keeps mentioning asterisks for the Pats. It's that he doesn't have the same decency that even Mercury Morris possesses when he two faces and says he'll be the first to congratulate.

That's warped.

Now he's braying that he is making sure to be at the game. Just watch how he will try to inch into the picture when the Pats win the SB. It's as if he is intent on crashing the party and spreading a disease on it.

Screw him.

He's entitled to his negative opinion of the Pats, but that should preclude him from trying to hog the platform at the trophy presentation.

Simple as that. If you can't understand that basic premise, I can't help you. I guarantee you that John Wilkes Booth did not send a condolence card to Mrs. Lincoln.

Shmessy is right on in his assessment here. Shula LOVES the limelight and it shows when he's interviewed. He acts like a man who should have been given this attention all along, but never has gotten it. That is sad to watch.

Maybe Shula is envious of how so many former coaches have gotten gigs on the networks and ESPN but not him. He makes it clear why he has not be afforded the same opportunity!

 

[Deus Irae]

I see your point.

Goodell clearly understimated the number of idiots in the world unable to understand the common logic that an unviewed videotape of Game 1 could not have had an influence on Game 2, Game 3, Game 4, Game 5, Game 6, Game 7, Game 8, Game 9, Game 10, Game 11, Game 12, Game 13, Game 14, Game 15 or Game 16.

He also underestimated the number of idiots in the world who might not understand the common logic that the unviewed videotape also did not have an impact on the playoffs.

He also should have made clear that the unviewed videotape didn't affect the Bye week during the season - or the playoffs for that matter.

I hope he realizes his mistake and makes clear that the unviewed videotape will have no impact on the Super Bowl either.

It would also be helpful if he made clear that the unviewed videotape will have no impact on the 2008 season - or could adversely affect the nation's economy...

Because ultimately you are correct - Goodell did not make all of that clear in his statement following Game 1. All of us are just "assuming" that an unviewed videotape had no impact on any other games.

Then again, some people understand the concept that it's unnecessary and indeed impossible to disprove a negative.

Instead of using the word 'idiot' while making yourself look like one, perhaps you could simply admit that there is a disconnect between the claims made by PonyExpress and the actual statements made by Goodell. After all, the words typed by PonyExpress

Goodell explicitly stated

mean something far different from what you're trying to belittle me about now.

 

[Deus Irae]

Belichik would never sit in the Monday night booth and cheer for a team to loose. That is childish. The man looked and sounded giddy. Belichik will never allow himself to look like an idiot on national television. and that is exactly what shula looked like when he sat in the booth that Monday night.

He looked so happy to have the attention, that he was giggling like a school-girl. What man would get that way? Obviously Don Shula!

You just don't understand how he could have rooted for his record with dignity (not in public) rather than allowing the entire country watch him act like a an envious man.

No, I understand that not everyone has to bow at the Patriots' altar. I don't agree with Shula's statements and I don't agree with his actions. However, those statements and actions aren't any reason to be insulting the man's mental acumen, or drawing false comparisons to the 1972 Dolphins team, no matter how many people on an internet message board claim otherwise. You are acting as if he's the only one who's hoped for a Patriots loss, when it's clearly not not the case. Hell, there were people on this site, with plenty of 'fan credentials', who wanted the team to lose a game just to take the pressure off.

And, again, there's no envy in the man about something he has and nobody else does. He doesn't want to share the record. That's not envy.

 

[PatriotsReign]

No, I understand that not everyone has to bow at the Patriots' altar. I don't agree with Shula's statements and I don't agree with his actions. However, those statements and actions aren't any reason to be insulting the man's mental acumen, or drawing false comparisons to the 1972 Dolphins team, no matter how many people on an internet message board claim otherwise. You are acting as if he's the only one who's hoped for a Patriots loss, when it's clearly not not the case. Hell, there were people on this site, with plenty of 'fan credentials', who wanted the team to lose a game just to take the pressure off.

And, again, there's no envy in the man about something he has and nobody else does. He doesn't want to share the record. That's not envy.

Belichik has far more than Shula will ever have and you know this Dues. BB's already seen as possibly the greatest coach ever and Shula's name doesn't even make the radar. So Belichik already has more that Shula or anyone else has...the ultimate RESPECT. The undefeated season is the ONLY think Shula has that no one else has. Once he loses that...he'll be devasted. And rightly so!

If you don't think Shula is envious, you're blind. Maybe it's the attention the Pats get that his team never did, I don't know, but the envy he shows is palpable. Remember, Shula never achieved what Belichik has in a much longer career. Belichik is already regarded in a much higher level than Shula.

And, Shula was also the coach of a rule breaking team. And it IS the same thing as spygate. Rule breaking is rule breaking and he's just as guilty as the Patriots, 49ers and Bronco's. How could it be viewed any differently Dues?

 

[Deus Irae]

If you don't think Shula is envious, you're blind. Maybe it's the attention the Pats get that his team never did, I don't know, but the envy he shows is palpable. Remember, Shula never achieved what Belichik has in a much longer career. Belichik is already regarded in a much higher level than Shula.

And, Shula was also the coach of a rule breaking team. And it IS the same thing as spygate. Rule breaking is rule breaking and he's just as guilty as the Patriots, 49ers and Bronco's. How could it be viewed any differently Dues?

1.) You've now taken this from undefeated season to just plain silly. Almost every season, there is a team that starts out 7-0, 8-0, etc... and the media annually starts calling up the '72 squad for comments. There's been no reason for envy about the record or the attention. You keep using the wrong word. In the case of an undefeated season, the Dolphins can't envy others, by definition. Now, if you were to claim that Shula is feeling resentful, I'd agree that such a characterization seems accurate. However, I'd note that he's by no means the first to do so, and will certainly not be the last. He wants to maintain the uniqueness. So did Hank Aaron, just to name another.

2.) Shula didn't break the rule, just as Belichick didn't break it when he came from New York and Parcells didn't break it when he went from New England to New York. The tampering rule that is cited is broken by the team, not the coach. Furthermore, the rule regarding Shula wasn't broken in the same year that the Dolphins went undefeated. Lastly, I don't buy that "rule breaking is rule breaking" crap, and neither does any sports league, or this country, save in the generic sense. It's why some malfeasances are more heavily penalized than others.

 

[Patriotic]

Shmessy is right on in his assessment here. Shula LOVES the limelight and it shows when he's interviewed. He acts like a man who should have been given this attention all along, but never has gotten it. That is sad to watch.

Dead right. I saw a clip of the '72 Dolphins running onto the field and Shula was running in front of them. Can you imagine that today? And it wasn't the norm for back then either.

Shula is showing no class. And for those that get that, the ones who don't never will.

Rather than being remembered as a coach of an incredible team, this generation of fans is seeing him as an attention seeking sore loser.