Welcoming back the "Old" New England Patriots

[FCB02062]

The razzle dazzle, greatest show on turf, we are the new Colts NE Patriots are all done. Finished.

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!! :singing:

The 2013 - 2014 version of the NE Patriots will look like the dynastic NE Patriots from the early 2000's.

Ball control, clock control offense. Play action. Run the ball.

Defense that will turn the ball over, defense that will consciously take ownership of this team's success. In recent years the D has played 2nd fiddle and has in many ways been along for the ride because of the record setting offense.

That is no longer the case.

The D will be an equal partner with the O on this team and I believe they will embrace that as they haven't (had to) in a long time.

You can bet Bill Belichick and Tom Brady are not happy with this off-season of tumult but both are completely energized and excited by the challenge of it.

Wish the season were starting tomorrow.

I'm very excited about this team this year.

Gonna be watching some old fashioned New England Patriot football.

Can't wait.

When was the last time a "running, play action offense" won the super bowl without a dominant or close to dominant defense???? You must be young because to me, and many others, "old fashioned Patriots football" is an abysmal few years, followed by mediocrity and one great playoff run, followed by more terrible football....

 

[Shockt327]

Was that clock domination a function of forcing teams to throw because of the record number of points the Patriots put on the scoreboard or was it because they had a great running game?

It wasn't spectacular, but it was effective, especially before Morris went down with that freak injury in Dallas.

Wasn't spectacular?

This is nonsense. Name me one Patriots team to dominate Time of Posession as well as the 2007 Pats? Name one. You can't. They dominated that stat. Way better than 01, 03 or 04.

 

[BadMoFo]

It's the curse of the perfect regular season.

 

[mgteich]

And in 2007, we were #1 in scoring and #5 in yards. All three teams had top defenses.

2003 Patriots defense was #1 in scoring and #7 in yards, allowing 238 points

2004 Patriots defense was #2 in scoring and #9 in yards, allowing 260 points


You can argue about "dominant", but those are excellent defensive numbers.

 

[Nunchucks]

I remember 2007 as the year that the Patriots put up ridiculous points and opponents abandoning the run in the first quarter. This let the Patriots rush the passer on every down, which in turn led to turnovers and three and outs, which meant the Patriots had the football way more than their opponents.

That season's stats were more a function of the Patriots offense putting pressure on the opponents offense, which helped the Patriots defense.

When the Patriots played teams like the Eagles and Ravens, both with decent defenses that also committed to running the ball, they struggled mightily.

If the Patriots offense was more balanced in 2007, we would have seen more points scored or a higher ToP in the Superbowl.

Randy Moss and Wes Welker was a puzzle that only a pass rush along with 2 deep safeties could solve.

 

[Shockt327]

I remember 2007 as the year that the Patriots put up ridiculous points and opponents abandoning the run in the first quarter. This let the Patriots rush the passer on every down, which in turn led to turnovers and three and outs, which meant the Patriots had the football way more than their opponents.

That season's stats were more a function of the Patriots offense putting pressure on the opponents offense, which helped the Patriots defense.

When the Patriots played teams like the Eagles and Ravens, both with decent defenses that also committed to running the ball, they struggled mightily.

If the Patriots offense was more balanced in 2007, we would have seen more points scored or a higher ToP in the Superbowl.

Randy Moss and Wes Welker was a puzzle that only a pass rush along with 2 deep safeties could solve.

This is just you doing mental-jumping jacks, going up-and-down, and all over the place....

The 07 Pats didn't genuinely control the ball? Utter crap.

Let's take out the D, and simply look at total yards per drive. The 07 Patriots utterly dominated with 41.63 yards per drive on 155 drives. You can't keep the clock moving without moving the chains. The 07 Pats did this.

In 04? 33.96 (6th) on 169 drives
In 03? 25.69 (20th) on 191 drives
In 01? 28.50 (9th) on 178 drives

Oh, and that why the 07 Pats only had 151 drives. Once they got the ball, they simply didn't give it up...ever. Possessions simply were not going back-and-forth between like they normally would. Hardly any 3-and-outs. They held on to that ball and moved the chains. *That* is true possession.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2007 DRIVE STATS

 

[lurker1965]

The razzle dazzle, greatest show on turf, we are the new Colts NE Patriots are all done. Finished.

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!! :singing:

The 2013 - 2014 version of the NE Patriots will look like the dynastic NE Patriots from the early 2000's.

Ball control, clock control offense. Play action. Run the ball.

Defense that will turn the ball over, defense that will consciously take ownership of this team's success. In recent years the D has played 2nd fiddle and has in many ways been along for the ride because of the record setting offense.

That is no longer the case.

The D will be an equal partner with the O on this team and I believe they will embrace that as they haven't (had to) in a long time.

You can bet Bill Belichick and Tom Brady are not happy with this off-season of tumult but both are completely energized and excited by the challenge of it.

Wish the season were starting tomorrow.

I'm very excited about this team this year.

Gonna be watching some old fashioned New England Patriot football.

Can't wait.

While I hope you are right about the Defense, I'm a pessimist.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

We have like 3 or 4 threads already on what the offense will look like and whether we should panic or not.

Do we need more?

i guess we do...

 

[lurker1965]

If the rules were the same as back in 2001-2005, I'd agree with you.

But I suspect that any return to the "old days" will be short-lived, and the Patriots will morph back to the 2010-2012 offense by season's end.

OK, just my opinion and I'm not Belichick, but...

Defenses have evolved to be small and speedy for the new pass happy rules. To me that begs for a run up the middle game. Think the Vikings, but without Peterson and with a very creditable passing game.

Another reason that they MIGHT do the running thing is a lack of receivers. If life takes away your lemons, stop making lemonade.

Of course then there is the defense ...
(I am not Belichick, but I MAY be Josh McDaniels - did I spell his name right?)

 

[randomk1]

Oh please...we heard this back in 2010 when the double TE offense came into action and Moss was shipped out of town.

This is starting to look like 2006

 

[Joker]

c'mon guys...chins up...after all, we have the secret WEAPONBOW!!

if ever Cho Sin Won wanted to open a smash hit dim sum palace, THIS is the year...and the team....I can see it all now on every sports page of every newspaper...

TEBOW...Changing The Culture Of The New England Patriots

if Tebow somehow manages to offset this Hernandez fiasco and gets the media focus back on HIM I will seriously consider giving away all my worldly possessions and walk the back roads of N.E. in sackcloth and sandals.

 

[VJCPatriot]

More like welcome back to the 2006 pats. This team is nowhere near as stacked defensively as the dynasty years.

Hard to be optimistic unless gronk makes a full recovery and one of the rookie wideouts step up. Hopefully amendola can also stay healthy for a full season for the first time like ever.

 

[Nunchucks]

This is just you doing mental-jumping jacks, going up-and-down, and all over the place....

The 07 Pats didn't genuinely control the ball? Utter crap.

Let's take out the D, and simply look at total yards per drive. The 07 Patriots utterly dominated with 41.63 yards per drive on 155 drives. You can't keep the clock moving without moving the chains. The 07 Pats did this.

In 04? 33.96 (6th) on 169 drives
In 03? 25.69 (20th) on 191 drives
In 01? 28.50 (9th) on 178 drives

Oh, and that why the 07 Pats only had 151 drives. Once they got the ball, they simply didn't give it up...ever. Possessions simply were not going back-and-forth between like they normally would. Hardly any 3-and-outs. They held on to that ball and moved the chains. *That* is true possession.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2007 DRIVE STATS

Meh, the Patriots dominated in the beginning, beating up on the weaksauce Redskins, Bills, Jets, and Phins. Pretty sure the Cowboys were all kinds of bad. When they played good teams, it was not so easy to dominate.

Anyhow, the point is that old school football with a commitment to the run and the use of big bodies to smash the lighter defenses around will be a good thing for the Patriots offense and the Patriots defense.

Hernandez is a loss, no doubt about that, but the Patriots will move on, they always do.

Oh and the 2007 defense was overrated, they benefited greatly from the record breaking offense.

I think it is way too early to malign the 2013 version of the Patriots defense, so far, I think this defense has a lot of things to like...of course it must be proven on the field, but I like what I see.

 

[satz]

Plan

A) Take the ball off Brady hand and give to Ridley/Vareen
B) Try to Run the Ball when other team is slinging it around and Scoring.
c) Look at the amazing running game Viking have, we have to come to close to that kind of Running game and Top 5 defence
D) In the playoff when we meet the Peyton manning, we will change the game by Putting Ridley/Vareen vs Peyton. we can even remove brady and put tebow to give a true running threat.

=== Championship

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Re: Welcoming back the "Old" New England Patriots

Plan

A) Take the ball off Brady hand and give to Ridley/Vareen
B) Try to Run the Ball when other team is slinging it around and Scoring.
c) Look at the amazing running game Viking have, we have to come to close to that kind of Running game and Top 5 defence
D) In the playoff when we meet the Peyton manning, we will change the game by Putting Ridley/Vareen vs Peyton. we can even remove brady and put tebow to give a true running threat.

=== Championship

Do not be so ridiculous. If the vikings had a real qb they would have made it past the first round of the playoffs. A commitment to the run does not take the ball out of brady's hands. It just means that yeams will have to be prepared to stop it, which creates space in the passing game.

As for other teams scoring at will and the pats not able to match...whatever dude. Stop pouting. .

 

[Shockt327]

Meh, the Patriots dominated in the beginning, beating up on the weaksauce Redskins, Bills, Jets, and Phins. Pretty sure the Cowboys were all kinds of bad. When they played good teams, it was not so easy to dominate.

Anyhow, the point is that old school football with a commitment to the run and the use of big bodies to smash the lighter defenses around will be a good thing for the Patriots offense and the Patriots defense.

Hernandez is a loss, no doubt about that, but the Patriots will move on, they always do.

Oh and the 2007 defense was overrated, they benefited greatly from the record breaking offense.

I think it is way too early to malign the 2013 version of the Patriots defense, so far, I think this defense has a lot of things to like...of course it must be proven on the field, but I like what I see.

Ugh, now you're taking out of both sides of your mouth....

1) You claim the 07 Pats defense benefited from the offense (which then benefitted the O, as well)? Duh! That's the entire appeal of clock domination; the other team cannot score as long as you have the ball and are putting up points in the process. The 07 Pats were the best clock dominating team in Pats history. You are going around in mental-circles trying to downplay this or dismiss it. You can't.

2) You are trying to thumb your nose at the difficulty 07 Pats schedule....yet they had the 3rd hardest in the NFL that year.

3) You hypocritically act as though the the teams NE dominated weren't good....but then you hold up the games against Philly and Balt as though it proves they couldn't compete against tough teams. Newsflash: You cannot dominate every NFL game; 'merely' winning is virtually impossible too, let alone dominate. The 07 Pats? They dominated more than half their games and went 16-0. They dominated games against good teams like SD, Dallas, and PIT; teams with good records; good defenses, playoff teams, too. Oh, but what about Philly and Balt? The two allegedly "tough" teams? Well, they had bad records; no playoffs. So your point is going back-and-forth without focus. In reality? This is the NFL and every week there is simply too much variation to hang your hat on much let alone constant domination; yet the 07 Pats went 16-0 (against the 3rd hardest schedule, too).

3a) You are acting as though wins that weren't utter blowouts aren't impressive....as if you've ever seen a team dominate their entire schedule as much as the 07 Pats. Get real. If the 07 Pats aren't up to your standards then you cannot name one single team that is. This is the NFL; no team can dominate every single game. So, don't try to thumb your nose over NE's close wins in 07, as though it were not an accomplishment. It was.

4) ....and no. A team dominating in wins has little to do with "establishing the run." Good running games are nice, but they don't even remotely correlate to wins as much as passing. It's not close. Record breaking passing attacks result in a much better record than record breaking rushing. So, again, your point is moot.

 

[Nunchucks]

Poor record does not mean poor defense. Each game plays out with its own strategies. Teams played the patriots offense differently based on their scheme and personnel. For example, Steelers were especially susceptible to the pass when the Patriots spread them out.

Heck, the first 2-4 games, teams did not respect Moss at all, they thought he couldn't run. Then teams had to figure out game plans to stop Moss and Welker, it takes a while...but, it did begin to happen.

Of course it is hard to win in the NFL, that is why it is important to be able to run the ball in critical situations.

And I am not impressed with blowouts. Sorry, just am not. You can see teams just give up in the first quarter after Moss toasts them for a couple TDs. That was just par for the course in the first half of the season. The pressure to keep up with the Patriots offense was intense and teams buckled under that pressure more often than not, especially during those first games.

 

[VrabelJr]

When is everyone going to step out of denial and realize the "Indianapolis Patriots" is how you win the modern NFL? Bill Poilan changed the game and BB went and adapted (on offense). Our offense losing key players don't put us back to our early 2000s days. It puts us behind in the modern NFL. The only thing that will get us back to early 2000s form will be an elite defense.

 

[Shockt327]

Poor record does not mean poor defense. Each game plays out with its own strategies. Teams played the patriots offense differently based on their scheme and personnel. For example, Steelers were especially susceptible to the pass when the Patriots spread them out.

Meh, the Patriots dominated in the beginning, beating up on the weaksauce Redskins, Bills, Jets, and Phins. Pretty sure the Cowboys were all kinds of bad. When they played good teams, it was not so easy to dominate.


You just said they were good teams. Oh, so now it's simply good defense? This is you doing an about face.

Also, the Steelers were ranked 2/1 in points/yards on D. They were utterly elite.

Heck, the first 2-4 games, teams did not respect Moss at all, they thought he couldn't run. Then teams had to figure out game plans to stop Moss and Welker, it takes a while...but, it did begin to happen.

What?!? This is just you blowing smoke in some desperate attempt to downplay a dominant performance. You claim that it took 4 weeks for teams to notice that Moss couldn't run? Utter crap. That speculation was never fully belived in the first place. On top of this, it was blatantly obvious after wk 1 that Moss was dominant. Stop blowing stuff way out of proportion in some desperate attempt to thumb your nose at an amazing season.

Oh, Moss had 11 of his 23 TDs in the second half of the year. The breakdown is almost perfectly 5/50. So, there goes your little theory. What's your excuse there? Stop making stuff up.

Of course it is hard to win in the NFL, that is why it is important to be able to run the ball in critical situations.

Then explain why they went 16-0 without a rush? Explain why last year's Vikings weren't even utterly close? You are just grasping at staws and jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

And I am not impressed with blowouts. Sorry, just am not. You can see teams just give up in the first quarter after Moss toasts them for a couple TDs. That was just par for the course in the first half of the season. The pressure to keep up with the Patriots offense was intense and teams buckled under that pressure more often than not, especially during those first games.

LOL. You aren't impressed with blow-outs, you claim?

Hey genius, your entire argument stems from holding it against the Pats for not blowing out the Eagles and Ravens! Because it wasn't a blow out, you claim that NE's win wasn't as good. And this, you claim is due to the importance of the opposing running game; that if the Pats could've run the ball, the game wouldn't have been close. LOL!

Jeez, you can't even keep track of your own argument.

 

[Shockt327]

When the Patriots played teams like the Eagles and Ravens, both with decent defenses that also committed to running the ball, they struggled mightily.

Heh. The Eagles only ran for 55 yards against NE in that 07 game.

There goes that claim....

EDIT:

-Buffalo ran for 110 yards in a wk 3 blowout: 38-7
-MIA ran for 179 yards in a wk 7 blowout: 49-28
-Pittsburgh ran for 181 yards in a wk 14 blowout: 34-14

Yeah, your theory just blew up, dude.