Why we don't value the X reciever position?

[Salsalife]

Stanley Morgan, Irvin Fryar, Deion Branch, and the best Alpha X reciever ever to play for the Patriots Randy Moss. I am so sick of the frauds like Nekeal Harry's,Tyquan Thortons' and Devonte Parkers of the world. It would be so cool to have a 100 catch Alpha X receiver to begin the rebuilding process and he's right in front of us. Gronk was a gamechanger pick. I think MHJ is a gamechanger pick also no matter who's behind center. No team is gonna give up their real Alpha receiver, ever. I'm sure Mayo and the organization is picking a qb with the 3rd pick. Wanted to leave my note in history.

 

[signbabybrady]

X gonna give it to ya

 

[bakes781]

Pretty simple answer is we can't throw it deep down field if we can't give the QB time to throw it deep.

So you "game manage" by checking it down to your slot/z guys.

 

[Ivan]

Stanley Morgan, Irvin Fryar, Deion Branch, and the best Alpha X reciever ever to play for the Patriots Randy Moss. I am so sick of the frauds like Nekeal Harry's,Tyquan Thortons' and Devonte Parkers of the world. It would be so cool to have a 100 catch Alpha X receiver to begin the rebuilding process and he's right in front of us. Gronk was a gamechanger pick. I think MHJ is a gamechanger pick also no matter who's behind center. No team is gonna give up their real Alpha receiver, ever. I'm sure Mayo and the organization is picking a qb with the 3rd pick. Wanted to leave my note in history.

Thanks. We appreciate it. Have a great time in the afterlife.

 

[ahmed]

Brady's fault.

 

[DaBruinz]

The new regime was willing to drop $22/yr on Ridley. That tells me that they value the "X-receiver" in AVPs offense.

Brady being able to spread the ball to Brown, Patten, and Faulk in 2001 with a smattering of the others, then Brown, Patten, Branch, Givens, Graham, Faulk, Fauria in 2003 and then Brown, Patten, Branch, Givens, Pass, and Graham in 2004 was HUGE.


One thing I noticed about 2003 & 2004. No receiver had more than 57 receptions in those years.


If a team wants to break KC's stranglehold, they need to have an offense like 2003 and 2004. Where the QB had a good run game but has 4-5 receivers (WR/TE/RB) that he can go to reliably. When they had Brown, Patten Branch and Faulk out there, Brady had fun because he know ONE of them would get open because of the mismatches. Brady had the uncanny ability to find that guy when he needed to and played within his means.

As much as I want a Ridley, MHJ, Odunze, or a Nabors, I'd much rather have a LT that is going to give the QB 3-4 seconds to get the ball off. So that he can hit someone on a deeper route. That LT is also going to open up holes for Stevenson, Harris and Gibson to really put pressure on opposing defenses. Which will also help with the passing game.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Stanley Morgan, Irvin Fryar, Deion Branch, and the best Alpha X reciever ever to play for the Patriots Randy Moss. I am so sick of the frauds like Nekeal Harry's,Tyquan Thortons' and Devonte Parkers of the world. It would be so cool to have a 100 catch Alpha X receiver to begin the rebuilding process and he's right in front of us. Gronk was a gamechanger pick. I think MHJ is a gamechanger pick also no matter who's behind center. No team is gonna give up their real Alpha receiver, ever. I'm sure Mayo and the organization is picking a qb with the 3rd pick. Wanted to leave my note in history.

Teams trade stud Wr’s all the time.

Randy Moss, AJ Brown, Tyreek Hill, Stefan Diggs, Davante Adams and Amari Cooper all say Hi.

The position they don’t trade is stud healthy QB’s- with the exception of Matthew Stafford- who has rarely been seen as a top 3 QB in the league.

 

[Salsalife]

The new regime was willing to drop $22/yr on Ridley. That tells me that they value the "X-receiver" in AVPs offense.

Brady being able to spread the ball to Brown, Patten, and Faulk in 2001 with a smattering of the others, then Brown, Patten, Branch, Givens, Graham, Faulk, Fauria in 2003 and then Brown, Patten, Branch, Givens, Pass, and Graham in 2004 was HUGE.


One thing I noticed about 2003 & 2004. No receiver had more than 57 receptions in those years.


If a team wants to break KC's stranglehold, they need to have an offense like 2003 and 2004. Where the QB had a good run game but has 4-5 receivers (WR/TE/RB) that he can go to reliably. When they had Brown, Patten Branch and Faulk out there, Brady had fun because he know ONE of them would get open because of the mismatches. Brady had the uncanny ability to find that guy when he needed to and played within his means.

As much as I want a Ridley, MHJ, Odunze, or a Nabors, I'd much rather have a LT that is going to give the QB 3-4 seconds to get the ball off. So that he can hit someone on a deeper route. That LT is also going to open up holes for Stevenson, Harris and Gibson to really put pressure on opposing defenses. Which will also help with the passing game.

Brady had under 200 yards passing in his first Superbowl win. Different era i.m.o.Does that formula still work? Which teams has that kind of mindset now? League rules have changed, that's what happened. 7 on 7 game feeling. Need high quality talent in 2 or 3 positions on offense.

 

[Wozzy]

The previous offensive system (Ernhardt-Perkins) was focused on the run game and controlling the middle of the field, it's why slot WR'S and TE's featured so prominently in the dynasty offenses. I have a hard time criticizing unparalleled success though, especially because my fantasy team didn't feature a lot of Patriot WR's.

We don't know what we have now, the new regime hasn't made a single draft pick and we haven't seen them run an offensive system... but the assumption is some version of the west coast offense.

We can't judge the new regime based on the previous one, time for a fresh start. Let's see what they can do.

 

[mgteich]

The previous offensive system (Ernhardt-Perkins) was focused on the run game and controlling the middle of the field, it's why slot WR'S and TE's featured so prominently in the dynasty offenses. I have a hard time criticizing unparalleled success though, especially not because my fantasy team didn't feature a lot of Patriot WR's.

We don't know what we have now, the new regime hasn't made a single draft pick and we haven't seen them run an offensive system... but the assumption is some version of the west coast offense.

We can't judge the new regime based on the previous one, time for a fresh start. Let's see what they can do.

Our schemes will depend on the QB that we draft in the first round. We will build the team and system around his strengths and weaknesses.

The "system" and schemes are likely to very different depending on which QB we choose.

 

[Wozzy]

Our schemes will depend on the QB that we draft in the first round. We will build the team and system around his strengths and weaknesses.

The "system" and schemes are likely to very different depending on which QB we choose.

I think they’ll draft a QB for their system, not the other way round.

BB wasn’t about to take Lamar Jackson and completely alter his system for him, I don’t believe this regime will either. I’m sure there’s a vision… or at least I hope so.

 

[patfanken]

Stanley Morgan, Irvin Fryar, Deion Branch, and the best Alpha X reciever ever to play for the Patriots Randy Moss. I am so sick of the frauds like Nekeal Harry's,Tyquan Thortons' and Devonte Parkers of the world. It would be so cool to have a 100 catch Alpha X receiver to begin the rebuilding process and he's right in front of us. Gronk was a gamechanger pick. I think MHJ is a gamechanger pick also no matter who's behind center. No team is gonna give up their real Alpha receiver, ever. I'm sure Mayo and the organization is picking a qb with the 3rd pick. Wanted to leave my note in history.

Deon Branch was NEVER an "alpha WR" that the other 2 guys you mentioned. He never had even one 1000 yd season and only came close one year (2005). Great WR's don't individually make great offenses. Didn't 20 years of the Pats with Brady or even the KC experience this year, teach us that.. Good defenses, and ST's, consistent and balanced offenses, and a championship QB create superbowls. You know like a whole TEAM, like the game was meant to be.

AND for the thousand's time, "alpha WR's" are great to have. It's not that I wouldn't want to have one or two, but you don't NEED one to be a championship team. Think about all the alpha WR's who never won a championship.

 

[Wozzy]

Deon Branch was NEVER an "alpha WR" that the other 2 guys you mentioned. He never had even one 1000 yd season and only came close one year (2005). Great WR's don't individually make great offenses. Didn't 20 years of the Pats with Brady or even the KC experience this year. Good defenses, and ST's, consistent and balanced offenses, and a championship QB create superbowls. You know like a whole TEAM, like the game was meant to be.

AND for the thousand's time, "alpha WR's" are great to have. It's not that I wouldn't want to have one or two, but you don't NEED one to be a championship team. Think about all the alpha WR's who never won a championship.

Agree with this, I’d just say with Branch he dealt with knee injuries (Seattle turf) that ended his career prematurely.

Also these words like “alpha,” “elite,” or “#1 WR” get thrown around so often they lose all meaning or get skewed into something irrational.

Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Edelman…. these guys were not X Receivers or considered “elite,” but what they were was elite in the slot.

They had elite quickness and mobility, they were extraordinarily tough covers in short space. In the Super Bowl the Rams tried to use Jalen Ramsey to stop Edelman, he couldn’t… isn’t that elite?

There’s a tool for every job, BB didn’t use Gilmore to cover Tyreek… he used smaller quicker Jon Jones.

Demario Douglas, Osborne… these guys don’t have to catch 1400 yards to be dangerous or move the chains.

 

[slifersd]

During the Belichick years, it was a stylistic thing. Brady was a master at the short and intermediate game, and that was how we attacked mostly, so the value of a big time X wasn't quite as high. Nowadays, we don't have a QB so there is really no point getting a stout X when your QB can't throw and the oline can't protect anyway

 

[Real fan 02]

X gonna give it to ya

Here we go again... was one of my favorites . If I may add...

 

[TheRainMaker]

My guess is that most of the talented WR's are personalities and Bill doesn't like dealing with those types of personalities. Remember he was in New York with Keyshawn Johnson wanted them to "throw him the damn ball". Moss and AB were an aberration based on the situation. It's a new regime and we're going to see them take swings at more WR's.

It takes a special QB like Brady and now Mahomes that can live without an elite X WR.

 

[FCB02062]

Who's "We"? I'm a fan, and I definitely value said position, as do most of the non IBWT Toadies on this forum. Now what the New England Patriots value is another question. My theory is it's all about $ and PR. Kraft is a cheap **** and he is wont to have a big time superstar 1,800 12 TD guy on his team because said player would be a 2d contract nightmare for a draft pick and a PR nightmare because Krafty Bob knows damn right well he's not shelling out the big bucks for a 26 year Old top of the market WR.
As for free agents, Krafty will only take a flyer on "damaged" goods or distressed assets at the position - Moss, Gordon, A Brown....
I'm convinced the cost of a potential second contract is a massive consideration for old Krafty Bob. Hence preponderance of lower tier salary positions drafted in the first round in Krafty Bob's ownership, and many of these guys (dline specifically) who could be high salary guys never generate the necessary stats due to Belichicks defensive scheme and heavy line rotations.

 

[TommyD4207]

The new regime was willing to drop $22/yr on Ridley.

You buy that. Ok.

 

[Steve102]

and the answer is...

 

[Real fan 02]

You buy that. Ok.

I buy it. The QB issue Is what is, and was detering players.. KJ Osborne even said himself the QB situation made him reluctant to sign until he met with Mayo and the pot was sweetened...