Brady vs. Belichick: The Final Poll

[amfootball]

The Bucs "success" post Brady is based on already having a stacked roster and being able to pay Baker Mayfield pennies. The median age of the Patriots in 2019 was near the oldest in the NFL and they had 11-12 major starters or contributors they needed to re-sign or replace in 2020, including the QB position, you know... the most expensive position in football.

And how did the Buc's season end? Oh yeah... with a whimper. Great example of nothing at all.

No. The Bucs success was based on drafting really well for years and also paying the right players their second contracts something that was foreign to Bill.

In terms of the Pats, you are correct, the roster had been mismanaged for years under Bill which is why the team literally fell apart as soon as the GOAT left ultimately leading to Bill being fired and currently unemployed.

 

[HSanders]

This is a very interesting discussion among former NFL players (some HOFers) about who was more important Tom or Bill. These guys make a lot of good points. Interesting to listen to Favre's take on the Belichick coaching style (he didn't mind it) which he experienced under Mangini. That **** don't work no more.

nice find and worth the listen.

 

[venecol]

nice find and worth the listen.

And it was a wide variety of ex-players, all HOFers.

Marshall Faulk, RB (Colts/Rams)
Warren Sapp, DT (Bucs/Raiders)
Brett Favre, QB (Packers/Jets/Vikings)
Brian Urlacher, LB (Bears)

They all agree, it was Brady. They still give Bill the kudos he deserves but the impact Tom made on the field, but more importantly off the field (leadership, buy-in, allowing Bill to be Bill, etc.) was the key for all his teams to be winners (incl. Bucs).

 

[HSanders]

And it was a wide variety of ex-players, all HOFers.

Marshall Faulk, RB (Colts/Rams)
Warren Sapp, DT (Bucs/Raiders)
Brett Favre, QB (Packers/Jets/Vikings)
Brian Urlacher, LB (Bears)

They all agree, it was Brady. They still give Bill the kudos he deserves but the impact Tom made on the field, but more importantly off the field (leadership, buy-in, allowing Bill to be Bill, etc.) was the key for all his teams to be winners (incl. Bucs).

i'm not sure they all felt tb was more impt. i'd say that a couple thought more like i do that there can't be that level of success in n.e. without both of them.
there's no question that getting tb's buy in was very critical. the other thing that might have become problematic for tb in staying is that there were few other leaders there by 2019 (slater,mc courty, andrews, who else?) to help him get that buy in within the lr. his going to tampa allowed him to establish it on his terms which i think was huge in helping tampa succeed. that and tb getting arians fired...

 

[sb1]

And it was a wide variety of ex-players, all HOFers.

Marshall Faulk, RB (Colts/Rams)
Warren Sapp, DT (Bucs/Raiders)
Brett Favre, QB (Packers/Jets/Vikings)
Brian Urlacher, LB (Bears)

They all agree, it was Brady. They still give Bill the kudos he deserves but the impact Tom made on the field, but more importantly off the field (leadership, buy-in, allowing Bill to be Bill, etc.) was the key for all his teams to be winners (incl. Bucs).

No way Gronk and AB are Bucs if Brady is not there. Fournette too. All played big roles in that Super Bowl run.

That's something that doesn't get measured by stats.

 

[Boomer B]

Garbage. By who... Wickersham?

Brady signed a new extension every year extending his stay in NE for another year. Players can negotiate, they can hold out if they don't like their contract, Tom had all the leverage, he was the best QB in the NFL. This notion that he was a slave is straight nonsense.

Moreover, sht changes... Giselle was done with the NFL and wanted a tropical climate. She didn't need the money or hassle.

********, it’s been reported by many that Brady asked for the same 2 year deal the Saints gave Brees but couldn’t get it.

Brady tried for years to get multiple years from Belichick and he wouldn’t give it to him. 1 year with incentives for the best ever? The only reason Brady made them put the FA into the contract is because he couldn’t get 2 years. Biggest mistake of Belichick’s career. He’d still be the Pats coach and would be able to catch Shula if he didn’t **** it up so bad.

 

[venecol]

Biggest mistake of Belichick’s career. He’d still be the Pats coach and would be able to catch Shula if he didn’t **** it up so bad.

**** around and find out.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I mean look at the way the Lakers treated Kobe at the end with his busted ankle

As much fans loved Kobe out here in LA, it was very controversial signing him to the deal he got at the end of his career. According to Stephen A. Smith, the Lakers did it for two reasons. One, it was a thank you for everything Kobe had done for the Franchise. And two, to keep asses in the seats.

And according to Stephen A. Smith, he has close sources to Tom that told him had Bill wanted him back, he would've come back. It wasn't about money. Bill never told him he wanted Tom back so he went to Tampa. He should've retired with the Patriots, but they did him a favor and it was time to go.

 

[venecol]

 

[Boomer B]

Tom Sr pretty much sums it up. What a lot of us have said for years. It wasn’t Bill’s coaching, there’s no one better in his era. It’s the other ****. His ego, his relationship skills, obviously his drafting, ..

 

[Sect140]

The winner between Brady and Bellichik is a draw.

Brady has said multiple times that Bill made him the player he was and Bill has said multiple times that Brady made him a better coach. It was the perfect match for both of them and all of us. Not sure why it’s so difficult for some fans to understand.

 

[lancerman]

Tom Sr pretty much sums it up. What a lot of us have said for years. It wasn’t Bill’s coaching, there’s no one better in his era. It’s the other ****. His ego, his relationship skills, obviously his drafting, ..

Yup. Honestly if Bill just pulled a Reid an said "I'm only interested in coaching, someone else can worry about the rest of this stuff", he'd be fine.

I think the whole Parcells mentality of "I should be able to buy the groceries if I am cooking the dinner" is so ingrained into him that it's spoiling everything else.

 

[Wozzy]

No. The Bucs success was based on drafting really well for years and also paying the right players their second contracts something that was foreign to Bill.

In terms of the Pats, you are correct, the roster had been mismanaged for years under Bill which is why the team literally fell apart as soon as the GOAT left ultimately leading to Bill being fired and currently unemployed.

The Bucs spent the #1 pick overall on failure James Winston and had to bring in Bill Belichick's QB... and you think they're the smarter franchise?

They drafted well outside of QB, they also had the benefit of sucking for a long time and enjoying high draft picks. They were the team I said Tom should go to when he announced he was leaving, I know they're good. Their situation was nothing like the 2020 Patriots, the Buc's certainly weren't coming off 4 Super Bowls and 3 rings in six years.

None of us know the power struggle that went on at the end of BB's run, or who was entirely responsible... let's just say it ended badly. Add a great QB to that mix in 2021, and that's a playoff team going forward assuming health. They missed on the QB position.

 

[Wozzy]

Brady made the playoffs and the team had more injuries last year. We went 4-13. You are comparing the 30th ranked team to a playoff team team.

Brady shouldn't have had Arians fired... that's what happened.

They went 8-9 and made the playoffs because as bad as the team was, if the division they're in is worse, they make the playoffs by default. They had more losses than wins, give me a break.

I didn't drive this conversation down the "look what the Buc's did after Brady" road, I simply followed it. I didn't force the comparison, scroll up.

Comparing the Patriots in 2020 coming off 4 Super Bowls and 3 Rings, to the one Ring in 3 years Buc's is silly.

Again... apples/oranges.

It's just more important for some smooth brains to find new and inventive ways to say "Belichick sucks."

 

[Wozzy]

A coach has to manage sociopaths like Antonio Brown, Jack Jones and Aaron Hernandez... but he needs to be "nicer."

That kind of attitude is why we have rampant crime in the streets, flash mob store robberies that clear the shelves and the decline of western civilization.

Snowflakes.

We don't need less accountability, we need more.

Tom was here 20 years, he was burnt out, Giselle was hassling him... all things end. Grow up, that's life.

 

[Tunescribe]

A coach has to manage sociopaths like Antonio Brown, Jack Jones and Aaron Hernandez... but he needs to be "nicer."

That kind of attitude is why we have rampant crime in the streets, flash mob store robberies that clear the shelves and the decline of western civilization.

Snowflakes.

We don't need less accountability, we need more.

Tom was here 20 years, he was burnt out, Giselle was hassling him... all things end. Grow up, that's life.

This "BB's style was lost on younger players" bit of revisionist history might have a sliver of truth to it but nowhere near enough to impact the bottom line. More talent on the roster = more wins = nary a peep about impersonal BB.

 

[venecol]

A coach has to manage sociopaths like Antonio Brown, Jack Jones and Aaron Hernandez... but he needs to be "nicer."

That kind of attitude is why we have rampant crime in the streets, flash mob store robberies that clear the shelves and the decline of western civilization.

Snowflakes.

We don't need less accountability, we need more.

Tom was here 20 years, he was burnt out, Giselle was hassling him... all things end. Grow up, that's life.

There are different styles of management. What you seem to be missing is that you can have accountability w/o having to be a **** about it.

Chuds.

Mayo spoke about holding people accountable but more important he said players need to hold themselves accountable.

Yes, after 20 yrs, even Tom got tired of the same old same old. That says it all right there.

 

[1960Pats]

This thread will serve as a psychological case study one day in the future. Will you join in the fun and discuss girls/AI funny pictures that have long since taken over the chat, or will you resist and be the guy that insists on continuing to argue about a topic that has been discussed daily here for 4 years?

I choose football every time. Especially when my other choice is thunder thighs Lilly.

I don't believe that those pics were being posted here for fun. They were here to derail this thread.

Do you really think the Brady vs Belichick debate is going away?

 

[1960Pats]

Fans are largely morons when it comes to NFL finances and team building.

There is a salary cap, and it plays heavily into how rosters are built. There was a cost associated with playing in four Super Bowls and winning three of them from 2014-2019, and Tom certainly did his part and showed extraordinary leadership by taking less money, by taking a series of one year incentive based extensions so the team could foot the cap bill the subsequent season.

This wasn't a case of BB being cheap, it was an agreed upon decision by the player and organization to manipulate the salary cap so they could build a hyper talented roster... and it worked. You don't play in 4 Super Bowls in 5 years unless you're really talented everywhere and the last time that happened was the early 2000"s when Tom was paid like a 6th round rookie... that wasn't coincidence.

Players have to sign contracts, they're not slaves, it's a two way street.

Tom insisted on becoming a free agent because the gas was leaving the tank in New England, because his wife wanted to live closer to home in Florida, and frankly he was probably burn't out. They offered him the best they could offer at the end and the deal sucked, the team was broke and the roster was aged out... there was zero money for veteran weapons and players.

Tom was a free agent, he chose to leave. Boiling this situation down to "BB let the GOAT leave over a few dollars" is nonsense... fans are largely clueless about the salary cap... it exists, it's real.

Using the salary cap as an excuse for B&B's mistake is lame. We're talking about the greatest QB to ever play the game and he wanted to stay here. And he's gone because Bill's ego got in the way and Bob backed Bill instead of Tom. According to what I heard recently, Bob apologized to Tom Sr for his mistake when Brady was honored here this year. If he knew it was a mistake and is willing to admit that then so should Pats fans.

 

[1960Pats]

Cool story bro. Except you have Mahomes, one of the highest paid QBs, yet they keep on winning in KC. How do they do it? Is their a magical way to handle the cap (it's crap) that no one in NE is able to figure out? More nonsense from you.

Beside Mahomes KC paid Joe Thuney, another offensive player that the Pats didn't value who has gone on to win 1 SB and is in line for another.

Bill Parcells complained about not being able to shop for the groceries if he was going to cook a meal. Bill was allowed to shop for the groceries, cook the meals and decide who the line chefs would be. And for the last 4 years the meals have become worse and worse and the cupboard is now totally bare.