Story on Patriots' documentary brings recent dysfunction to light

[Pats1971]

When you literally have to lie about what I said... you have nothing to stand on.

Only one that lied here was you, about what Tampa's defense was ranked the year before Brady got there. Everything I said was fact.

 

[Wozzy]

Only one that lied here was you, about what Tampa's defense was ranked the year before Brady got there. Everything I said was fact.

You don't know how to read stats, that's a "you" problem.

2019 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2019 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Roster, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

And yes... you literally lied about what I said.

I never said anything close to ""the notion of defense and Bill carried Brady seems comical""... nothing at all like that.

 

[XLIX]

When you literally have to lie about what I said... you have nothing to stand on.

The lack of self awareness in this statement is beyond astounding.

Talk about the pot and the kettle! LOL!!

 

[Pats1971]

You mean the two years before Tom became starter, what about 2002? Tom was a year removed from winning a ring in 2001 and presumably better than the year prior... they went 9-7, was Tom's QB magic not working that year?

This is typical QB fanboy nonsense. QB's are responsible for everything and anything good... until they lose, then it's their team's fault.

The year he lead the league in TD's? Did you really have to cherry pick 1 year out of 19. lol Oh yeah sory, the pats didnt make the playoffs 1 time in 18 years that Brady was the starter, obviously it was him.

 

[Wozzy]

The lack of self awareness in this statement is beyond astounding.

Talk about the pot and the kettle! LOL!!

Just spouting a maxim doesn't make it true.

Provide an example of me lying... otherwise pipe down, the adults are talking.

 

[Wozzy]

The year he lead the league in TD's? Did you really have to cherry pick 1 year out of 19. lol Oh yeah sory, the pats didnt make the playoffs 1 time in 18 years that Brady was the starter, obviously it was him.

But why? You're telling me out one side of your mouth that Brady made all things possible... what happened in 2002?

 

[Pats1971]

You don't know how to read stats, that's a "you" problem.

2019 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2019 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Roster, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

And yes... you literally lied about what I said.

I never said anything close to "Brady was carried by his defense"... nothing at all like that.

Yeah I do know how to read stats. You said defensive points allowed was the stat to go by. Now tell me where tampa bay was ranked in 2019, the year before Brady got there, not 2018 like you said, and then where they were ranked in 2020 when Brady was the starter.

2019 team defense, points allowed. Where is Tampa bay ranked here.

2019 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2019 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

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2020 Team defense, points allowed. Where is is tampa ranked here.

2020 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2020 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

I cannot spell it out to you any easier than this. I mean if you just refuse to acknowledge that Brady coming there made their points given up a ton better and that its not just the defense that makes points allowed go up and down, then I am not sure how else I can explain this. You chose to use 1 stat on defense as a tell all and now you wont even acknowledge how an offense can absoutely keep a team from giving up points. Dont you think its odd that last year the pats were 18th in points allowed yet, top 10 in yards allowed and in Brady years, the pats would be 20th in yards allowed yet top 10 in points allowed? Weird how that works huh.

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah I do know how to read stats. You said defensive points allowed was the stat to go by. Now tell me where tampa bay was ranked in 2019, the year before Brady got there, not 2018 like you said, and then where they were ranked in 2020 when Brady was the starter.

I cannot spell it out to you any easier than this.

Like I said, you don't know how to read stats... that's a you problem.

In 2019 the Buc's team gave up the 29th most points to opponents. The Buc's defense meanwhile allowed the 18th most points per drive.

They didn't give up the 29th most points because the defense was so awful, they did that because Jameis Winston's turnovers that year in 100+ years of pro football was one of the worst error filled performances in history, he threw more pick sixes in one season than Mac has his entire career. He fumbled like the ball was greased in pig fat.

The defense isn't responsible for Jameis Winston's pick sixes or fumbles picked up and ran back to the house, they're not responsible for punts and field goals blocked for returns, they're not responsible for kickoffs and punts taken to the house. I cannot spell it out any easier for you.

Again... you don't know how to read stats.

 

[Biffins]

New Patriots documentary reveals how bad it got between Brady, Belichick: ‘It was brutal’

A review of "The Dynasty," a documentary on the Patriots from 2000 to 2020 by Apple TV+ that kicks off with two episodes Friday.

theathletic.com

Wow. Even Slater talks about how bad things were in the last decade or so, with attribution that the high authoritarian leadership style of the head coach as the primary cause.

(If you don't subscribe to NYT or The Athletic, open in Firefox and use the read function.)

WTF is this stuff........ wow

"Players, including several still on the roster, disclose just how difficult it was playing for Belichick. “It was brutal,” Matthew Slater said. Rob Gronkowski described pulling up to 1 Patriot Place and not wanting to get out of his car to go into work. Wes Welker compared Brady to an abused dog for continually going back to work for Belichick."

"Brady, even while dodging a couple of the more pointed topics brought up by Emmy-winning director Matthew Hamachek — who also directed HBO’s Tiger Woods documentary in 2021 — is more blunt than usual. So is Kraft"

"As Kraft says, “Tom and I had a number of discussions about how Bill treated him. Tommy is very sensitive. He was always looking for Bill’s approval, almost in a father-son kind of way. And that’s not Bill’s style ever to give that.”"

 

[Biffins]

New Patriots documentary reveals how bad it got between Brady, Belichick: ‘It was brutal’

A review of "The Dynasty," a documentary on the Patriots from 2000 to 2020 by Apple TV+ that kicks off with two episodes Friday.

theathletic.com

Wow. Even Slater talks about how bad things were in the last decade or so, with attribution that the high authoritarian leadership style of the head coach as the primary cause.

(If you don't subscribe to NYT or The Athletic, open in Firefox and use the read function.)

Bill is never getting a HC job again.

 

[Wozzy]

Bill is never getting a HC job again.

watch how quickly that narrative changes when talented teams struggle this season.

 

[venecol]

Unfortunately for you, stats aren't your friend...

PPG? Lol

 

[Wozzy]

PPG? Lol

Yeah, points aren't important... it's not like they determine who wins or loses.

 

[venecol]

Is it...So...if an offense controls the ball and keeps the ball away from the other team and does not turn it over and has long time consuming drives and controls the clock....will that keep the points down? Why did tampa bay go from 27th in points allowed to 7th when Brady became Qb? Same defense...Why? Its funny you say that points is most important when the Brady lead patriots had teh highest average scoring total in the league for the two decades he was there. Do those points not count? Yo uare screaming team game but forget that a Qb like Brady makes a defenses job a hell of a lot easier, and that when Brady played somehow the defenses didnt give up as many points. Weird huh. Bill builds good defense, but for some reason they didnt work for wins anymore after brady. Brady didnt tackle anyone, so why did the winning stop? Brady was the most important player on the football field for 19 years in a pats uniform. Thats it, this is not opinion, this is proven. Belichick would tell you the same if you held a gun to his head. He knows what he had and he knows what happened when he didnt have it anymore.

This is why Patriots won so much with Brady.

 

[signbabybrady]

This is why Patriots won so much with Brady.

View attachment 57138

Oh, that little guy? I wouldn't worry about that little guy.

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[venecol]

Yeah, points aren't important... it's not like they determine who wins or loses.

Weird how Patriots D in PPG is ranked in the bottom 12 during the playoffs in 4 of the 6 SB wins. The highest Pats D ranked is #32 ('01 SB) compared to other SB winning Ds.

 

[venecol]

This is why Patriots won so much with Brady.

View attachment 57138

And this.

 

[venecol]

 

[Wozzy]

This is why Patriots won so much with Brady.

Game winning drives is an offense stat. It wasn't just Tom who was prepared for it, his entire line and all his weapons were also. And you thinking coaching played no part in that... smart.

Tom's leadership became invaluable in time, he wasn't providing much of that in 2001. You act like what Tom did, what he did in crunch time and elsewhere, he did that in a vacuum and learned it on his own... all alone.

It took the entire team playing clutch to come back from 28-3, the defense and special teams included. Stop insulting every other player on that field just you can sling some mud at the bad guy who put it all together. Laughable...

Tom's the greatest QB in history, if it were entirely based on his magical powers... he'd have closer to 23 rings than 7.

It's a team sport, 11 on 11. Putting it all on one guy is blind hero worship.

 

[Wozzy]

Weird how Patriots D in PPG is ranked in the bottom 12 during the playoffs in 4 of the 6 SB wins. The highest Pats D ranked is #32 ('01 SB) compared to other SB winning Ds.

This ^ is just a nonsense graphic, a one game snapshot is not relevant in relation to points allowed in the regular season and especially the playoffs. Over time the league has also become more of a passing league, a higher scoring league because of little yellow flags... and you're saying the modern teams let up the most points per game... again, smart.

I don't need a protractor, bar graphs or video presentations. I'm telling you every time Brady won a ring he had a top ranked defense in points allowed (PPD) and provide PFR as a source. This is true on the Patriots and Bucs. And when I say top ranked, I mean top ranked that season in relation to their peers... not the greatest defenses ^ in history.

It's a team sport, the teams that won with incredible defense in regular season, usually also did so in the postseason... if they had offense and special teams to match.

You provide us with some examples of a great QB dragging a bad defense all the way to the Super Bowl and winning it... and this conversation will be over. You win.

But you can't... just some outliers of previously great defenses injury plagued in the regular season who got healthy for the playoffs.

Tom Brady threw for 505 yards, 3TD's in a Super Bowl and lost because his team had an injury riddled defense, but you think his QB magic ran out... or perhaps Tom with his 505 yards, 3TD's didn't quite do enough to win?

If you say "no, I never said that," like you predictably will... then it was his defense that lost the 2017 SB. It was.

So how can you turn around and say his defense played no part in all the times Tom won? Just dumb.