BB THE GOAT

[Wozzy]

You mean the guy that started 100% of the games on a team that went 13-3? Not exactly some random guy that was thrown in the week prior. Unless you think BB made a mistake for 18 straight weeks? Why did he deserve a chance? Because everything that was on the field defensively didn’t work, what was the worst that could happen? One of your more talented players might make a play or two?

Talented? The guy was an UDFA who was working the fry station at Popeye's Chicken when one team in the entire NFL called him for a tryout... one.

Let me repeat what I said above since you think ignoring what was written and simply repeating what you said before is a legitimate response. Regardless of the number of snaps played, playing worse than just about any starting CB in the NFL is not a green light to continue playing. It's not. BB gave him a long leash, then he screwed up the week before the biggest game of the year.

Butler was on the radio this Super Bowl week saying he still isn’t sure why he didn’t play.

Butler wasn't going to rehash how he screwed up, and BB wasn't going to submarine him after 2017 in a free agency year because it would hurt his credibility in the locker room if he trash talked him. Give me a break.

what do I resent exactly? He wasn’t mean to me in any way.

You're on a BB thread telling us that our single worst starting player on our defense all season, a CB, was the reason they lost a game where the opponent totally owned the line of scrimmage and rushed for almost 7 yards per carry and Foles wasn't pressured once.

Tell me you know nothing about football without telling me you know nothing about football. You have an axe to grind wherever there's a BB got carried by Brady happening, you're always walking lockstep with Crawdaddy. You think we don't notice that?

 

[Wozzy]

Who else noticed the fear in Jordan Richards' eyes during the National Anthem knowing he was going to play?

He wasn't going to play.

Patrick Ching left the game with a concussion.

Ebner was already out with injury before the game began. Jon Jones was out, Hightower, Langi and Alan Branch were also out.

 

[All3Phases]

Talented? The guy was an UDFA who was working the fry station at Popeye's Chicken, one team in the entire NFL called him for a tryout... one.

He was an all pro the prior year, does his draft status mean he was less talented than Jordan Richards or Johnson bademosi?

Let me repeat what I said above since you think ignoring what was written and simply repeating what you said is a legitimate response. Regardless of the number of snaps played playing worse than just about any starting CB in the NFL is not a free light to continue playing. It's not. BB gave him a long leash, then he screwed up the week before the biggest game of the year.

Agree, it’s good coaching to watch your team fail constantly and decide to not try anything else to help. 18 straight weeks he was good enough to start, then he immediately wasn’t good enough to play a snap. You’re bending yourself backwards here

Butler wasn't going to rehash how he screwed up, and BB wasn't going to submarine him after 2017 in a free agency year because it would hurt his credibility in the locker room if he trash talked him. Give me a break.

You're on a BB thread telling us that our single worst starting player on our defense all season, a CB, was the reason they lost a game where the opponent totally owned the line of scrimmage and rushed for almost 7 yards per carry and Foles wasn't pressured once.

I didn’t say he was the reason they lost, I said he deserved to play snaps. I’ve said nobody knows if he would’ve made a difference or not. No need to make things up

Tell me you know nothing about football without telling me you know nothing about football. You have an axe to grind wherever there's a BB got carried by Brady happening, you're always walking lockstep with Crawdaddy. You think we don't notice that?

Axe to grind about what? I pointed out the facts, I said coaches are elevated by great quarterbacks. I said he’s a great coach. Unfortunately for us Pats fans, he doesn’t exactly look the same without Brady. I get it, you’re defensive because you’ve probably always been a coach over qb guy and that’s been completely washed away the past few years. I was too, I can just be objective about it

 

[Ring 6]

I certainly did

No you didn’t but I wouldn’t expect that you would.

 

[Wozzy]

He was an all pro the prior year, does his draft status mean he was less talented than Jordan Richards or Johnson bademosi?

2nd team All Pro, and like I said he never played like that again. Just like JC Jackson was considered one of the biggest free agent busts in the league this year. Jordan Richards only played because Chung left the game with a concussion. Their injuries were overwhelming and the Eagles were the biggest baddest offensive line and best team in the league all season.

Agree, it’s good coaching to watch your team fail constantly and decide to not try anything else to help. 18 straight weeks he was good enough to start, then he immediately wasn’t good enough to play a snap. You’re bending yourself backwards here

He sucked, moreover it wasn't the WR's hurting them in the second half, it was mostly Zach Ertz and the running game, the WR's didn't do much once Gilmore switched to man coverage on Alshon Jefferys... again, Chung left the game with injury and Jon Jones was out the entire game.

I didn’t say he was the reason they lost, I said he deserved to play snaps. I’ve said nobody knows if he would’ve made a difference or not. No need to make things up

If he screwed his teammates over the week leading up to the game or let his contract situation effect his play... fck him.

Axe to grind about what? I pointed out the facts, I said coaches are elevated by great quarterbacks. I said he’s a great coach. Unfortunately for us Pats fans, he doesn’t exactly look the same without Brady. I get it, you’re defensive because you’ve probably always been a coach over qb guy and that’s been completely washed away the past few years. I was too, I can just be objective about it

Yeah... it's odd how you find yourself in these BB sucks/BB was carried by Brady conversations all the time... strange.

 

[All3Phases]

2nd team All Pro, and like I said he never played like that again. Just like JC Jackson was considered one of the biggest free agent busts in the league this year. Jordan Richards only played because Chung left the game with a concussion. Their injuries were overwhelming and the Eagles were the biggest baddest offensive line and best team in the league all season.

2nd team all pro, as in better than a 0 team all pro…like Richards and bademosi…correct?

He sucked, moreover it wasn't the WR's hurting them in the second half, it was mostly Zach Ertz and the running game, the WR's didn't do much once Gilmore switched to man coverage on Alshon Jefferys... again, Chung left the game with injury and Jon Jones was out the entire game.

If he screwed his teammates over the week leading up to the game or let his contract situation effect his play... fck him.

If if if if if, if he played, he would’ve helped make 1 third down stop that could’ve helped win the game. See how easy that is to say IF?

Yeah... it's odd how you find yourself in these BB sucks/BB was carried by Brady conversations all the time... strange.

You’re in it too, it’s a popular topic on a patriots forum. I’m openly critical of the coach, I haven’t hid anything bud

 

[All3Phases]

No you didn’t but I wouldn’t expect that you would.

I think he’s better, not sure how else you want me to answer it

 

[Wozzy]

2nd team all pro, as in better than a 0 team all pro…like Richards and bademosi…correct?

Richards was a Strong Safety who was filling in for Chung who got injured in-game... you realize Butler was a cornerback right?

You're suggesting he should have played out of position.... again, tell me you don't know anything about football without telling me you don't know anything about football.

They were missing 350 pound nose tackle Alan Branch... hell, they should have plugged Malcolm Butler in at Nose tackle, they really could have used him upfront where the game was actually lost.

If if if if if, if he played, he would’ve helped make 1 third down stop that could’ve helped win the game. See how easy that is to say IF?

"If" is why you're still whining about Malcolm Butler 6 years later, it's literally why we're having this idiotic conversation and you're using it as a cudgel to tell us how BB got lucky to the tune of 6 Super Bowl rings.

You’re in it too, it’s a popular topic on a patriots forum. I’m openly critical of the coach, I haven’t hid anything bud

I preach team, Brady doesn't get all the credit, BB doesn't get all the credit, everyone is open to criticism.

Arguing a bad player who played on the backend of the defense would make a difference is reaching because you want to find reasons to be hypercritical of the coach and it ignores how football starts and usually ends at the line of scrimmage... that's where games are won and lost. We won a Super Bowl with Troy Brown, a WR, playing nickel CB in the slot. Good grief...

 

[All3Phases]

Richards was a Strong Safety who was filling in for Chung who got injured in-game... you realize Butler was a cornerback right?

You're suggesting he should have played out of position.... again, tell me you don't know anything about football without telling me you don't know anything about football.

They were missing 350 pound nose tackle Alan Branch... hell, they should have plugged Malcolm Butler in at Nose tackle, they really could have used him upfront where the game was actually lost.

You just talked about how banged up they were right? Do you think somebody who could cover is better than somebody who couldn’t? You conveniently left off Bademosi from your post, wonder why

"If" is why you're still whining about Malcolm Butler 6 years later, it's literally why we're having this idiotic conversation and you're using it as a cudgel to tell us how BB got lucky to the tune of 6 Super Bowl rings.

I didn’t start this conversation about the SB, unfortunately. And I very rarely talk about it. You can look at my post history to prove it

I preach team, Brady doesn't get all the credit, BB doesn't get all the credit, everyone is open to criticism.

I never give anybody all the credit, I can decipher which players or people are more important and harder to replicate than others though. The facts paint the picture

Arguing a bad player who played on the backend of the defense would make a difference is reaching because you want to find reasons to be hypercritical of the coach and it ignores how football starts and usually ends at the line of scrimmage... that's where games are won and lost. We won a Super Bowl with Troy Brown, a WR, playing nickel CB in the slot. Good grief...

I don’t need to use a singular game to be critical of anybody, I can use the 10 years of history the coach has without Brady. But it’s not his fault, it’s the trend of the league. Qbs are more important than coaches. This one is 80-90 without his superstar. Facts are unfortunately facts

 

[Wozzy]

You just talked about how banged up they were right? Do you think somebody who could cover is better than somebody who couldn’t? You conveniently left off Bademosi from your post, wonder why

Because Bademosi wasn't injured, you're telling us Butler should have played out of position at Strong Safety because Jordan Richards was forced into action as the third person on the depth chart because the two guys ahead of him got injured. Genius. It didn't matter who was playing CB, Nick Foles wasn't pressured once, he wasn't sacked once... that had to do with our entire defensive front being beat up.

Stephon Gilmore on the Bills in 2016 was just another guy on the 22nd ranked defense in the league... two years later on the Patriots he was Defensive Player Of The Year. You could put Deion Sanders and Rod Woodson back there, if the QB faces no pass rush at all, the defenders are getting beat. Football is won or lost at the line of scrimmage.

I didn’t start this conversation about the SB, unfortunately. And I very rarely talk about it. You can look at my post history to prove it

Your post history indicates you're a BB hater, or at least resent him because he allowed Giselle to talk Tom into leaving for Florida. You're always telling us Bill sucks at his job... it's a garbage take.

I never give anybody all the credit, I can decipher which players or people are more important and harder to replicate than others though. The facts paint the picture

The facts are you believe QB's have magical powers and are responsible for everything, but when they lose it's everybody else's fault. That's the picture that's been painted from my posting for close to 3 decades on Boston sport's sites... a handful of fanboys think these guys are magical unicorns and play in a vacuum. There was an old adage on Boston.com that survived, at least for those of us that remembered it... Tom Brady gets all the credit for wins, but when they lose it's somebody else's fault. Sums up your football philosophy in a sentence.

I don’t need to use a singular game to be critical of anybody, I can use the 10 years of history the coach has without Brady. But it’s not his fault, it’s the trend of the league. Qbs are more important than coaches. This one is 80-90 without his superstar. Facts are unfortunately facts

Tom got his coach fired in Tampa and won 8 games. Seems Tom without Arians or BB is a 500 QB.

QB's don't need smart coaches, blocking, weapons, defensive linemen, LB'ers, DB's, kickers or special teams players.. they do it on their own. In our next lesson we'll learn about the Loch Ness Monster and his relation to shape shifting alien people.

#Dumb

 

[RobertWeathers]

Who else noticed the fear in Jordan Richards' eyes during the National Anthem knowing he was going to play?

Please

 

[RobertWeathers]

Something to consider:

BB and Brady - 3 AFCCG's and 3 Super Bowl appearances in the first 5 years. 3 Super Bowl victories.
Reid and Mahomes - 5 consecutive AFCCC's and 3 Super Bowl appearances in their first 5 years. 2 Super Bowl victories.

You are in denial if you ignore Reid/Mahomes success and that they couldn't make noise to catch Bill and Tom.

Reid turns 65 in a couple of weeks.

Travis Kelce turns 34 in Oct.

The odds are very much against them winning 6 of 9 Super Bowls together.

 

[Ring 6]

I think he’s better, not sure how else you want me to answer it

All that’s left is whether that is based upon ignorance or agenda. Either way you’ve sufficiently clowned yourself.

 

[Real fan 02]

Bill got to 8 AFCCGs in a row from 2011-2018, not 10. And the 16-0 regular season is an embarrassment given the ending. The 16-0 banner was as lame as the Colts AFC Finalist banner.

Patriots' 16-0 Banner Named One of Lamest In Sports - NESN.com

Is an undefeated regular season something to be proud of? ESPN.com's Patrick Hruby doesn't think so. In a list of some of the worst sports banners currently hanging from the rafters of sports arenas, the Pats' 16-0 banner in Foxboro made the cut. Why? That's easy — because the team didn't finish...

nesn.com

How is it an embarrassment? How many teams today are going 16-0 its an accomplishment that the organization can say they have on top of all the others.. and your right 8 straight appearances not 10... I was so drastically off... Colts shouldn't even be mentioned with the patriots..

 

[All3Phases]

All that’s left is whether that is based upon ignorance or agenda. Either way you’ve sufficiently clowned yourself.

We can continue this discussion when both of their careers are over. The only person clowning himself currently is belichick running his teams when Brady isn’t there. And you can prove otherwise

 

[All3Phases]

Because Bademosi wasn't injured, you're telling us Butler should have played out of position at Strong Safety because Jordan Richards was forced into action as the third person on the depth chart because the two guys ahead of him got injured. Genius. It didn't matter who was playing CB, Nick Foles wasn't pressured once, he wasn't sacked once... that had to do with our entire defensive front being beat up.

You didn’t care to see a guy that started 18 straight games attempt to help make a play over guys who weren’t as good as him. That’s your attempt to excuse away a poorly coached game.

Your post history indicates you're a BB hater, or at least resent him because he allowed Giselle to talk Tom into leaving for Florida. You're always telling us Bill sucks at his job... it's a garbage take.

My post history and Belichick analysis doesn’t make me a hater, it makes me a realist. When Brady was on the team, there was no coach I’d rather have. When he isn’t, he doesn’t look like the same guy, does he to you? I’m a slave to the facts. You can’t really prove otherwise

The facts are you believe QB's have magical powers and are responsible for everything, but when they lose it's everybody else's fault. That's the picture that's been painted from my posting for close to 3 decades on Boston sport's sites... a handful of fanboys think these guys are magical unicorns and play in a vacuum. There was an old adage on Boston.com that survived, at least for those of us that remembered it... Tom Brady gets all the credit for wins, but when they lose it's somebody else's fault. Sums up your football philosophy in a sentence.

I’m glad you’ve been at this for 30 years, it must be tough to see your one sided view be crushed in recent years.

Not really sure where I said when teams lose it’s never the qbs fault though. 2022 Bucs Brady was awful, and the team reflected it for example

Tom got his coach fired in Tampa and won 8 games. Seems Tom without Arians or BB is a 500 QB.

He also didn’t want to play football, and wasn’t committed and played horrendously. This doesn’t prove your point

QB's don't need smart coaches, blocking, weapons, defensive linemen, LB'ers, DB's, kickers or special teams players.. they do it on their own. In our next lesson we'll learn about the Loch Ness Monster and his relation to shape shifting alien people.

The quarterback elevates these things. It’s not rocket science.

#Dumb

You can disagree and not insult. Not too hard

 

[Wozzy]

You didn’t care to see a guy that started 18 straight games attempt to help make a play over guys who weren’t as good as him. That’s your attempt to excuse away a poorly coached game.

My post history and Belichick analysis doesn’t make me a hater, it makes me a realist. When Brady was on the team, there was no coach I’d rather have. When he isn’t, he doesn’t look like the same guy, does he to you? I’m a slave to the facts. You can’t really prove otherwise

I’m glad you’ve been at this for 30 years, it must be tough to see your one sided view be crushed in recent years.

Not really sure where I said when teams lose it’s never the qbs fault though. 2022 Bucs Brady was awful, and the team reflected it for example

He also didn’t want to play football, and wasn’t committed and played horrendously. This doesn’t prove your point

The quarterback elevates these things. It’s not rocket science.

You can disagree and insult, not too hard.

Yeah… the Jaguars went from a 3 win team to a 9 win playoff team. The Giants went from a 4 win team to a 9 win playoff team.

Meanwhile the Pats went from a 10 win playoff team to an 8 win team. The Bucs went from a 11 game Super Bowl winner, to a 13 win NFC Championship participant, to an 8 win team that got bounced in the first round.

What did all four teams have in common?

All four had the same exact QB from one year to the next and had changes in coaching.

But coaching doesn’t matter much… this is the “realist” objective analysis we’ve come to expect from you. My one sided view is based on teamwork and group effort, your view is based on a singular magical creature that creates offense, defense, special teams and coaching all by himself. It’s a special kind of view.

 

[All3Phases]

Yeah… the Jaguars went from a 3 win team to a 9 win playoff team. The Giants went from a 4 win team to a 9 win playoff team.

Meanwhile the Pats went from a 10 win playoff team to an 8 win team. The Bucs went from a 11 game Super Bowl winner, to a 13 win NFC Championship participant, to an 8 win team that got bounced in the first round.

What did all four teams have in common?

All four had the same exact QB from one year to the next and had changes in coaching.

But coaching doesn’t matter much… this is the objective analysis we’ve come to expect from you,

When did I say coaching didn’t matter? I said the quarterback elevates coaching. You continue to use 1 year samples while I’m using far larger data samples. The 2 best coaches of this generation are Reid and Belichick. Both of them were not winners until Brady and mahomes got there. Large samples. The giants and the jags won nothing. But to your Bucs example. They went from the worst franchise in nfl history and 7 wins in 19 with the same coach to winning 15 games and a Super Bowl in 2020. Coaching or qb change? Just so happened that the teams success in Tampa hinged on MVP caliber qb play

 

[Seacoast Fan]

Weird take. I’ll take the fear strategy for 6 titles over the fun way for 2.

The one thing BB has NEVER done is coach out of fear.

 

[Wozzy]

When did I say coaching didn’t matter? I said the quarterback elevates coaching. You continue to use 1 year samples while I’m using far larger data samples. The 2 best coaches of this generation are Reid and Belichick. Both of them were not winners until Brady and mahomes got there. Large samples. The giants and the jags won nothing. But to your Bucs example. They went from the worst franchise in nfl history and 7 wins in 19 with the same coach to winning 15 games and a Super Bowl in 2020. Coaching or qb change?

You never say anything, like when I point out Deshaun Watson and Drew Brees led the entire NFL in passing and their teams had single digit victories… you especially avoid confronting those uncomfortable paradoxes. You never say anything, you avoid those examples like the plague.

BB drafted and developed Brady with the help of Weis… he was a 211 pound raw 6th round draft prospect who threw a single TD in the 2001 postseason. God your fanboy is nauseating.