Brady: 11th best QB in the NFL

[RS]

Who's better?

Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Carson Palmer
Damon Huard
Tony Romo
Phillip Rivers
Donovan McNabb, before the injury
Marc Bulger
David Carr
Mark Brunell
Just as good as Brady: JP Losman

Don't shoot the messenger. All these QBs have a higher qb rating than Brady does so far in 2006. Whats up wit DAT!

 

[Brownfan80]

Who's better?

Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Carson Palmer
Damon Huard
Tony Romo
Phillip Rivers
Donovan McNabb, before the injury
Marc Bulger
David Carr
Mark Brunell
Just as good as Brady: JP Losman

Don't shoot the messenger. All these QBs have a higher qb rating than Brady does so far in 2006. Whats up wit DAT!

I know you're an age-old Troll around these parts and everything, but isn't your IQ high enough to realize that none of those other QBs lost 80% of their WRs since last season?

Don't you realize that 80% of Brady's WR group was replaced with Caldwell (lower tier FA signed for dirt bucks), Gabriel (acquired in a trade for a 5th rounder), Jackson (2nd Round rookie WR), and Gaffney (street free agent picked up mid-season) and the only holdover is the ancient Troy Brown?

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but please, have some common sense. Brady is working with matchsticks out there. His WRs this season are horrid. Every one of those other QBs you listed has at least one solid veteran WR that is still productive. Several on the list have pro-bowl WRs. Brady has Reche frickin' Caldwell.

Our #1 reciever is our TIGHT END. Get real buddy. Brady is still Brady, it's his targets that have downgraded.

 

[RS]

I know you're an age-old Troll around these parts and everything, but isn't your IQ high enough to realize that none of those other QBs lost 80% of their WRs since last season?

Don't you realize that 80% of Brady's WR group was replaced with a Caldwell (lower tier FA signed for dirt bucks), Gabriel (acquired in a trade for a 5th rounder), Jackson (2nd Round rookie WR), and Gaffney (street free agent picked up mid-season) and the only holdover is the ancient Troy Brown?

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but please, have some common sense. Brady is working with matchsticks out there. His WRs this season are horrid. Every one of those other QBs you listed has at least one solid veteran WR that is still productive. Several on the list have pro-bowl WRs. Brady has Reche frickin' Caldwell.

Our #1 reciever is our TIGHT END. Get real buddy. Brady is still Brady, it's his targets that have downgraded.

Baaahhh, don't give me the receivers excuse dude.

You guys had riff raff like JJ Stokes, Dedric Ward, Fred Coleman, Rod Rutledge as your receivers and you won Super Bowls with them! I think your receivers that you have right now are better than those guys. So it's not like Brady's never worked with untalented guys before.

I'm not saying he sucks because that would be stupid. But you have to wonder. Do you still blame the receivers for the 14th week in a row after Brady's had tons of time to work with them? Or do you blame the QB who's playing like his head is not in the game?

He's having an off year, and the point of the thread was me being curious to see what Pats fans think about that.

 

[patriotspride]

whos a bigger loser than i am .my team the raiders have become the worst team in football but that doesnt stop me from making a ass of myself when i try to talk smack about the broncoes or any team for that matter .im a embarresment to my mom and my entire famly and raider fans every where !

maybe prozac could help you .your not called RS[really stupid ]for nothing .

 

[RS]

whos a bigger loser than i am .my team the patsies got owned by the lions and dolphins but that doesnt stop me from making a ass of myself when i try to match wits with the mighty and all powerful rs. im a embarresment to my mom, my dad, my pet goldfish, and my entire famly and patriot fans every where ! no wonder no-one likes me on this board lol lol lol

That's it. I've warned you enough about your whining. You've been reported.

 

[TracerTrav87]

David Carr has a high rating because he throws a series of dinks and dunks for short yardage, with the occasional big play by Andre Johnson whenever he gets the ball. Also, David would rather take a sack than throw the ball when he is under pressure, so interceptions are uncommon.

Don't be fooled by the rating, though. Carr isn't half the QB that Brady is. If Tom Brady had AJ and Moulds, he would be having back to back 400 yard games.

 

[patriotspride]

That's it. I've warned you enough to stop picking on me .im tellin my mommy

 

[Brownfan80]

Baaahhh, don't give me the receivers excuse dude.

You guys had riff raff like JJ Stokes, Dedric Ward, Fred Coleman, Rod Rutledge as your receivers and you won Super Bowls with them! I think your receivers that you have right now are better than those guys. So it's not like Brady's never worked with untalented guys before.

I'm not saying he sucks because that would be stupid. But you have to wonder. Do you still blame the receivers for the 14th week in a row after Brady's had tons of time to work with them? Or do you blame the QB who's playing like his head is not in the game?

He's having an off year, and the point of the thread was me being curious to see what Pats fans think about that.

In every year Brady had at least one reciever he could always depend on.

In 2001 he had a pro-bowl year from Troy Brown in his pinnacle season after YEARS with the Patriots and a great #2 in David Patten (scrap heap player not asked to play the role of #1 WR).

In 2003 Deion Branch (2nd round pick), David Givens (2nd year player) and Troy Brown all three had good years and were experienced in the system after a couple years together as a group.

In 2004 Deion was dinged but still produced, but David Givens continued to produce and David Patten again stepped up as an experienced #2 in our system.

In 2006 his #1 WR is first year (in our system) WR Reche Caldwell who was a scrap heap castoff being asked to play #1 WR. Our #2 WR is one of either Gaffney, Jackson, or Troy Brown. Gaffney has hardly played, Troy is too old now to consistently get seperation, and Jackson is always injured.

It's not a WR 'excuse' you troll, it's reality. Our WR corps is depleted, unexperienced in our system, and 80% new. The past successful seasons there was always at least one experienced player in the WR corp that was still productive. Brady has never had 80% of his WRs replaced between seasons.

A QB and WR don't gain continuity over 14 weeks. Especially when you consider that only Troy Brown and Caldwell had a full TC with Tom. Continuity takes much longer to develop especially when ALL the pieces of the WR picture are new besides Troy. It might be different if it was one or two new WRs, but 80% makes everything more difficult. Or if all the players now in place had a full TC, but they didn't.

Jackson missed all but a week of TC, Gaffney was signed mid-season. Troy is old as hell and has again been playing CB (see 2004 for his WR numbers the last time he split time at CB heavily). Caldwell has produced some, but is still behind Watson in recieving numbers.

This year we're full of inexperienced players at the reciever position. The player with the most accrued time in the passing game besides Troy Brown is Daniel Graham. He has never been a heavy part of the passing game. The next most experienced 'reciever' is Ben Watson, -a second year player-.

And another knock against your 'it's not the WRs' blabbing is the fact that Doug Gabriel was let go. If it's not the ineffective WRs then why are they being released?

I know that the Raiders have no season to speak of, but don't you have at least some sort of football to talk with your own fans about a team you actually know something about/care about?

It's amazing to me that through the years since the last time I spoke with you that you've gained zero objectivity and zero football understanding. Amazing.

 

[RS]

In every year Brady had at least one reciever he could always depend on

In 2001 he had a pro-bowl year from Troy Brown in his pinnacle season after YEARS with the Patriots and a great #2 in David Patten (scrap heap player not asked to play the role of #1 WR).

In 2003 Deion Branch (2nd round pick), David Givens (2nd year player) and Troy Brown all three had good years and were experienced in the system after a couple years together as a group.

In 2004 Deion was dinged but still produced, but David Givens continued to produce and David Patten again stepped up as an experienced #2 in our system.

In 2006 his #1 WR is first year (in our system) WR Reche Caldwell who was a scrap heap castoff being asked to play #1 WR. Our #2 WR is one of either Gaffney, Jackson, or Troy Brown. Gaffney has hardly played, Troy is too old now to consistently get seperation, and Jackson is always injured.

It's not a WR 'excuse' you troll, it's reality. Our WR corps is depleted, unexperienced in our system, and 80% new. The past successful seasons there was always at least one experienced player in the WR corp that was still productive. Brady has never had 80% of his WRs replaced between seasons.

A QB and WR don't gain continuity over 14 weeks. Especially when you consider that only Troy Brown and Caldwell had a full TC with Tom. Continuity takes much longer to develop especially when ALL the pieces of the WR picture are new besides Troy. It might be different if it was one or two new WRs, but 80% makes everything more difficult. Or if all the players now in place had a full TC, but they didn't.

Jackson missed all but a week of TC, Gaffney was signed mid-season. Troy is old as hell and has again been playing CB (see 2004 for his WR numbers the last time he split time at CB heavily). Caldwell has produced some, but is still behind Watson in recieving numbers.

This year we're full of inexperienced players at the reciever position. The player with the most accrued time in the passing game besides Troy Brown is Daniel Graham. He has never been a heavy part of the passing game. The next most experienced 'reciever' is Ben Watson, -a second year player-.

And another knock against your 'it's not the WRs' blabbing is the fact that Doug Gabriel was let go. If it's not the ineffective WRs then why are they being released?

I know that the Raiders have no season to speak of, but don't you have at least some sort of football to talk with your own fans about a team you actually know something about/care about?

It's amazing to me that through the years since the last time I spoke with you that you've gained zero objectivity and zero football understanding. Amazing.

LOL @ the Brady excuse machine.

So for 14 weeks in a row it's been the receivers fault, and Brady is totally absolved of any blame for the Pats struggles. It's the receivers fault that Brady's been missing open receivers when no-one was putting pressure on him. It's their fault that he can't throw an accurate deep ball this year. LOL. Right. I know he has the talent, he's proven that, but something is not right with him this year.

Phillip Rivers is having a fine season (arguably a pro bowl season) and I would take the Pats group of receivers anyday over theirs. Why is Rivers having a pro bowl year and Brady isn't?

 

[Brownfan80]

LOL @ the Brady excuse machine.

I forgot, why do I bother with you? You're just here to talk sh*t, not talk football. You're weak.

So for 14 weeks in a row it's been the receivers fault, and Brady is totally absolved of any blame for the Pats struggles.

It's not about assigning blame, you idiot, it's about understanding a situation. The situation with our passing game is still developing, still in flux, and full of inexperience. It's not Brady's fault or the WRs fault that they're not on the same page yet, it takes time for that to happen, and time is something they haven't had alot of together. Grow up, troll.

It's the receivers fault that Brady's been missing open receivers when no-one was putting pressure on him.

You've watched every Patriots game and can say that's been happening? If you've watched every snap of every Pats game, I'd suggest getting a life. The thing about our system is that it doesn't matter if a WR is 'open', if he's not open in the spot where he's supposed to be, then it's still wrong. That's happened alot this season. If Brady calls a five yard incut and the WR runs a 7 yarder and the ball clangs at his feet it looks like it's Brady's fault, but it's not, the WR wasn't where he was supposed to be. That's football fact, jackleg, try educating yourself.

It's their fault that he can't throw an accurate deep ball this year. LOL. Right. I know he has the talent, he's proven that, but something is not right with him this year.

Brady threw the deep ball fine last season. With different WRs. The only player that goes deep for us really is Jackson. We have no deep threat at WR besides him. And it's Brady's 'fault' that he's just missing, having balls tip off of WRs fingers? Get real. Everything you say is so blatantly trollish. Why do you bother to come here and waste your time and ours? Don't you enjoy football? Why don't you want to talk football? Why this needless hostility towards Patriots players and fans?

Phillip Rivers is having a fine season (arguably a pro bowl season) and I would take the Pats group of receivers anyday over theirs. Why is Rivers having a pro bowl year and Brady isn't?

The fact that you'd take the Pats WRs over the Chargers just shows that you don't understand football. It's not their WRs that are better, it's the fact that their WRs are more experienced in their system. They've got guys that have been around a while and can be where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be for their young QB. Oh, and some guy named LT makes the passing game a whole lot easier for that team. You're a chump.

 

[patriotspride]

im so lonely .my raiders suck and i have no friends .thats why i come here to try and start troulble its somthing to do.now i cant do that anymore because patriotspride owns me and makes me look like a complete fool .its got so bad that i told him i was going to tell on him.my god thats so pathetic .what in gods name have i become .please shoot me now

you have nobody to blame but yourself.

 

[RS]

I forgot, why do I bother with you? You're just here to talk sh*t, not talk football. You're weak.

Attacking the opponent instead of his arguments = paragon of someone who is losing a debate badly

It's not about assigning blame, you idiot, it's about understanding a situation. The situation with our passing game is still developing, still in flux, and full of inexperience. It's not Brady's fault or the WRs fault that they're not on the same page yet, it takes time for that to happen, and time is something they haven't had alot of together. Grow up, troll.

So that explains Brady missing wide open receivers badly huh? And it explains how he's made some completions that were awful throws that those "lousy" receivers turned into catches. I've seen a bunch of those from him this year too.

Right.

LOL @ "there hasn't been enough time" excuse. It's week 14. How much would "enough time" be? When you lose your playoff game? Next season?

Your defensiveness is misguided. It's really not necessary to be a Brady apologist with me. I am not a hater. I think Brady is a great QB. The fact he is NOT having a good year doesn't change my opinion of him.

You've watched every Patriots game and can say that's been happening? If you've watched every snap of every Pats game, I'd suggest getting a life.

No I haven't watched every Patriots game, but I've watched enough to draw some educated conclusions about your quarterback.

The thing about our system is that it doesn't matter if a WR is 'open', if he's not open in the spot where he's supposed to be, then it's still wrong. That's happened alot this season. If Brady calls a five yard incut and the WR runs a 7 yarder and the ball clangs at his feet it looks like it's Brady's fault, but it's not, the WR wasn't where he was supposed to be. That's football fact, jackleg, try educating yourself.

LMAO @ "jackleg".

That's right. And when he's in the right spot, and Brady misses him badly (as he's done plenty of times) then it's still the receivers fault. I get it. Where's my Brady pom-poms?

Brady threw the deep ball fine last season.

F last season. I'm talking about 2006. Get with the topic.

With different WRs. The only player that goes deep for us really is Jackson. We have no deep threat at WR besides him. And it's Brady's 'fault' that he's just missing, having balls tip off of WRs fingers? Get real.

Yes, when a ball is tipped, that could be the QB's fault as well as the receiver's. That could mean his throw wasn't accurate enough and/or there was too much velocity on the football.

Everything you say is so blatantly trollish. Why do you bother to come here and waste your time and ours? Don't you enjoy football? Why don't you want to talk football? Why this needless hostility towards Patriots players and fans?

LOL!!! Because I'm not a Pats homer you think I'm being hostile. Great stuff. Take off your Brady apologist glasses and you'll see I'm not here to troll, I'm here here to have a reasonable discussion about football and your QB. I'm not saying it's all Brady's fault he's struggling, but in the past he's had even fewer weapons to work with, and he's won Super Bowls.

The fact that you'd take the Pats WRs over the Chargers just shows that you don't understand football.

Take a look at their roster. What receiver of yours would you trade for theirs? Your receivers aren't as bad as you think. Sorry.

It's not their WRs that are better, it's the fact that their WRs are more experienced in their system. They've got guys that have been around a while and can be where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be for their young QB.

Fair enough, but I still think your receivers are better, and your QB needs to play better than he has if you're going to win in the playoffs.

Oh, and some guy named LT makes the passing game a whole lot easier for that team.

Interesting. So by that logic, when Ricky Williams ran for 1900 yards in 2002, that means Jay Fiedler must have turned into a great QB that year. LOL. It doesn't work that way. Phillip Rivers has been great this year, regardless of LT, and he's had some lousy receivers to work with. So what's Brady's excuse for not playing great?

You're a chump.

*sob*

Oh wait..

LMAO @ your feeble rebuttals.

That's better.

 

[RS]

Oh and by the way:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=46219

He's or she's making the identical point that I was making in this thread.

Is he or she a troll too?

 

[patriotspride]

im a troll i admit it .i come here because the raiders suck and nodbody visits that site .i wish tom brady was the raiders qb .he excellent and hes so sexy

 

[Brownfan80]

Oh and by the way:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=46219

He's or she's making the identical point that I was making in this thread.

Is he or she a troll too?

I get it, I get it. I remember you, I do. I spent way too much time trying to get you to think rationally all those years ago, and I'm not going to do that again.

No, you're not here to talk football.

You're here to make fun of the Patriots and piss off Patriots fans, as you've always been.

So this is it, and then I'm done with your silly games, because I remember from the past that it's fruitless:

You can bash Brady all you want, you can say it's his fault even with 80% turnover at the WR position etc etc.

But comparing the Patriots struggling offense with a ton of problems beyond QB play (such as OL play, hard to be an accurate QB when you're getting pressure in 1.5 to 2 seconds every other drop back) to the (this season) hottest offense in the NFL is pretty sad.

To squish your idea that our WRs are so much better than SDs: Our #1 WR this season is a WR that SD dropped last season as scrap! Think about that when you're spewing your tripe.

Here's their stats:

Antonio Gates 64 798 12.5 57 8
Eric Parker 42 581 13.8 38 0
LaDainian Tomlinson 52 479 9.2 51 3
Keenan McCardell 32 394 12.3 28 0
Vincent Jackson 16 262 16.4 55 3
Malcom Floyd 15 210 14.0 46 3
Brandon Manumaleuna 14 91 6.5 19 3
Lorenzo Neal 12 67 5.6 21 0
Michael Turner 2 17 8.5 12 0

Ours:

Benjamin Watson 49 643 13.1 40 3
Reche Caldwell 47 586 12.5 54 3
Troy Brown 35 323 9.2 23 3
Kevin Faulk 39 298 7.6 20 1
Laurence Maroney 18 188 10.4 31 1
Daniel Graham 17 185 10.9 29 2
Chad Jackson 10 131 13.1 35 3
Jabar Gaffney 6 101 16.8 33 0
Corey Dillon 8 68 8.5 27 0
David Thomas 3 52 17.3 29 0
Patrick Pass 2 24 12.0 16 0
Heath Evans 3 15 5.0 10 1
-
Doug Gabriel 25 344 13.8 45 3 (RELEASED)



So.. Ben Watson is better than Gates?

So.. Caldwell, who SD dropped last season, is better than Parker?

So.. Faulk is better than Tomlinson (RB as a reciever comparison)?

So.. Brown is better than McCardell?

So.. Gaffney and Chad Jackson are better than Vincent Jackson and Malcom Floyd?

Maybe in time this will all be true after these new players meld into the offense, but as you can see the stats don't support your idea. That's because the experience level isn't there yet for our WRs in this system. We don't have a Tomlinson to take pressure off of our passing game. We've got old, slow Corey Dillon and a rookie RB who looked really good for four or five weeks before coming back down to earth for the next 9 or 10.

My advice to you: Get a hobby.

Your obsession with a rival team is weird and unhealthy. It's persisted for years now and I think you're on the verge of needing clinical help. If you do keep up your Patriots-obsession, then at least stop posting things that are purely inflamitory. Try to put aside your hatred for this team and actually talk reality when it comes to football.

Seek help, good luck.

 

[patriotspride]

brownfan80 ill take it from here regarding RS i own him .

 

[Brownfan80]

brownfan80 ill take it from here regarding RS i own him .

Thank you sah, I was done here anyway. I realized after my first reply who the guy was and how effective conversation was going to be. He's all yours! Do your worst! He deserves it.

 

[RS]

I get it, I get it. I remember you, I do. I spent way too much time trying to get you to think rationally all those years ago, and I'm not going to do that again.

No, you're not here to talk football.

You're here to make fun of the Patriots and piss off Patriots fans, as you've always been.

Golly gee genius, you got me. I give up. Wow, how did you figure that out so easily?

I stand by what I said about SD. Phillip Rivers is having a great year with sub par receivers. Brady, well, isn't. Notice I said RECEIVERS. Why are you bringing tight ends and running backs into the conversation? Gates is not a WR, and neither is Tomlinson or Turner.

If you want to say that SD has better weapons overall than the Pats then maybe you have a point. But then I'll just point to 2001 and 2003 where Brady led the Patriots to the Super Bowl with no semblence of a running game and not much in terms of receiver options. What's his excuse this year, with a top notch running game?

But comparing the Patriots struggling offense with a ton of problems beyond QB play (such as OL play, hard to be an accurate QB when you're getting pressure in 1.5 to 2 seconds every other drop back)

Brady is making a lot of bad throws and missing his receivers even when he gets all the time in the world. So that excuse doesn't work either.

Wake up and face the facts. Your binky is not playing well. Why? I don't know. I never really understood the god-like status Brady has in New England. He's a fine QB, but does any football player deserve this kind of adulation? Is there a church of St. Brady in Boston somewhere? If there is, I guess that explains the cries of sacriledge when I criticize him.

 

[RS]

If you do keep up your Patriots-obsession, then at least stop posting things that are purely inflamitory.

Posting on a Patriots board is "Patriots obsession"? Interesting logic.

And this topic is not inflammatory, it's intended to start a discussion and debate. When I try I can be as obnoxious a troll as you've ever seen (like when I started posting here a few years ago under a different name), but I prefer this kind of discussion to mindless bashing.

 

[tedy hagler]

Take a look at http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php which ranks players on a different basis. Brady is 6th I think.

Who's better?

Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Carson Palmer
Damon Huard
Tony Romo
Phillip Rivers
Donovan McNabb, before the injury
Marc Bulger
David Carr
Mark Brunell
Just as good as Brady: JP Losman

Don't shoot the messenger. All these QBs have a higher qb rating than Brady does so far in 2006. Whats up wit DAT!