Drake Maye would be the IDEAL pick for the Patriots at #3

[Simpelton]

100%. All I keep hearing is about how risky it is to take the Quartetback at 3, and “ the haul” they can get for the pick, yet none of them take into account the fact that they will almost certainly have to turn around and give up 3 first round picks just to get back up and take the franchise quarterback in a future draft.

How many picks did we give up to take our last franchise QB in the draft?

The problem is that if you take a QB before your team is actually ready to support them, games still happen between then and now. That young kid gets thrown to the wolves like Sam Howell, Joe Burrow, Tua Tungavailoa and Justin Herbert are. Sometimes that kid gets hurt. A lot of the time like what happened to Mac Jones, it rattles their confidence and can break them.

You want to hope that the kid can have the toughness to deal with that craptacular first couple seasons while you try to build a roster around them but that doesn't always happen. We just lived through that.

This is part of what killed Mac Jones, he could never set his feet or trust the pocket because the line sucked. and since he didn't have a world class arm he needed time in the pocket to execute and he never got it consistently, the lack of protection started to affect him mentally and that was it.

So the question is, are we prepared to ignore the lessons of history, and thus have the privilege of repeating them, or are we smart enough to learn from our own failures?

 

[Simpelton]

100%. All I keep hearing is about how risky it is to take the Quartetback at 3, and “ the haul” they can get for the pick, yet none of them take into account the fact that they will almost certainly have to turn around and give up 3 first round picks just to get back up and take the franchise quarterback in a future draft. The other thing they keep ignoring is the value you get once you hit on that quarterback, which is that you will have a playoff team for the foreseeable future, 5 years of very low cost at QB, and 12-15 years if a franchise quarterback, as as opposed to the never ending search to find one. So the bottom line for me is that you take the QB is you like your evaluation of them, then build around them, which is what almost every playoff team is doing.

Something else for you to consider. Let's say we do trade down, build up the linebacking corps and add some meat to the offensive line, and take a QB in the second or third round, and the QB doesn't work out. OK. that sucks, but it happens. the team now probably has another top 10 pick can try again, but in the meantime the defense is stronger, the line doesn't suck, and we can support the first round quarterback way better than we can now even if we don't get a premium guy.

I'd rather roll this year with Zappe and Brissett in some order and build the roster right, rather than trying to take the shortcuts that teams like the Jets, Panthers, Chargers and Commanders are constantly taking and pretending that that's going to work. I'd like to think my team is smarter than the dregs of the league that are constantly here and never figuring out why. I think this is why. you gotta take these down years on the chin, do the grind, build a strong foundation, THEN go for the premium guy. That's what the Chiefs did, around Alex Smith. It's what the Bills and Dolphins did with Fitzpatrick. and they're now regularly in the playoff hunt. We need to be that smart. We can't be as dumb as the Jets and Panthers, or we'll get the same outcome they get every year -- perennial horribleness.

 

[Ivan]

How many picks did we give up to take our last franchise QB in the draft?

The problem is that if you take a QB before your team is actually ready to support them, games still happen between then and now. That young kid gets thrown to the wolves like Sam Howell, Joe Burrow, Tua Tungavailoa and Justin Herbert are. Sometimes that kid gets hurt. A lot of the time like what happened to Mac Jones, it rattles their confidence and can break them.

You want to hope that the kid can have the toughness to deal with that craptacular first couple seasons while you try to build a roster around them but that doesn't always happen. We just lived through that.

This is part of what killed Mac Jones, he could never set his feet or trust the pocket because the line sucked. and since he didn't have a world class arm he needed time in the pocket to execute and he never got it consistently, the lack of protection started to affect him mentally and that was it.

So the question is, are we prepared to ignore the lessons of history, and thus have the privilege of repeating them, or are we smart enough to learn from our own failures?

History has absolutely nothing to do with the prospects in this draft, and Belichick isn’t making the picks. The ONLY thing that is relevant is how they grade the QB’s. If they believe they are franchise caliber then you take them, period. By your logic they should wait until 198 prospects off the board to take a QB, or never take one, because after all Mac Jones sucked.

 

[Simpelton]

History has absolutely nothing to do with the prospects in this draft, and Belichick isn’t making the picks. The ONLY thing that is relevant is how they grade the QB’s. If they believe they are franchise caliber then you take them, period. By your logic they should wait until 198 prospects off the board to take a QB, or never take one, because after all Mac Jones sucked.

You just sat there and with a straight face said that history has nothing to do with the present.

Ivan, I've argued with you in the past and I know how hard it is to get you to admit you're wrong about something but that has to be the single worst take on any subject that I've ever seen in my entire time on PatsFans.

The same pressures, the same kind of decision making, that we are facing now has been faced by each of the 32 multiple times over and it's insane not to look back at the past and see how things worked out for those teams at that time. It's not just relevant to the present, it's the only window we have to see how things might come out for us.

 

[Ivan]

You just sat there and with a straight face said that history has nothing to do with the present.

Ivan, I've argued with you in the past and I know how hard it is to get you to admit you're wrong about something but that has to be the single worst take on any subject that I've ever seen in my entire time on PatsFans.

The same pressures, the same kind of decision making, that we are facing now has been faced by each of the 32 multiple times over and it's insane not to look back at the past and see how things worked out for those teams at that time. It's not just relevant to the present, it's the only window we have to see how things might come out for us.

Every draft is different, period. Who took what and how that fared is completely irrelevant to this draft. All that matters is this draft and how they evaluate and grade the prospects, and then how they do once they get in the NFL.

 

[Simpelton]

Every draft is different, period. Who took what and how that fared is completely irrelevant to this draft. All that matters is this draft and how they evaluate and grade the prospects, and then how they do once they get in the NFL.

To a point. But human nature is what it always was. To wit: you are again arguing even though you know damn well what a weak take that was. As you always have, and as you always will.

Thus I can use history to predict your behavior even though I don't know you personally.

As I said, human nature doesn't change.

 

[Ivan]

You just sat there and with a straight face said that history has nothing to do with the present.

Ivan, I've argued with you in the past and I know how hard it is to get you to admit you're wrong about something but that has to be the single worst take on any subject that I've ever seen in my entire time on PatsFans.

The same pressures, the same kind of decision making, that we are facing now has been faced by each of the 32 multiple times over and it's insane not to look back at the past and see how things worked out for those teams at that time. It's not just relevant to the present, it's the only window we have to see how things might come out for us.

You’re right, the Texans never should have taken Stroud at 2 because Zach Wilson was a bust. The cardinal rule for GM’s this, never take a player at a draft when there has been a bust at that potion in the draft before. The prospects grade doesn’t matter, only the history at that position in prior drafts. You’re a genius, thanks for schooling me like that.

 

[Simpelton]

You’re right, the Texans never should have taken Stroud at 2 because Zach Wilson was a bust. The cardinal rule for GM’s this, never take a player at a draft when there has been a bust at that potion in the draft before. The prospects grade doesn’t matter, only the history at that position in prior drafts. You’re a genius, thanks for schooling me like that.

You're being very true to your own history.

See? I can use history to predict your behavior. Your history predicts that you will take an awful take, slam your tinpot on your head, dog a trench, climb into it and defend it against all comers, even if everyone's really just coming to poke fun at your paranoid ego.

And here you are.

Now why you think people can't do that in the draft is a little beyond me.

 

[Ivan]

You're being very true to your own history.

See? I can use history to predict your behavior. Your history predicts that you will take an awful take, slam your tinpot on your head, dog a trench, climb into it and defend it against all comers, even if everyone's really just coming to poke fun at your paranoid ego.

And here you are.

Now why you think people can't do that in the draft is a little beyond me.

You are so smart. I give up. The Patriots shouldn’t take a Quarterback because Josh Rosen was a bust. When you get the chance you should give yourself a whole bunch of pats on the back, because the ones you are currently giving yourself aren’t even close to enough.

 

[Simpelton]

I could let you off the hook but I know you too well. I know that if I keep talking you'll keep digging, so please, by all means, let's go for China.

 

[Love The Drake]

My QBs in order Mccarthy, Maye, Daniels,Nix,Pennix, Rattler, Milton.

 

[Simpelton]

My QBs in order Mccarthy, Maye, Daniels,Nix,Pennix, Rattler, Milton.

Milton over Pratt? Really? Why? I don't hate Milton as a later round selection, but I think Pratt is the most slept on quarterback in this draft and I'd put him on the same tier as guys like Daniels and Pennix.

yes, Pratt's arm is about on the same level as Mac's, but Mac was a pocket guy with an average arm, Prat can run, has the best 40 time of any of the top QB prospects, and also features an average arm, which is a much stronger package. with that speed you can stay alive longer, roll out, and take yardage with your feet when the pocket collapses, buy time for your receivers to get open, and basically be a poor man's Patrick Mahomes. All the things Mac needed to be able to do to survive with his throwing ability and simply could not.

I think Michael Pratt going to be a pleasant surprise for someone who grabs him with a late first.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I would not be happy with Maye at 3. He does not seem that much better than Mac Jones, at least in the highlight films I saw.

BTW, how did he do against 'Bama and the Kool Aid gang? Did they face each other? [I don't follow college ball....]

Trade back. Now that you f*cked up the trade and FA opportunities, you need a LOT of picks.

 

[billdog3484]

Maybe patriots keep saying they don’t like maye
With the sole purpose of trying to convince redskiins buy into it and dont draft him. I don’t believe anything any of these teams are putting out. T

 

[Ivan]

Essentially, if the6 do not think that Maye is the guy, they must trade down and draft Joe Alt, maybe a late 1st round qb, and then deal with the potential qb need later...which, they may have to do anyway if they draft Maye.

Next years QB class sucks, and they won’t find a QB in free agency, so they can pass on the QB, just as long as everyone is fine with them losing for the next 3-4 years.

 

[patfanken]

I would not be happy with Maye at 3. He does not seem that much better than Mac Jones, at least in the highlight films I saw.

BTW, how did he do against 'Bama and the Kool Aid gang? Did they face each other? [I don't follow college ball....]

Trade back. Now that you f*cked up the trade and FA opportunities, you need a LOT of picks.

On the other hand, I WILL be fine if Maye is the choice.

Listen Fred, Maye could be the most polarizing QB choice in the draft and people trying to analyze where these guys should go is diverse as there are opinions.... everyone has one. Caught a brief segment on F&M where they played a clip from Phil Perry who graded Maye as HIS #1 QB. Not just for the Pats but in the entire draft. Then Felger had a cohost who I didn't know, who wouldn't pick Maye in the first round. (BTW- this same guy wouldn't draft McCarthy in ANY roumd).

Bottom line, like I have said before, "it's a crapshoot" every time you draft a QB since its the hardest position to master in team sports and often times what you see in college doesn't translate to the NFL game.

While I think Maye should be our pick at #3, I don't expect him to be a star right out of the box. He is young and raw and his footwork and body position as he throws needs improvement. BTW- in one one of these threads there is a great 30 minute break down of Maye's skill set by a "draft guru" who agrees that Maye is the best of the 3 top draft prospects. Let me know if you saw that.

So just what should we look at when they draft a QB. I believe you should break it down to 2 categories, mental characteristics, and physical skills.

1. Mental includes, toughness the ability to fight through adversity. Self confidence the ability to see past what you ARE doing to what you CAN become. Processing speed, can you go through a progression and get through your reads quickly enough to pass the ball to the right guy in the pattern (Brady's superpower) And finally being psychotically competitive, which means you constantly trying to get better and improve even AFTER you have established yourself as a quality QB. (Brady's other superpower).

According to some Maye hits all these marks.

2. Physical Traits - First you need a great arm, accuracy, good athleticism, a sense of how to maneuver inside pocket and a certain amount of the ability to extend plays and run on occasion. And I'll throw in there the ability to throw from different arm angles.

This draft guru really took Maye's game apart then added in all the adversity he faced this year playing for a bad team, in a new offensive system and came to the conclusion that while Maye may not be the "finished product" that the older guys like Williams and Daniels are, he believes he has the mental and physical traits to EVENTUALLY develop into the best QB in this draft.

 

[Love The Drake]

I think Mayes going at 2, thanks Ryland.

 

[Patriot Missile]

You start passing on QB’s over college production and you lose out. Drake Maye will be drafted because of his physical make up and upside. NFL body, NFL arm and Andrew Luck like scrambling ability. If you think you can coach that, mold that, than the answer is clear. You take the guy. There aren’t a lot of QBs with his makeup around the league.

Does McCarthy or Daniels stand out at North Carolina? You can’t reverse the position of where these guys went to school at but I do know that both LSU and Michigan had top 10 lines in college and McCarthy had the best running game in college. Meanwhile 3 offensive line coaches and 2 offensive coordinators In 3 years for Maye. Sound stable? That’s North Carolina with the 36th ranked oline.

At this point I’ll take any of the big 3 and McCarthy with a trade back but I’m definitely not going to count out Maye. Comparisons vary from Herbert to Trubisky but I think his potential hasn’t nearly been touched just yet.

 

[Love The Drake]

You start passing on QB’s over college production and you lose out. Drake Maye will be drafted because of his physical make up and upside. NFL body, NFL arm and Andrew Luck like scrambling ability. If you think you can coach that, mold that, than the answer is clear. You take the guy. There aren’t a lot of QBs with his makeup around the league.

Does McCarthy or Daniels stand out at North Carolina? You can’t reverse the position of where these guys went to school at but I do know that both LSU and Michigan had top 10 lines in college and McCarthy had the best running game in college. Meanwhile 3 offensive line coaches and 2 offensive coordinators In 3 years for Maye. Sound stable? That’s North Carolina with the 36th ranked oline.

At this point I’ll take any of the big 3 and McCarthy with a trade back but I’m definitely not going to count out Maye. Comparisons vary from Herbert to Trubisky but I think his potential hasn’t nearly been touched just yet.

Moot point Was is taking Maye.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Moot point Was is taking Maye.

Moot point Was is taking Maye? Could you be more clear Dr McCarthy?