Is Belichick still a great coach or did Belichick “ruin” Mac Jones?

[Triumph]

Speaking of John Wick... I've been trying to rewatch the first one and count two things, the amount of dead bodies and the number of gunshots. It's impossible even when I record it and stop as I go along.

My buddy would divorce his wife and marry John Wick if he proposed to him.

His movies are all the same.

 

[1960Pats]

Why do you always have to be so cynical? Just look at the past. Belichick took a raw, no-talent rookie QB like Tom Brady, surrounded him with crap and willed him with his own greatness as a QB Whisperer to perform enough for them to win [thank you defense, take a bow].

Bill drafts a 1st Round QB, who was called "the most NFL ready QB in the draft," with 10x the talent of skinny Brady and a product of his buddy Nick Saban, and what does he do? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. He used the same exact formula as 22 years prior. Bill surrounded Mac with crap and willed his own greatness as a QB Whisperer into Mac to perform enough for them to win [thank you defense, take a bow]. No wait. I mean. It didn't work out OK? **** happens. It's all Mac's fault for not taking in his QB Whisperer greatness. It worked once a long, long, long time ago, so that means he still has it. Yea, **** Saban.

And to make matters worse, Mac couldn't hear the QB Whisperer and went out to seek help away from him. That left a few here who would have gladly swung the axe and chopped off the head of Mac for that insult.

 

[1960Pats]

My buddy would divorce his wife and marry John Wick if he proposed to him.

His movies are all the same.

I'm not sure who I feel worse for, your buddy or his wife.

 

[raduray]

Mac is mentally weak and cannot handle adversity AND Belichick did play a role in ruining him.

This. Yes, Mac hasn't shown the mental fortitude to overcome adversity, but much of that adversity was created by Bill. Disastrous coaching personnel, receivers that can't separate or hang on to the ball, offensive line that can't protect. Those are on Bill.

 

[Triumph]

I'm not sure who I feel worse for, your buddy or his wife.

I can hardly wait for John Wick 10.

 

[venecol]

Yeah, I never meant game manager as an insult. And I don't think it diminishes his legacy at all that he was one. They just didn't ask him to carry the team on his back early in his career. Belichick's philosophy for his entire coaching career is to have a dominant defense and efficient offense that make costly mistake (people in this thread seem to want to ignore the efficient part and only focus on not making mistakes). Post 2003 and especially 2007 on, Brady forced him to change that philosophy because he was so good.

I guess all QBs were game managers from 2001-2004 and certainly before 2006. Lol





The myth of Brady being carried by great defenses exposed yet again (for the 1000 time).







And of course, Bill surrounded Brady with All-Pro skill players during the start of his career. Lol

What people in this thread don't get is a game manager can still make big plays and get a lot yards. But the way the Brady got most of his yards early in his career was with what was dubbed by many with a "dink and dunk" offense. Brady could kill you with a thousand little cuts rather than more big plays like we saw more frequently from him starting in 2007. He was more likely to have a drive that took seven minutes and was 10-12 plays throwing 5-6 yards down the field surgically than in chunk plays.

Bill didn't let Brady throw downfield because he sucked at it.



The Brady "dink n dunk" narrative vs 2 of the best. Lol

And a game manager can still be clutch and make incredibly clutch drives in big moments. And Brady did. But even then, he did it most of the time with short quick passes rather than big throws down the field. Look at the first Rams Super Bowl, that final drive was Brady throwing a lot of quick shorter passes than making a big play. There was only one of his completions that went more than 3-4 yards in the air (the pass to Branch for 23 yards with about a 12 yard throw). It was an efficient drive.

Yep, clutch but look at all those dink and dunk passes. Lol

Calling Brady a game manager early in his career is neither an insult or hating on Brady. It just the way they used the guy early in his career.

@PATS16N0 Is right about you. You use every BS narrative dished out by Brady hating Colts/Jets fans to diminish Brady's greatness, yet spent most of the last 3 years trying to convince us how great Mac was. You're dumb AF and a cancer on this forum.

 

[Rob0729]

I guess all QBs were game managers from 2001-2004 and certainly before 2006. Lol



View attachment 55088

The myth of Brady being carried by great defenses exposed yet again (for the 1000 time).

View attachment 55086

View attachment 55089

View attachment 55090

And of course, Bill surrounded Brady with All-Pro skill players during the start of his career. Lol





Bill didn't let Brady throw downfield because he sucked at it.



The Brady "dink n dunk" narrative vs 2 of the best. Lol




Yep, clutch but look at all those dink and dunk passes. Lol





@PATS16N0 Is right about you. You use every BS narrative dished out by Brady hating Colts/Jets fans to diminish Brady's greatness, yet spent most of the last 3 years trying to convince us how great Mac was. You're dumb AF and a cancer on this forum.

A lot of stats to not prove anything to debunk what I said. Goooood for you. I mean look at the passing DVOA. They are 10th in 2001, 11th in 2002, and 10th in 2003. That looks to be a game manager. It wasn't until 2004 until he jumped into the top 5 like I said. And he never drops that low again until 2019. You are basically posting stats that back up my claim.

And what does passes behind the line of scrimmage mean to any of this discussion?

I am sorry that I do not belong to the Mean Girls Brady Cult Posse who attack anyone who says remotely anything you don't like about Brady. You a-holes have attacked like a half dozen people on this thread alone. But that is what ignorant and immature people do.

 

[pctronics0072]

 

[203Pat]

A lot of stats to not prove anything to debunk what I said. Goooood for you. I mean look at the passing DVOA. They are 10th in 2001, 11th in 2002, and 10th in 2003. That looks to be a game manager. It wasn't until 2004 until he jumped into the top 5 like I said. You are basically posting stats that back up my claim.

And what does passes behind the line of scrimmage mean to any of this discussion?

I am sorry that I do not belong to the Mean Girls Brady Cult Posse who attack anyone who says remotely anything you don't like about Brady. You a-holes have attacked like a half dozen people on this thread alone. But that is what ignorant and immature people do.

I don't know why you're still pushing this agenda that Brady was average early on. By all metrics he wasn't.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't know why you're still pushing this agenda that Brady was average early on. By all metrics he wasn't.

Where did I push that he was average? I said he was very good from the start. He just wasn't elite from the start.

Again, you can be a very good QB and a top 10 QB or possibly even low top 5 as a game manager especially in early 2000s.

The pass DVOA for Brady his first three years as a starter puts him as 10 or 11.

 

[pctronics0072]

He was just an "average" QB that based on just the first 5 years alone of his career would have been a lock for HOF

Also, if he had one more SB pre 2007, I think he would have had two separate stretches where he would qualify for the top 5 QBs in history

...but he was still just average at the start


I think the only argument you have is that he was not elite in 2000 since he did not start and presumably could not beat out Bledsoe.

 

[amfootball]

Where did I push that he was average? I said he was very good from the start. He just wasn't elite from the start.

Yes, he was.

Again, you can be a very good QB and a top 10 QB or possibly even low top 5 as a game manager especially in early 2000s.

I think you have a different definition of game manager than most.

 

[amfootball]

I guess all QBs were game managers from 2001-2004 and certainly before 2006. Lol



View attachment 55088

The myth of Brady being carried by great defenses exposed yet again (for the 1000 time).

View attachment 55086

View attachment 55089

View attachment 55090

And of course, Bill surrounded Brady with All-Pro skill players during the start of his career. Lol





Bill didn't let Brady throw downfield because he sucked at it.



The Brady "dink n dunk" narrative vs 2 of the best. Lol




Yep, clutch but look at all those dink and dunk passes. Lol





@PATS16N0 Is right about you. You use every BS narrative dished out by Brady hating Colts/Jets fans to diminish Brady's greatness, yet spent most of the last 3 years trying to convince us how great Mac was. You're dumb AF and a cancer on this forum.

This is awesome stuff man! Any chance you could email this over to me? I will PM you ...

 

[sb1]

I did some analysis a while back that showed that the narrative that Brady was carried by dominant defenses to Super Bowl titles is 100% false. Yes even in his early years.

Debunking Brady being "carried" to Super Bowls by his defense

I found a site where you can find advanced stats on offense and defense per year with filters. One of these stats is EPA - expected points provided by defense or offense per game and per play. For offense positive EPA is good and negative EPA is bad and for defense it's the other way around...

www.patsfans.com

 

[sb1]

I have never met @Rob0729 but I don’t picture him as fat and I am super confident he is not trans… and I know A LOT of trans people, somehow.

@sb1, I apologize to you for my comments the other night.

It's ok not necessary but thanks. Some of my posts lately have been tongue in cheek not sure if you were referring to those. Guess I should have been more obvious. Also just frustrated in general with how things are going this season.

 

[Patjew]

It's ok not necessary but thanks. Some of my posts lately have been tongue in cheek not sure if you were referring to those. Guess I should have been more obvious. Also just frustrated in general with how things are going this season.

I really appreciate that.

 

[PATS16N0]

I guess all QBs were game managers from 2001-2004 and certainly before 2006. Lol



View attachment 55088

The myth of Brady being carried by great defenses exposed yet again (for the 1000 time).

View attachment 55086

View attachment 55089

View attachment 55090

And of course, Bill surrounded Brady with All-Pro skill players during the start of his career. Lol





Bill didn't let Brady throw downfield because he sucked at it.



The Brady "dink n dunk" narrative vs 2 of the best. Lol




Yep, clutch but look at all those dink and dunk passes. Lol





@PATS16N0 Is right about you. You use every BS narrative dished out by Brady hating Colts/Jets fans to diminish Brady's greatness, yet spent most of the last 3 years trying to convince us how great Mac was. You're dumb AF and a cancer on this forum.

He’s already dead. At this point it’s like just stabbing a zombie repeatedly in the chest. He’s just gonna’ keep ******-walking forward with incoherent moans and babbles.

He’s a cancer. A Brady hater. A complete ****ing idiot..

 

[Ian]

I'm going to close this thread. I feel like we're caught in an endless loop where this isn't going anywhere, so it's time to move on.

We've got a game later tonight. So we can argue about that tomorrow if it goes anything like the last couple have.