Jets Show Interest In Samuel

[QuiGon]

I don't think the Jets would use a poison pill because that would ensure they give up 2 first-round picks for him, which they don't want to do.

There's really no need for a poison pill with Asante. Any contract offer high enough to satisfy him will be higher than the Pats are willing to go.

Just becasue Belichick traded Bledsoe to the Bills doesn't mean he is down with trading to the Jets though.

Bill Belichick fears no team. Of course, as I mentioned before, I don't think they will trade Asante to anyone. It's either 2 #1's or nothing.

 

[BB_dynasty]

Asante is just ruining his career if he holds out. But i hope the jets give us 2 #1's.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't think the Jets would use a poison pill because that would ensure they give up 2 first-round picks for him, which they don't want to do.

Just becasue Belichick traded Bledsoe to the Bills doesn't mean he is down with trading to the Jets though.

I think the Jets are laying the groundwork for a deal next year if he signs the tender moreso than trying to grab him for this year, because the price would be too steep.

That may well be all it is, though Mangini could have done that quietly any time over the last 3 months. If they are interested down the road it could backfire on them in the process of arguably backfiring on us (if you believe NE would prefer to get Asante on the field this year bottom line). Just like with Deion, it only takes one team with interest to spark interest from others who think they are missing out on something. And they may be willing to part with more compensation and cash than the JETS can afford to. This is the tag dance, nothing more or less. If there are in fact teams willing to pay Asante Clements money (even the short version) and trade a first for him in the process, more power to 'em.

The NFL remains a copy cat league with lots of dunderheads running franchises into the ground. It amazes me that they never learn the lesson regarding the value of most NE players outside of the system being somewhat less than what even we are willing to pay them. But hey, have at it.

The only problem that will arise is if NE had no intention of trading him and was using the tag simply to retain him for at least another season. It will be harder to get him to sign a no more tags and I'll play deal for 2007 if he is convinced there are teams that will not only pay him his long term Clements like money this season but who are willing to trade "something" for the foolhardy opportunity to do so.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There's really no need for a poison pill with Asante. Any contract offer high enough to satisfy him will be higher than the Pats are willing to go.
Bill Belichick fears no team. Of course, as I mentioned before, I don't think they will trade Asante to anyone. It's either 2 #1's or nothing.

I agree on you first premise and the first part of the second. But it was 2 #1's or nothing for Deion too until you balance that against the impending reality of the liklihood of the player providing little or no value this season due to an entrenched committment to hold out.

 

[psychoPat]

I wouldn't let him go to the Jets under any circumstance.

....

But short of two first rounders, I wouldn't do it. I would for other teams, but not the Jets. ....

Anyway, I think this is all a bit of noise and posturing. I fully expect Samuel to be signed by the Pats to a long-term deal some time around the second week of July. I know that most don't see that, but that's what I think will happen. When push comes to shove, the two sides will find a number that makes each side a little miserable. Otherwise, he will sign the tender. Just don't see it playing out any other way.

I don't see it playing out any third way, either.

But several times each year a profusion of posts that say,
Don't Trade So-and-so Within The Division
compel me to remark:
If we believe that the Patriots have offered a contract (for anyone, not just Samuel)
that accurately reflects their value ...
then whoever offers a richer contract
not only has to pay us compensation, and overpays the player
... but actively handicaps their own roster
by leaving fewer resources under the sal cap to recruit or retain other players!

It is better for us
if the club that embarks on such folly
is in our own division.

 

[DarrylS]

A lot of talk about picking up two firsts, do we want two firsts?? That would be three #1's next year and 2 the second year?? This year we had two and only use one, what would we do with three.. imagine all of the speculation before the draft.

 

[BelichickFan]

A lot of talk about picking up two firsts, do we want two firsts?? That would be three #1's next year and 2 the second year?? This year we had two and only use one, what would we do with three.. imagine all of the speculation before the draft.

Belioli is so good at trading #1s down to get a good dividend out of them, I want as many as possible. If we ever get lucky and have a team whose #1 we get tank and be a top 12 pick, I can't imagine the package they'll turn that into. All these #1s are the lifeblood of our short and longterm future.

 

[Dirtywater]

Re: Jets Show Interest In Samuels

I dont see this ever materializing to much. 1) the Pest would never let him go to the Jets in a trade 2) The only way I could see they would let him go to the Jets would be for a steep price of 2 1st round picks 3) I just think this is a well calculated plan by Tangini and crew to cause heartache in Pest land and to try and raise the value of his contract 4) Dyson is a good corner still young and with the trade up for Revis this doesnt make much sense unless if you can get him w/o parting with much compensation.

It's all good. It's very fun to cause turmoil in Pats land, right? So fun to make our team turn and twist over players who want more money.

Let's see what happens when Rhodes comes up for a contract. Payback is a *****.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think we are giving up on Asante way too soon. All this talk about

holding out for ten weeks may be just bull. About a month from now

I expect the dialogue between his agent and the Pats may resume. It

is much to early too have any serious negotiations.

Logically it makes little sense to hold out and leave $6 million on the table.

Buy I tend to think that someone who tatoos their negotiating position on their arm probably isn't simply posturing.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Belioli is so good at trading #1s down to get a good dividend out of them, I want as many as possible. If we ever get lucky and have a team whose #1 we get tank and be a top 12 pick, I can't imagine the package they'll turn that into. All these #1s are the lifeblood of our short and longterm future.

But would teams want to move up to get that #1?

Reminds me of last year before the draft when then-Houston GM Charley Casserly, trying to gauge interest with teams below him for the first overall pick, called New Orleans, Tennessee and the Jets. Casserly asked Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum, "You interested in moving from four to one?''

"Sure," said Tannenbaum. "What else are you going to give me for it?"

IMO, at this point, the LAST thing the Pats want is to get a #1 from a team likely to end up with a top-5 draft pick.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Logically it makes little sense to hold out and leave $6 million on the table.

Buy I tend to think that someone who tatoos their negotiating position on their arm probably isn't simply posturing.

Yup. With Branch players were talking about how there was no way he wanted to leave, what a great teamate he was, how much he loved winning and this team and his relationship with Tom, he just wanted to be treated fairly and secure his kids future (including the twin with the severe disabilities they likely didn't imagine he'd be OK putting 2500 more miles between)... I think that 11th hour pushing and shoving match came as a shock to them, especially when the team apparently was still willing to talk and the Branch camp continued to decline.

With Asante a few said early on they didn't think money would be the sole determinent, they believed he wanted to stay, but that was about as luke warm as their musings on him got. And Pioli has talked a couple of times (in generalities) about how the negotiation process is not just about $$ but determining what a player really cares about (i.e. playing in NE or remaining with a winning organization whose atmosphere he appreciates or teamates with whom he has built relationships). Some guys don't really care THAT much about winning, as long as the check clears. And some guys never adapt to the area and northeast lifestyle or just prefer the south or midwest, and some guys don't develop relationships with teamates with the depth that shapes their stance.

I think Asante is one of those latter guys. OK with staying, OK with going, just wants his money.

Sometimes you may have to pay full value for the somewhat ambivalent guy (as long as it's not winning he's ambivalent about). Talent would be the deciding factor there. We haven't yet really faced one that pushed the decision envelope because of talent. Seymour came close, (what hometown discount - this isn't my hometown), but at the end of the day I think it is. Being raised by NFL wolves (Ty and Lawyer) he just doesn't like to admit it. Tom and Tedy and Koppen and other are comfortable making no bones about what matters to them. They want to get paid fairly, but it matters to them by whom.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Jets Show Interest In Samuels

It does seem that ever since Asante visited the Jest, he's gone from a happy camper to an unhappy camper.

I think the Jest poisoned the water. This is probably how it went. "Asante this is what we would offer you if those unreasonable Patriots would just be reasonable and let you go for a 2nd rounder". They know that the Patriots aren't going to accept any less than one 1st rounder and more.

If the Jest are the team offering Asante the big contract, the Patriots should stick to the 2 first round pick compensation. Screw the Jest.

Personally, I think it has more to do with his agent, Alonzo Shavers.

Shavers is playing that "'spect" card so common among athletes today.

Let's see, you are going to make $7.9 million this year to play a game, but you feel like you're being "treated unfairly" and you feel "unappreciated"?!?!?

Don't even compare yourself to Deion Branch, who was set to make $1m after three great seasons in a row and a Super Bowl MVP trophy.

And Deion was wrong then, so you sure as he!! are wrong now!

Do you realize, Asante, that Tedy Bruschi has never made $7.9 million in a season? Nor has Mike Vrabel? Nor has Troy Brown? Nor has Rodney Harrison?

Are you really saying after one, admittedly very good, season, you are worth more to this team than Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison & Brown?

Take your $7.9 million and shut the FARK up please or sit out? Who cares? Ellis Hobbs will carry your load and when it's time for you to come back in week 11, you'll be shown a nice, warm spot on the end of the bench!

That should help your free agent prospects, bright boy!

I should expect no less from you being that you went to high school at Boyd Anderson, the notorious South Florida factory for dumb-arse ghetto athletes!

R.I.P. #22. You're dead to me.

ADPF

 

[Pats726]

Yup. With Branch players were talking about how there was no way he wanted to leave, what a great teamate he was, how much he loved winning and this team and his relationship with Tom, he just wanted to be treated fairly and secure his kids future (including the twin with the severe disabilities they likely didn't imagine he'd be OK putting 2500 more miles between)... I think that 11th hour pushing and shoving match came as a shock to them, especially when the team apparently was still willing to talk and the Branch camp continued to decline.

With Asante a few said early on they didn't think money would be the sole determinent, they believed he wanted to stay, but that was about as luke warm as their musings on him got. And Pioli has talked a couple of times (in generalities) about how the negotiation process is not just about $$ but determining what a player really cares about (i.e. playing in NE or remaining with a winning organization whose atmosphere he appreciates or teamates with whom he has built relationships). Some guys don't really care THAT much about winning, as long as the check clears. And some guys never adapt to the area and northeast lifestyle or just prefer the south or midwest, and some guys don't develop relationships with teamates with the depth that shapes their stance.

I think Asante is one of those latter guys. OK with staying, OK with going, just wants his money.

Sometimes you may have to pay full value for the somewhat ambivalent guy (as long as it's not winning he's ambivalent about). Talent would be the deciding factor there. We haven't yet really faced one that pushed the decision envelope because of talent. Seymour came close, (what hometown discount - this isn't my hometown), but at the end of the day I think it is. Being raised by NFL wolves (Ty and Lawyer) he just doesn't like to admit it. Tom and Tedy and Koppen and other are comfortable making no bones about what matters to them. They want to get paid fairly, but it matters to them by whom.

A great post..and one that takes MANY things into consideration..and that is so so correct!! Seymour was a whole other area than both Branch and Samuel. I think they were reasonable with seymour and he was with the team.. Branch was NOT reasonable at all..nor close to where Seymour was in talent..Samuel?? While some might claim he's a top CB...hardly a half a season does that. No go on that one.
As for teh Jets interested..they are interetsed in screwing with the Pats..THAT is their interest it's all bogus!!

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Re: Jets Show Interest In Samuels

it's ashame the precident was set with branch. now every players who thinks they deserve big money is gonna hold out. the pats need to call his bluff and hold onto him even if he holds out until week 10 to get the pendulum back in their favor.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Jets Show Interest In Samuels

it's ashame the precident was set with branch. now every players who thinks they deserve big money is gonna hold out. the pats need to call his bluff and hold onto him even if he holds out until week 10 to get the pendulum back in their favor.

I totally agree. Otherwise, we'll have one of these every season.

The Pats need to make a stand for the franchise.

To his defense, though, I could understand Branch's position even if I disagreed.

He was set to make $1m coming off three great seasons and a Super Bowl MVP.

Samuel is set to make $7.9m! He has no leg to stand on!

 

[g-fresh]

Re: Jets Show Interest In Samuels

Remember the riddle how do you defend Welker, Moss and Stallworth? Mangini cracked it, with Samuel, Dyson, and Revis lol

Lol indeed.

IMO, at this point, the LAST thing the Pats want is to get a #1 from a team likely to end up with a top-5 draft pick.

Your reasoning here is faulty. To smart guys like BB and SP a top draft pick represents more than the rights to draft a player at that spot, it represents value. That pick can be traded down for later picks, it can be traded for a player or players, it gives them a lot to offer to other teams in making deals. The people who are saying they don't want three first round picks don't get it, draft picks are just ammunition for the front office to accomplish their goals.

Now I'm not saying I want to deal Asante for just a first, I think that if Deion is worth a first then a guy who is perceived by many to be an up and coming premier corner is legitimately worth two firsts. At the very least I would trade him for a first, second, and third; or a first and two seconds, something along those lines. I don't let him go to the Jets for anything less than two firsts, no reason to let your main division rival get better for anything less than the highest price.

 

[mangenious]

Re: Jets Show Interest In Samuels

Sorry to bust your balloon, but most of us here aren't all that worried about the Jets. They're a nice little team and are no longer jokes, but I'd say they are in the competent-to-good 8-10 win range.

The Pats, meanwhile, along with all the superfluous junk the national media is predicting about a 19-0 season (yeah, I don't buy that either, but let's just say, things look real good) have two first rounders already in the bin for next year. No matter how much you crow that you have your "core" players signed long-term, no one in the NFL has both the DL and OL uniformly signed long-term like the New England Patriots. Tangini are good, but they nowhere near the level of Belioli.

Fundamentally, we're not looking over our shoulders at anyone right now

If I were you I would not be looking over my shoulder either. Pats are locks to win the division this year unles they experience a brutal injury. The Jets are a playoff contender now but you can start to see them creating something huge. Defense: We havent seen them play yet but if Dave Harris and Darrelle Revis turn out like they should, then that Jets Defense starts to look scary. Rhodes, Vilma, Thomas, Ellis, Dyson, They still need a NT and a nother pass rushing OLB. Offense is a little tricky. Pennington could go down tomorrow and then the next 2 or 3 years depend on if Kelleln Clemens is any good or the Jets ability to acquire a good vet QB. On offense the RB tandem of Leon Washington w/ TJ. WR we could use one more but we still have Cotchery and Coles. O-line has some holes but Mangold is already Pro Bowl quality and D'Brick needs to bulk up but has shown promise. The pieces are there, in two years I believe we will emerge from the nice little team label which we constantly get.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Of course they're showing interest. Mangina doesn't know how to find and develop his own players. If Hill were alive today, and got cut in camp, he would have been a Jet in a nanosecond. Mangina probably already had him penciled in before the accident.

 

[theONLYJerseypatsfan]

Re: Jets Show Interest In Samuels

Remember the riddle how do you defend Welker, Moss and Stallworth? Mangini cracked it, with Samuel, Dyson, and Revis lol

I would pay money to see Revis line up against any of them in his rookie year....if he does again stallworth or moss all you are gonna hear is TOUCHDOWN!

Is Belichick such a good name that he doesnt need a nickname?? Ive never heard one besides the Bioli one

 

[mangenious]

Of course they're showing interest. Mangina doesn't know how to find and develop his own players. If Hill were alive today, and got cut in camp, he would have been a Jet in a nanosecond. Mangina probably already had him penciled in before the accident.

Mangold, Thomas, Rhodes, Brick, Hobson, Leon Washington, Cotchery? Sorry he couldnt do more in one year