Reiss on Wolf’s draft philosophy

[patsinthesnow]

Andrew Brandt, who was a vice president with the Packers from 1999 to 2008 when Wolf was in the initial years of his full-time career as a scout, starts with a story that further solidified his belief in Wolf's acumen.

"I'm a big fan of Eliot. Every now and then I'd walk by his office and ask him what he was looking at, and one time [in 2006] I remember he said, 'I want to show you someone. We're going to take this kid in the second round tomorrow -- Greg Jennings, a receiver from Western Michigan.' And I was like, 'Really? We're going to take a kid from Western Michigan in the second round?' And Eliot just kept saying he hoped he wouldn't go before then," Brandt relayed.

Then he's showing me the tape and pointing out the body control, the hands, the strength. And he felt there was no question it would transfer to the [NFL]."

"I believed before, during and after [my tenure] in the Packer Way, which in simplest terms is 'no quick fixes, slow and steady, trust your scouting, trust your board and almost mandate that your coaches play young players,'" Brandt said. "So it's draft and develop, and then speaking to my end [as a negotiator], once you identify those core players, get them under extensions way before free agency."

NFL Media draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah said on a conference call last week that the Patriots have previously been "one of the more niche drafting teams in the league where they would catch you off guard a little bit because they were so obsessed with fit and might take a guy two or three rounds before anybody else."

Jeremiah expects that to change in 2024 with Wolf taking a leading role, adding that Wolf came up through a Green Bay system that values versatile offensive linemen and receivers with dynamic yards-after-the-catch ability and added value as kick returners.

Extending your young players before they reach FA would be a nice change atleast

 

[BTTA]

Competence. Love it.

 

[50-yard-line]

"I believed before, during and after [my tenure] in the Packer Way, which in simplest terms is 'no quick fixes, slow and steady, trust your scouting, trust your board and almost mandate that your coaches play young players,'" Brandt said. "So it's draft and develop, and then speaking to my end [as a negotiator], once you identify those core players, get them under extensions way before free agency."

Play young players and lock up the better ones.

My two biggest frustrations with BB.

I said here years ago that if I were a promising college WR, the last place I’d want to go is New England. I still maintain the biggest problem wasn’t who they were drafting, but how they wouldn’t develop those guys.

 

[archstanton543]

Play young players and lock up the better ones.

My two biggest frustrations with BB.

I said here years ago that if I were a promising college WR, the last place I’d want to go is New England. I still maintain the biggest problem wasn’t who they were drafting, but how they wouldn’t develop those guys.

I don't agree. Harry is almost out of the league. No amount of developing would have turning him into a competent WR. Thornton is on ice as thin as his frame. Other than being on IR, he hasn't shown much.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I don't agree. Harry is almost out of the league. No amount of developing would have turning him into a competent WR. Thornton is on ice as thin as his frame. Other than being on IR, he hasn't shown much.

I believe Thornton and strong were drafted because we were going to incorporate new elements into the offense and unfortunately Patricia and Jude were inept at executing those and most other elements.

So we got two round pegs that cannot fit in square holes.

 

[upstater1]

Play young players and lock up the better ones.

My two biggest frustrations with BB.

I said here years ago that if I were a promising college WR, the last place I’d want to go is New England. I still maintain the biggest problem wasn’t who they were drafting, but how they wouldn’t develop those guys.

Other than Thuney, the ones who got away were failed signings. I don't think they were bad decisions. Trey Flowers, Elandon Roberts, JC Jackson, Jamie Collins.

As for developing WRs, those players never amounted to anything anywhere else. Indeed, the young guys who produced here and didn't resign had underwhelming careers elsewhere, like Givens and Branch. I think they the ones who failed were just bad WR picks. Not a question of development. Look at Jakobi, he developed. Edelman, etc.

The ones they retained were mostly good, like James White, Donte Hightower, Deatrich Wise. The one guy they retained but shouldn't have, Shaq Mason, I only complain about because Thuney should've been given his money.

The previous strategy was not only to incentivize players by making them play for their contracts but to also give them hard-to-earn bonuses when they did.

I don't see anything radically different from Wolf's approach at all other than playing young players. BPA was the standard here for years anyway.

The players obviously developed; development was their strong suit.

 

[upstater1]

I believe Thornton and strong were drafted because we were going to incorporate new elements into the offense and unfortunately Patricia and Jude were inept at executing those and most other elements.

So we got two round pegs that cannot fit in square holes.

We'll get to see on Thornton, but I was high on Strong from his college tape, and was fairly disappointed to see him have absolutely no wiggle when he ran, and he ran high and went down easy. I caught him in Cleveland. I think of him as a failed pick.

On Thornton, I don't think we have the QB to take advantage of him.

 

[BTTA]

I don't see anything radically different from Wolf's approach at all other than playing young players. BPA was the standard here for years anyway.

From that read, the evaluation and selection process seems more disciplined and less fragmented than what we've heard about the last few years with the Pats. And it sounds like they got away from BPA a bit. But that's all hearsay, of course.

 

[upstater1]

From that read, the evaluation and selection process seems more disciplined and less fragmented than what we've heard about the last few years with the Pats. And it sounds like they got away from BPA a bit. But that's all hearsay, of course.

I'm not sure what anyone's heard. But the unusual process was in 2019 with Harry. Although Harry was considered a 1st rounder by the mock draft consensus, it seems Belichick went his own way instead of with the scouts.

Here's the consensus big board from 2019. Harry is ahead of AJ Brown according to most of the amateur scouts: 2019 Consensus Big Board | NFL Mock Draft Database

Otherwise, you can see BPA in the Gonzalez and Keion White picks.

I'm not sure about Mapu, but I know it's been reported they didn't think Mapu was rated a 3rd rounder, but their board at the time didn't show any 3rd rounders. They wanted out of the 3rd round and found no takers.

If you mean Cole Strange, I think it's the same story. They were waiting for a tackle at 21, and 6 tackles got taken before them, including Penning who was considered an early 2nd rder. They were best off trading up for a tackle even if that meant reaching for Penning, but they were caught with their pants down, in a sense. The trade down from 21 was just a recognition that the values were 2nd rders. Kind of like this year (scouts believe the 1st round grades end at pick 14). They actually tried to trade down at the Cole Strange pick one more time but found no takers. Safe to say they considered him a mid 2nd round value.

 

[Ivan]

Andrew Brandt, who was a vice president with the Packers from 1999 to 2008 when Wolf was in the initial years of his full-time career as a scout, starts with a story that further solidified his belief in Wolf's acumen.

"I'm a big fan of Eliot. Every now and then I'd walk by his office and ask him what he was looking at, and one time [in 2006] I remember he said, 'I want to show you someone. We're going to take this kid in the second round tomorrow -- Greg Jennings, a receiver from Western Michigan.' And I was like, 'Really? We're going to take a kid from Western Michigan in the second round?' And Eliot just kept saying he hoped he wouldn't go before then," Brandt relayed.

Then he's showing me the tape and pointing out the body control, the hands, the strength. And he felt there was no question it would transfer to the [NFL]."

"I believed before, during and after [my tenure] in the Packer Way, which in simplest terms is 'no quick fixes, slow and steady, trust your scouting, trust your board and almost mandate that your coaches play young players,'" Brandt said. "So it's draft and develop, and then speaking to my end [as a negotiator], once you identify those core players, get them under extensions way before free agency."

NFL Media draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah said on a conference call last week that the Patriots have previously been "one of the more niche drafting teams in the league where they would catch you off guard a little bit because they were so obsessed with fit and might take a guy two or three rounds before anybody else."

Jeremiah expects that to change in 2024 with Wolf taking a leading role, adding that Wolf came up through a Green Bay system that values versatile offensive linemen and receivers with dynamic yards-after-the-catch ability and added value as kick returners.

Extending your young players before they reach FA would be a nice change atleast

If he’s right I love it. No quick fix, play young players, be proactive in re-signing your players you want to keep. This is exactly the approach I want to see them follow.

 

[Brotherblues]

Where does this leave Groh? Curious where's the line that splits their duties.

 

[Ivan]

I'm not sure what anyone's heard. But the unusual process was in 2019 with Harry. Although Harry was considered a 1st rounder by the mock draft consensus, it seems Belichick went his own way instead of with the scouts.

Here's the consensus big board from 2019. Harry is ahead of AJ Brown according to most of the amateur scouts: 2019 Consensus Big Board | NFL Mock Draft Database

Otherwise, you can see BPA in the Gonzalez and Keion White picks.

I'm not sure about Mapu, but I know it's been reported they didn't think Mapu was rated a 3rd rounder, but their board at the time didn't show any 3rd rounders. They wanted out of the 3rd round and found no takers.

If you mean Cole Strange, I think it's the same story. They were waiting for a tackle at 21, and 6 tackles got taken before them, including Penning who was considered an early 2nd rder. They were best off trading up for a tackle even if that meant reaching for Penning, but they were caught with their pants down, in a sense. The trade down from 21 was just a recognition that the values were 2nd rders. Kind of like this year (scouts believe the 1st round grades end at pick 14). They actually tried to trade down at the Cole Strange pick one more time but found no takers. Safe to say they considered him a mid 2nd round value.

Cole Strange was the first time I didn’t know who they had just taken in the first round. Granted I had become discouraged at really looking at the draft closely by years of Belichick making choices I really wasn’t expecting, but I still always knew who they had taken with their first round pick.

 

[Ivan]

Where does this leave Groh? Curious where's the line that splits their duties.

I think Wolf won the internal battle for the GM position, and I think we will see Groh move on when Belichick gets his next coaching job, if not to another team next offseason.

 

[archstanton543]

Where does this leave Groh? Curious where's the line that splits their duties.

He's going to be Grohing into the role.

 

[Brotherblues]

If you mean Cole Strange, I think it's the same story. They were waiting for a tackle at 21, and 6 tackles got taken before them, including Penning who was considered an early 2nd rder. They were best off trading up for a tackle even if that meant reaching for Penning, but they were caught with their pants down, in a sense. The trade down from 21 was just a recognition that the values were 2nd rders. Kind of like this year (scouts believe the 1st round grades end at pick 14). They actually tried to trade down at the Cole Strange pick one more time but found no takers. Safe to say they considered him a mid 2nd round value.

The whole sequence on the Strange pick was baffling and still bothers me. McDuffie fell right on their laps. Consensus blue chipper loved by every scout. Now an all pro.

Not revisionist or hindsight, there was a lot of clamoring for that pick here.

 

[Ivan]

Where does this leave Groh? Curious where's the line that splits their duties.

He’s still listed as Director of Player Personnel, but it’s clear he’s reporting to Wolf now.

 

[Ivan]

The whole sequence on the Strange pick was baffling and still bothers me. McDuffie fell right on their laps. Consensus blue chipper loved by every scout. Now an all pro.

Not revisionist or hindsight, there was a lot of clamoring for that pick here.

In fairness to them Strange is an exceptional athlete, and they had lost Thuney and needed to protect Jones from pressure up the middle,

 

[signbabybrady]

In fairness to them Strange is an exceptional athlete, and they had lost Thuney and needed to protect Jones from pressure up the middle,

Yeah I think that was a need pick rather than BPA.

 

[turkeyneck]

Just read thread title carefully -- phisolophy.

Wha?

 

[signbabybrady]

Just read thread title carefully -- phisolophy.

Wha?

The fraternal order of Corellia
Phi-Solo-Phy