zoostation
In the Starting Line-Up
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Every important decision that the New England Patriots make, and have made in the past 10 years, is made by one man...
....and his initials are not SP
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.Every important decision that the New England Patriots make, and have made in the past 10 years, is made by one man...
....and his initials are not SP
I think Pioli's draft in KC in 2009 was pretty horrific...I think he's the bum responsible most for our bad drafts. I'm hoping it was him, cause he's gone now, maybe our ddrafts will be better. So far they have been.
I am going to have to side with SanAngeloState here. Until proven otherwise Pioli has to be on the bum side of the ledger. Two fantastic drafts since he left by the Patiots and two uninspiring (at best) drafts for KC.
You guys are a bunch of timid old ladies not daring to insult anyone and couching any statement with a squishy cushion of wishy-washy modifiers. Is this a political correctness thing? Should we call Pioli "Draft-Challenged"?
Maybe SP's 2009 drafts will work out well but it does not look good so far. Sure some players take years to develop but that there are a ton of players who step right in the first year.
We will know for sure in a few years but right now Pioli is not looking good.
Tremendous use of the 10 character minimum.
I am going to have to side with SanAngeloState here. Until proven otherwise Pioli has to be on the bum side of the ledger. Two fantastic drafts since he left by the Patiots and two uninspiring (at best) drafts for KC.
You guys are a bunch of timid old ladies not daring to insult anyone and couching any statement with a squishy cushion of wishy-washy modifiers. Is this a political correctness thing? Should we call Pioli "Draft-Challenged"?
Maybe SP's 2009 drafts will work out well but it does not look good so far. Sure some players take years to develop but that there are a ton of players who step right in the first year.
We will know for sure in a few years but right now Pioli is not looking good.
Having a fantastic draft is a combination of hard work and luck. Of course, conventional wisdom says that we should wait 3 years before (near) final pronouncement on a draft class, but certainly there are significant indications so far. But this post (as well as many others) is simply off the wall.
Are you saying that Pioli was a bad influence simply because you are extremely optimistic about how well the Patriots drafted in '09 and '10? And that you expect that the Patriots will continue to have one of the top 3 draft classes out of 32 NFL teams as long as Pioli isn't around to drag them down? And this is based on how poorly previous draft classes have done during the previous years when Pioli was an important part of the decision making process?
A little bit of sense either looking at players or looking at success on the field shows that the Patriots had a lot of success in the draft since 2000. BB has often shared how much he appreciates and admires Pioli as well as vice versa. BB agreed on every pick that was made (unless you believe that both Pioli and BB have consistently lied on this over many years - which it's starting to sound like some of you believe because it fits your newly defined view of the world).
Let's get back to reality, folks. Pioli is not a bum because he moved on to another team and BB is not a genius because he still wears the Patriot colors (grey with cut off sleeves ). Pioli was a very significant contributor to a team that is now hailed as the team of the decade and the BB/Pioli team was right significantly more often than they were wrong which, in the NFL, gives you the opportunity to be a great team.
Here's one thing I believe we really can say: the Pats' legendary strategic movement up and down the draft board, and the stockpiling of picks, were all Belichick.
Heading into the 2009 draft -- even after the Cassel trade -- KC had more draft firepower than NE. Pioli used that ammo to draft 7 players, plus traded away a 2010 pick to grab an 8th. Belichick used his 2009 picks to draft 12 players, plus traded for 2010 picks that became Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Spikes and Zoltan Mesko.
In 2010, KC made multiple trades involving vets for picks, and one trade packaging multiple picks to move up. They did not trade down once, nor did they acquire any future picks. NE moved up and down the board like maniacs, and came away with an extra 2nd-rounder in 2011. Totals: KC again selected 7 players and NE 12.
That's a HUGE strategic difference that isn't about luck and doesn't take 3 years to assess. In 2 drafts widely regarded as deep with talent, Belichick choose to load up on value picks (7 2nd-rounders in 2 years!). Pioli, despite having a weak roster across the board, opted to pick and choose and ended up with 15 draft picks vs. BB's 25.
There are plenty of people who speak the "contrary view" but they actually do so with solid reasoning and actual facts. Something you've had a hard time understanding.OK OK. I used a bit of hyperbole; I will never be part of the hive mind here. Someone has to state (respectfully) the contrary view.
SP's early drafts with the Patriots were solid but later they seemed to slip.
There is a striking difference in the draft fortunes of the two teams since SP left. It is such a radical difference it is hard to attribute it all to SP. There must be another factor and that must be Nick Caserio or Floyd Reese.
Personally I don't buy the 3 year rule. Maybe for some players but with most good players you know right away. And for the elite players...well BB said it best when he noted that it was pretty obvious from day one of training camp that Lawrence Taylor and Richard Seymore were special.
I think it is pretty obvious that the Patriots hit home runs with Hernandez, McCourty, and Spikes...especially McCourty. Zoltan and Price also look good. Cunningham is the big question mark but not because of poor production.
I am going to have to side with SanAngeloState here. Until proven otherwise Pioli has to be on the bum side of the ledger. Two fantastic drafts since he left by the Patiots and two uninspiring (at best) drafts for KC.
You guys are a bunch of timid old ladies not daring to insult anyone and couching any statement with a squishy cushion of wishy-washy modifiers. Is this a political correctness thing? Should we call Pioli "Draft-Challenged"?
Maybe SP's 2009 drafts will work out well but it does not look good so far. Sure some players take years to develop but that there are a ton of players who step right in the first year.
We will know for sure in a few years but right now Pioli is not looking good.
Here's one thing I believe we really can say: the Pats' legendary strategic movement up and down the draft board, and the stockpiling of picks, were all Belichick.
Heading into the 2009 draft -- even after the Cassel trade -- KC had more draft firepower than NE. Pioli used that ammo to draft 7 players, plus traded away a 2010 pick to grab an 8th. Belichick used his 2009 picks to draft 12 players, plus traded for 2010 picks that became Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Spikes and Zoltan Mesko.
In 2010, KC made multiple trades involving vets for picks, and one trade packaging multiple picks to move up. They did not trade down once, nor did they acquire any future picks. NE moved up and down the board like maniacs, and came away with an extra 2nd-rounder in 2011. Totals: KC again selected 7 players and NE 12.
That's a HUGE strategic difference that isn't about luck and doesn't take 3 years to assess. In 2 drafts widely regarded as deep with talent, Belichick choose to load up on value picks (7 2nd-rounders in 2 years!). Pioli, despite having a weak roster across the board, opted to pick and choose and ended up with 15 draft picks vs. BB's 25.
To be fair, Pioli did that to himself. He hired Todd Haley to be the Chiefs head coach, did he not? Seems like a poor decision to me thus far. Haley has no business coaching an NFL team.You and the other dunderheads seem to forget that Pioli is now dealing with Todd Haley and the Scouts he has there in KC. It's not a one man show like it might have been in the 80's and 90s.
To be fair, Pioli did that to himself. He hired Todd Haley to be the Chiefs head coach, did he not? Seems like a poor decision to me thus far. Haley has no business coaching an NFL team.
Deus, this isn't just about the top picks. Even back in 2001 the Patriots made 4 draft-day trades, including 2 trades down to acquire extra picks. They traded down or into the next draft every single year. In 2 seasons with KC, Pioli has made no such moves.
To be fair, Pioli did that to himself. He hired Todd Haley to be the Chiefs head coach, did he not? Seems like a poor decision to me thus far. Haley has no business coaching an NFL team.