Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[Real fan 02]

Yep.

Tom Brady is wired differently than all of them.

Addiction. Obsession. Compulsion. Insecure. Whatever you want to classify him. He burned hot 24/7.

Those guys play hard, want to win and improve......but not like Tom.

Hes in the Jordan, Bird, Magic discussion of psychopathic competitors with a chip on their shoulder.

Spot on!! All those greats you mentioned all had that extra element Brady had.. something tatum doesn't possess.. that you almost need to be able to raise above other great players..

 

[RobertWeathers]

Spot on!! All those greats you mentioned all had that extra element Brady had.. something tatum doesn't possess.. that you almost need to be able to raise above other great players..

Don't get me going on Tatum....

This sounds crazy but he keeps improving his game year over year for the wrong reasons.

 

[Real fan 02]

Don't get me going on Tatum....

This sounds crazy but he keeps improving his game year over year for the wrong reasons.

Oh absolutely I love JT but I've just come to the acceptance that he doesn't possess the element to raise above others.. like the game 7 sixers series tatum he should have that element more often than not.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Oh absolutely I love JT but I've just come to the acceptance that he doesn't possess the element to raise above others.. like the game 7 sixers series tatum he should have that element more often than not.

Plus he knew how many f-ing points he had during crunch time. Jesus

Man that pissed me off.

 

[Wozzy]

What you are ignoring is that cummulative stats taken out of context are meaningless. All those shiny numbers produced the 18th ranked scoring offense. If you watched him play you would have recognized many times that he made a drive killing mistake causing the low scoring output. Putting up a bunch of yards when the game is over and feeding off of prevent defense is not close to the criteria of best qb in the nfl.

And yes, the distinction of a qb who plays their best at the most important time is not visible in the stat book you rely upon to judge players.

Stats aren’t meaningless, cumulative or otherwise and you can’t fake his kind of production. Do you notice no bad QB’s ever achieve those types of numbers?

Watson signed a 230M guaranteed contract after being prosecuted for being a sex predator… give up the “he’s not very good” routine. It’s a load of sht.

 

[Wozzy]

Wozzy its not like you to avoid a response that destroys your argument

The graphic in the post you responded to destroyed your argument, you’re just to stubborn and dull to realize it.

 

[All3Phases]

The graphic in the post you responded to destroyed your argument, you’re just too stubborn and dull to realize it.

In the 10 years without brady, belichick coached defenses averaged a rank of 10.7. Essentially top 10, and has 1 playoff win. Can you correlate the success for me?

 

[Wozzy]

Then the table your provided in your post above was pointless. You showed a table showing that Brady has been helped more than any other QBs by their defenses, using the average ranking of the defense (in points allowed per game). Since he left, that defense average PPG (at 6.7 over the past 3 years) is actually better than Brady's 7.1.

You just put in that table to make a point, but then you contradict that same argument to make another point.

Yeah… that’s exactly how not to read that stat. That is the result of 21 years, not a three year window.

And not once has this offense been great. They were terrible in 2020 with Cam. They were decent through 13 weeks for a rookie QB in 2021. The Patricia experiment was a disaster in 2022.

You’re pretending like I’ve stated offense is irrelevant and QB’s don’t matter… I never have. Offense is part of the team. And we’ve seen the result of a great offense and league worst defense with Drew Brees from 2014-2016. He won 7 games three years in a row.

The notion that an elite magical QB can carry a terrible defense, special teams and coaching is fan fiction.

 

[All3Phases]

Stats aren’t meaningless, cumulative or otherwise and you can’t fake his kind of production. Do you notice no bad QB’s ever achieve those types of numbers?

Watson signed a 230M guaranteed contract after being prosecuted for being a sex predator… give up the “he’s not very good” routine. It’s a load of sht.

There isn’t one thing in this post that responded to anything in his response, and you are now implying he’s saying Watson isn’t good? You are this stupid on purpose right?

 

[Wozzy]

In the 10 years without brady, belichick coached defenses averaged a rank of 10.7. Essentially top 10, and has 1 playoff win. Can you correlate the success for me?

That would make sense if someone here made the argument a great defense can carry a poor team to success.

Literally nobody said or implied that. The only ones suggesting a single magic player exists is you, Crawdaddy and the Brady zealots.

 

[Wozzy]

There isn’t one thing in this post that responded to anything in his response, and you are now implying he’s saying Watson isn’t good? You are this stupid on purpose right?

Don’t answer posts for other people, you have a hard enough time defending your own flawed logic.

 

[All3Phases]

That would make sense if someone here made the argument a great defense can carry a poor team to success.

Literally nobody said or implied that. The only ones suggesting a single magic player exists is you, Crawdaddy and the Brady zealots.

so you are admitting that finding a great quarterback that contributes to a dominant offense every year is incredibly hard? Because clearly you just admitted in those 10 years BB couldn’t do it; even though he had great defenses still

 

[Wozzy]

There isn’t one thing in this post that responded to anything in his response, and you are now implying he’s saying Watson isn’t good? You are this stupid on purpose right?

He wasn’t just okay in 2020, he didn’t do “good,” he led the entire NFL in total offense, passing and efficiency. That’s how you get 230 million guaranteed. Give me a break.

 

[Wozzy]

so you are admitting that finding a great quarterback that contributes to a dominant offense every year is incredibly hard? Because clearly you just admitted in those 10 years BB couldn’t do it; even though he had great defenses still

Finding great players is a trait great scouts and organizations have, failing at it is what bad teams do.

The Patriots problems last year had little to do with Mac and entirely to do with Patricia.

 

[crawhammer]

That would make sense if someone here made the argument a great defense can carry a poor team to success.

Literally nobody said or implied that. The only ones suggesting a single magic player exists is you, Crawdaddy and the Brady zealots.

So Bill had poor teams in 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 2000, 2008, 2020, 2021 & 2022.

And he had good teams in 2001-2007 and 2009-2019.

Interesting.

 

[crawhammer]

The Patriots problems last year had little to do with Mac and entirely to do with Patricia.

We'll get a better read on this while watching the 2023 season.

 

[Triumph]

The Patriots problems last year had little to do with Mac and entirely to do with Patricia.

Only a few more weeks where this lie will be exposed as bull5hit.

What did Patricia do to cause your boy to throw the ball to the other team? We have heard the OC lie and the OL lie and the WR lie.

 

[Wozzy]

Only a few more weeks where this lie will be exposed as bull5hit.

What did Patricia do to cause your boy to throw the ball to the other team? We have heard the OC lie and the OL lie and the WR lie.

We’ll find out soon enough, luckily they didn’t place all their eggs in one basket and drafted Zappe last year.

 

[crawhammer]

Only a few more weeks where this lie will be exposed as bull5hit.

What did Patricia do to cause your boy to throw the ball to the other team? We have heard the OC lie and the OL lie and the WR lie.

Harris screwed him on the last one but the rest of those are mostly on Mac.

 

[RDS11]

Yeah… that’s exactly how not to read that stat. That is the result of 21 years, not a three year window.

And not once has this offense been great. They were terrible in 2020 with Cam. They were decent through 13 weeks for a rookie QB in 2021. The Patricia experiment was a disaster in 2022.

You’re pretending like I’ve stated offense is irrelevant and QB’s don’t matter… I never have. Offense is part of the team. And we’ve seen the result of a great offense and league worst defense with Drew Brees from 2014-2016. He won 7 games three years in a row.

The notion that an elite magical QB can carry a terrible defense, special teams and coaching is fan fiction.

Come on now, we all know you put that graphic up because it was what put Brady in a less favorable light compared to other QBs. Then you said there's basically no correlation between defense PPG average over a number of years and actual results on the field (you said the 2020-22 defense was not up to par with the defense when Brady was on the team, despite the PPG being better on average), and now you're adding a caveat that it needs something close to a 21 year window to be legit.

Now you say a 3-year window is not legit, yet you keep bringing up Brees 3-year window from 2014-16 as a counterpoint.

I'm not pretending anything. I'm just pointing out that the 'stats' you keep referring to are dubious at best, or misleading at worst. They're clearly intented to remove part of the credits given to Brady for the team success over the year. The agenda is quite clear.

I don't think anyone thinks Brady would have won surrounded by high school talent and/or Clive Rush as the head coach. That was never the point. I certainly don't think he would have won under these circumstances. I believe the point is that he made the Pats, and then the Bucs, a significantly better team than they were when looking at all the other pieces....you know, by being the best of all-time.

But I also think other great, HOF QBs have a significant impact on their HC legacy as well. Andy Reid was known as a great coach before 2018, but only since Mahomes did we start hearing about him being one of the all-time greats. Mike Shanahan won with Elway, and no one else. Chuck Noll won with Bradshaw and no one else, Paul Brown with Graham and no one else, Landry with Staubach and no one else. It's not that these coaches were incompetent with other QBs, there are all among the best of all-time and build good to great teams over a long period of time, but only with these HOF QB difference makers were they able to win championship. That's how important QB play is relative to everything else. QB play is not the only part of a championship team, but it's usually the most impactful.