PostGame Thread Week 12 PostGame Thread: NE Loses 10-7 to NYG

[Rob0729]

But their teammates didn't feel the need to reassure him and speak up for him on his behalf. I have an issue with that. Leaders do that to their teammates not the other way around...

Again, if Mac somehow gets his head back on straight and gets in the right situation, his teammates may not have to speak out for him. He might be somewhat successful.

But I think the fact players would speak out for him to the press shows that he might have some leadership skills. If his teammates didn't like and want to follow him, they would just let him sink and take the blame. Or even publicly blame him for their own lack of production. You saw that with Baker Mayfield in Cleveland.

 

[upstater1]

First, even when Mac played well in his rookie season and Hunter Henry was producing, Jonnu Smith was only a glorified blocker who did nothing else. You cannot blame Mac for Smith’s lack of production. Mac Jones threw for 3,801 yards and 22 TDs his rookie season with Smith only having 294 yards and one TD. Smith’s lack of production is not on Mac. Henry had 603 yards (one of his better years of production) and 9 TDs (his career high).

Second, Belichick had a chance to get DeAndre Hopkins on the cheap. He is currently on track for a 1,000 yard season in an offense that isn’t producing with no QB. He might have been able to trade for AJ Brown or Hollywood Brown or Jerry Jeudy or Calvin Ridley or who knows else. He could have kept Meyers. Belichick did very little to give Jones anything.

Third, we can both agree that Belichick was willing to spend to get Cam Newton weapons. Where was this spending for Mac? He never spent to get Mac weapons.

Fourth, Agholor and Smith-Schuster are bargain bin guys. Both guys are journeymen. They are #2s at best.

No offense you seem to be acting like someone who was happily married and then found out their spouse was cheating on them. And now say the marriage was always awful and there was never any good times and their spouse was always an awful to them.

I basically disagree with all of this. Jonnu left and started producing. I'm not sure how you don't see this. Hopkins is a short-term solution that actually does very little to help this team. He's old, he's not what he used to be. We've been over the AJ Brown stuff over and over and over again and we simply disagree and never will agree on that. Cam Newton??? These players were signed after the year Newton played here, and no Algholor's $12m a year was NOT bargain basement. Algholor actually had 900 yards the year prior to playing with Mac.

As for your marriage metaphor, your wife is still cheating on you and you refuse to divorce her, but that's a thing for some people.

Seriously, come back from Brokeback Mountain with Mac. Quit him.

 

[Rob0729]

I basically disagree with all of this. Jonnu left and started producing. I'm not sure how you don't see this. Hopkins is a short-term solution that actually does very little to help this team. He's old, he's not what he used to be. We've been over the AJ Brown stuff over and over and over again and we simply disagree and never will agree on that. Cam Newton??? These players were signed after the year Newton played here, and no Algholor's $12m a year was NOT bargain basement. Algholor actually had 900 yards the year prior to playing with Mac.

As for your marriage metaphor, your wife is still cheating on you and you refuse to divorce her, but that's a thing for some people.

Seriously, come back from Brokeback Mountain with Mac. Quit him.

Again, other players performed just fine Mac's rookie year from Henry to Bourne to Meyers. And Mac didn't make Smith have the dropsies.

Here is an example. Tell me how this is Mac's fault.



But Jonnu was responsible for Mac throwing a pick six on this play. Another perfect pass to Smith that he bats into the hand of a defender.



Again, you are rewriting history. Smith was bad here, because he couldn't play. He was awful. That wasn't on Mac.

And of course they were signed for Cam Newton, they w ere signed in March of 2021 when Cam Newton was the Patriots' starting QB and the draft was months away. The Pats didn't know that they were drafting Mac or any QB who could start year one. In fact, the plan was to go with Newton in 2021 and then ease Mac in at some point but Mac outplayed Newton and won the starting roll off the bat. But Belichick had no idea Mac Jones was going to be the Patriots' starting QB when he signed Henry, Smith, Agholor, or Bourne. And he fully expected to start the season with Newton as the starting QB.

And I have said many times that Mac should be released or traded. I have quit the guy. I am just not rewriting history like you.

 

[upstater1]

Again, other players performed just fine Mac's rookie year from Henry to Bourne to Meyers. And Mac didn't make Smith have the dropsies.

Here is an example. Tell me how this is Mac's fault.



But Jonnu was responsible for Mac throwing a pick six on this play. Another perfect pass to Smith that he bats into the hand of a defender.



Again, you are rewriting history. Smith was bad here, because he couldn't play. He was awful. That wasn't on Mac.

And of course they were signed for Cam Newton, they w ere signed in March of 2021 when Cam Newton was the Patriots' starting QB and the draft was months away. The Pats didn't know that they were drafting Mac or any QB who could start year one. In fact, the plan was to go with Newton in 2021 and then ease Mac in at some point but Mac outplayed Newton and won the starting roll off the bat. But Belichick had no idea Mac Jones was going to be the Patriots' starting QB when he signed Henry, Smith, Agholor, or Bourne. And he fully expected to start the season with Newton as the starting QB.

And I have said many times that Mac should be released or traded. I have quit the guy. I am just not rewriting history like you.

You're looking at single plays, and the INT was Jonnu's fault but also way off the mark. He needs to catch that, but it's an easy throw and Mac blows it.

You're wrong about Cam Newton. He was resigned when he didn't have any suitors. They were not going to start him again, not after 2020. They paid him as a backup. And that year had NO QBs in the FA market.

Look at all these players and when they signed: Algholor, Henry, Jonnu. They signed on the same days as Newton. It all happened over a span of 2 days. If anyone says it was all a plan to beef up Newton's targets they'll have to explain why Newton was on the road with other teams in that period.

Mac has been awful since the end of his rookie year. There can be no debate about that.

 

[Rob0729]

You're looking at single plays, and the INT was Jonnu's fault but also way off the mark. He needs to catch that, but it's an easy throw and Mac blows it.

You're wrong about Cam Newton. He was resigned when he didn't have any suitors. They were not going to start him again, not after 2020. They paid him as a backup. And that year had NO QBs in the FA market.

Look at all these players and when they signed: Algholor, Henry, Jonnu. They signed on the same days as Newton. It all happened over a span of 2 days. If anyone says it was all a plan to beef up Newton's targets they'll have to explain why Newton was on the road with other teams in that period.

Mac has been awful since the end of his rookie year. There can be no debate about that.

Cam Newton was resigned with the Patriots on March 12, 2021. Free agency started on March 17. How do we know he didn't have any suitors when he never hit free agency. He wasn't going to be a guy who was going to be signed day one of free agency.

And he was the starter all training camp and all preseason and Belichick said he was going to be the starter. Of course he could very well have been the starter going into the season. What if they didn't Jones, all the first round starters were gone by the time the Patriots picked at 15, and they didn't draft a QB until the second or third round. Odds were good that Newton would have been the starter potentially all of 2021.

Newton was never the long term starter, but it seemed pretty clear the plan was he was going to be the starter to start the 2021 season and potentially the entire season. Hell, right up until the end of preseason, it was believed he would start and Mac would eventually take over during the season.

And Mac wasn't awful all last year. He had stretches where he was average to good last year.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

I've never and still don't feel accountability is a problem.

His boss played it up and milked it for 20 years he can deal with it now or he can fire him but to act like he's slapping him in the face somehow or some other things I've read on here is flat

First, even when Mac played well in his rookie season and Hunter Henry was producing, Jonnu Smith was only a glorified blocker who did nothing else. You cannot blame Mac for Smith’s lack of production. Mac Jones threw for 3,801 yards and 22 TDs his rookie season with Smith only having 294 yards and one TD. Smith’s lack of production is not on Mac. Henry had 603 yards (one of his better years of production) and 9 TDs (his career high).

Second, Belichick had a chance to get DeAndre Hopkins on the cheap. He is currently on track for a 1,000 yard season in an offense that isn’t producing with no QB. He might have been able to trade for AJ Brown or Hollywood Brown or Jerry Jeudy or Calvin Ridley or who knows else. He could have kept Meyers. Belichick did very little to give Jones anything.

Third, we can both agree that Belichick was willing to spend to get Cam Newton weapons. Where was this spending for Mac? He never spent to get Mac weapons.

Fourth, Agholor and Smith-Schuster are bargain bin guys. Both guys are journeymen. They are #2s at best.

No offense you seem to be acting like someone who was happily married and then found out their spouse was cheating on them. And now say the marriage was always awful and there was never any good times and their spouse was always an awful to them.

The amount of posters who feel Bill is somehow personally attacking them because of his press conferences is embarrassing.

Not a personal attack but outright lying should be unacceptable to fan base.

 

[PatsFan2]

Again, other players performed just fine Mac's rookie year from Henry to Bourne to Meyers. And Mac didn't make Smith have the dropsies.

Here is an example. Tell me how this is Mac's fault.



But Jonnu was responsible for Mac throwing a pick six on this play. Another perfect pass to Smith that he bats into the hand of a defender.



Again, you are rewriting history. Smith was bad here, because he couldn't play. He was awful. That wasn't on Mac.

And of course they were signed for Cam Newton, they w ere signed in March of 2021 when Cam Newton was the Patriots' starting QB and the draft was months away. The Pats didn't know that they were drafting Mac or any QB who could start year one. In fact, the plan was to go with Newton in 2021 and then ease Mac in at some point but Mac outplayed Newton and won the starting roll off the bat. But Belichick had no idea Mac Jones was going to be the Patriots' starting QB when he signed Henry, Smith, Agholor, or Bourne. And he fully expected to start the season with Newton as the starting QB.

And I have said many times that Mac should be released or traded. I have quit the guy. I am just not rewriting history like you.

You are Obsessed going back to Mac's Rookie year you can't be serious. Guess you need something to hang your hat on ROB MAC IS DONE IN THE NFL BOOK IT.

 

[signbabybrady]

Not a personal attack but outright lying should be unacceptable to fan base.

Completely false of course he needs to lie don't be silly. What's he supposed to do just tell everyone these 2 QBs suck so I can't make an announcement yet.

 

[PatsFan2]

Patriots' JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR coach Troy Brown get into heated sideline exchange during Giants game

Things are boiling over on the Patriots sideline

www.cbssports.com

What a dysfunctional Team but the homers say we critical fans know nothing.

 

[Rob0729]

You are Obsessed going back to Mac's Rookie year you can't be serious. Guess you need something to hang your hat on ROB MAC IS DONE IN THE NFL BOOK IT.

I am not obsessed with his rookie year. I am correcting a false narrative where people are going back and rewriting his history.

And Mac isn't done in the NFL. At the very least, he will be a back up for the next four or five years. Look at the QBs who spend a decade or more as a back up. Sam Darnold got a second chance to start.

Bedard interviewed a bunch of executives about Mac for an article on his website this past week and the general consensus is that Mac is a good QB who was ruined by a bad situation and that he could potentially become a starter again somewhere else. So someone will give him a chance again to at least compete for a starting job. There aren't enough QBs in the league and someone will at least take a flyer on him to see if they can resurrect him.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Completely false of course he needs to lie don't be silly. What's he supposed to do just tell everyone these 2 QBs suck so I can't make an announcement yet.

His press conferences didn't bother me when they were winning and they don't bother me now either.

 

[PatsFan2]

I am not obsessed with his rookie year. I am correcting a false narrative where people are going back and rewriting his history.

And Mac isn't done in the NFL. At the very least, he will be a back up for the next four or five years. Look at the QBs who spend a decade or more as a back up. Sam Darnold got a second chance to start.

Bedard interviewed a bunch of executives about Mac for an article on his website this past week and the general consensus is that Mac is a good QB who was ruined by a bad situation and that he could potentially become a starter again somewhere else. So someone will give him a chance again to at least compete for a starting job. There aren't enough QBs in the league and someone will at least take a flyer on him to see if they can resurrect him.

Rob there is no MacGeno Smith here the guy is putrid. Rob haven't you realize that Mac arm is so week he's scared and rightfully so to throw to the outsides. Mac has no Trade value alright somebody might give 7th Round conditional great value there. I want Mac - BB and BOB all out of New England!

 

[Mack Herron]

Ian highlights the abominable management of the most important position in sports.

 

[Joey007]

Big agree from me. It is a good defense and the core of it will still be intact next year. Needs a sprinkling of help but nothing major.

On offense they really just need a WR1 and they are probably fine at that position. Pop can definitely be a good WR2 and honestly Juju is coming along, he might be fine as the 3rd guy. Plus Parker is still signed as a 4th guy, and Thornton and Boutte also, though seems like at least one of those last three probably would get moved. RB1 is good, bring back Zeke if possible. OL actually looks kind of OK? Not amazing but better. Lock up Onwenu as a free agent and figure out LT. It seems like Bill is giving McDermott a long look at LT to see if he can replace Brown which sounds bizarre but he hasn’t been a train wreck so far to my eye. Then they just need to either keep or replace Henry, Gesicki and Brown at TE (all free agents) and obviously replace Mac at QB. That sounds like a lot but mostly boils down to - minor help on D, keep Onwenu and Zeke, draft a QB, find a WR1, figure out LT and TE with other resources. They’ll have high picks and tons of cash to do it. It doesn’t sound insurmountable.

$100 million in cap space gives plenty of space to accomplish a lot this offseason.

Wish we had extra draft capital to work with, but at least we're not short on picks like Carolina right now.

 

[goheels22002]

I'd argue that losing Belichick in 1997 was a bigger loss than losing Parcells.

Remember, we went 6-10 with Parcells the year before. Then he added Belichick and the team's fortunes turned around quickly. They both went to the Jets and their fortunes turned around quickly. Even when Parcells had his ONLY good season in New England before hiring Belichick, he went to the playoffs and lost TO Belichick.

This is why I really wonder about Belichick critics who only started watching in the 2000s. If they didn't see all of this going on prior to that, or even the late 80s when the Giants held the K-Gun offense to barely anything (not to mention Montana), they missed out on some incredible coaching. You don't go from losing constantly to winning on the biggest stage overnight unless you have good coaching.

I agree, and that's why I am not on board with dumping Belichick without the knowledge of who replaces him. If someone like Mike Vrabel was waiting in the wings to take over, fine. Bill O'Brien? Maybe. He's unflappable, but like Belichick, we do not want him as GM. He proved he could not do both jobs in Houston.

There's talk of current assistants and some other shining offensive coordinators, but let someone else test-drive them. I'm not sold on a first-time HC for many reasons including in-game management.

Yesterday, Belichick got every second out of the last couple of minutes to line up a 35-yard field goal to get into overtime. The rookie kicker hooking the kick was not Belichick's fault. He and his staff do a good job of in-game coaching.

What I'd like to see is someone from the Ravens or Niners front office come in as GM. I may be wrong about this, but it seems like the Ravens and 49ers kick ass every year in the draft and spend wisely on free agents most of the time. Both of those teams have long-term success and are not one-shot wonders who dig themselves into cap hell like the Rams or Browns. It would have to be a strong, confident manager who could work with Belichick the coach, but Bob Kraft should dangle a zillion dollars in front of his top choice for the GM job.

The issue at 2-9, is that the decision has to be made now. They cannot screw around for the next five weeks and not be ready to move the moment they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

 

[dannydyn]

Watch Belichick trade down in the draft and not take Caleb Williams

Hopefully he'll be wheeling and dealing for another team come this offseason.

 

[Joey007]

The hate in this forum is strong for Belichick. I get it, he lost his fastball Are you telling me that over half the board is going to pretty much discredit everything he’s done here in the last 20+years and that every last bit of it was Brady or Lawrence Taylor with the Giants. This is the part that bothers me.

Again, I get it, the bad drafting has done the team in. It’s probably time to move on. Yes his decision to bench Butler probably cost the team a sb.

However, I think a lot of what the pitchfork crew doesn’t understand about the So called BB loyalists is he did a lot of good things here and gained loyalty for it. Yes, with Brady and yes he was a huge factor just like many other great coaches that benefited from great QBs.

His last real success was with Brady. In 2018 when they played the Rams and Our QB had a less than stellar game, the corners scheme helped a great deal in winning that game.

In the same year, although it took OT to beat the Chiefs and the 2nd half was a circus ride, the coaches did come up with a game plan that confused the hell out of Reid and Mahomes pretty much shutting them out in the first half.

All those Peyton forehead games?

We had the best Qb/coach combo of all time as far as I’m concerned. I refuse to hate on a guy that gave the team everything he could teach. After 2 a days were bargained out the best teacher no longer had the advantage with lesser talent.Guyslike Earthland Moreland and Randall Gay were made serviceable and just about every player knew the game plan for the week just incase a injury or they wanted to play 7 db’s.

Again, his time here is probably done, it is what it is. But it’s not like Bill is naive, he has been quoted in the past as saying “Players win Championships.” He knows this all too well.

Why can't there be a middle ground here in where we recognize Bill's past greatness, but also can be honest about his major shortcomings in the present?

Bill is one of the greatest coaches of all time, and no it wasn't JUST all Brady. I watched way too many defensive masterclasses, 2008 when he lead Matt Cassel to an 11-5 record, and 2016 when he was plugging in QB after QB and still dominating quality opponents. There's endless proof that he has been an amazing coach.

But recent results do matter for right now. Coaches can decline the way players decline. There are countless all-time great HC's who dipped off at the end of their careers. (Landry, Noll, even Shula underachieved big time late in his career with Marino in his prime) Bill is clearly hitting that same decline. His decline as a GM has been ongoing for a decade now, and now it looks like his coaching capability is hitting that same decline as well.

 

[Joey007]

I agree, and that's why I am not on board with dumping Belichick without the knowledge of who replaces him. If someone like Mike Vrabel was waiting in the wings to take over, fine. Bill O'Brien? Maybe. He's unflappable, but like Belichick, we do not want him as GM. He proved he could not do both jobs in Houston.

There's talk of current assistants and some other shining offensive coordinators, but let someone else test-drive them. I'm not sold on a first-time HC for many reasons including in-game management.

Yesterday, Belichick got every second out of the last couple of minutes to line up a 35-yard field goal to get into overtime. The rookie kicker hooking the kick was not Belichick's fault. He and his staff do a good job of in-game coaching.

What I'd like to see is someone from the Ravens or Niners front office come in as GM. I may be wrong about this, but it seems like the Ravens and 49ers kick ass every year in the draft and spend wisely on free agents most of the time. Both of those teams have long-term success and are not one-shot wonders who dig themselves into cap hell like the Rams or Browns. It would have to be a strong, confident manager who could work with Belichick the coach, but Bob Kraft should dangle a zillion dollars in front of his top choice for the GM job.

The issue at 2-9, is that the decision has to be made now. They cannot screw around for the next five weeks and not be ready to move the moment they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

This all goes under the assumption Bill is willing to coach a team he's not the GM over. Keeping Bill as the GM/HC is simply not an option now. This offseason is the most important offseason for the franchise in decades. It can't be whiffed on.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree, and that's why I am not on board with dumping Belichick without the knowledge of who replaces him. If someone like Mike Vrabel was waiting in the wings to take over, fine. Bill O'Brien? Maybe. He's unflappable, but like Belichick, we do not want him as GM. He proved he could not do both jobs in Houston.

There's talk of current assistants and some other shining offensive coordinators, but let someone else test-drive them. I'm not sold on a first-time HC for many reasons including in-game management.

Yesterday, Belichick got every second out of the last couple of minutes to line up a 35-yard field goal to get into overtime. The rookie kicker hooking the kick was not Belichick's fault. He and his staff do a good job of in-game coaching.

What I'd like to see is someone from the Ravens or Niners front office come in as GM. I may be wrong about this, but it seems like the Ravens and 49ers kick ass every year in the draft and spend wisely on free agents most of the time. Both of those teams have long-term success and are not one-shot wonders who dig themselves into cap hell like the Rams or Browns. It would have to be a strong, confident manager who could work with Belichick the coach, but Bob Kraft should dangle a zillion dollars in front of his top choice for the GM job.

The issue at 2-9, is that the decision has to be made now. They cannot screw around for the next five weeks and not be ready to move the moment they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

I disagree with you about yesterday. The Pats had a shot to win in regulation and didn't even try to take a shot for a TD. Granted having Zappe was the biggest issue in that because they don't trust him to make much more than quick dump offs because he cannot read defenses. But when you are 2-8, it is worth taking a shot.

Plus they wasted a time out that could have have come back to bite them in the arse doing that stupid wild cat fake trying to get the Giants to go offsides. I don't think he should have done that and just punted the ball, but when they did they were better off taking the delay of game penalty.

I am sorry, but I question far too many of Belichick's coaching decisions these days than ever. He seems to make a lot of bad decisions. He is way too overly cautious when the league is becoming more aggressive especially going for it on 4th downs. The fact that Belichick rarely goes for it on fourth downs probably is the reason why they didn't bite on the fake wild cat.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I missed the draft. Is this true? If so, it's hilarious.

"Ryland’s struggles have to feel like a gut punch for the Patriots considering coach Bill Belichick traded up to get him in the fourth-round of the 2023 NFL draft, when the team already had Nick Folk on their roster.

To put this massive blunder into perspective, the Patriots drafted Ryland over Los Angeles Rams wide receiver Puka Nacua, who the Patriots had an eye on in the pre-draft process."

They do have Douglas which kinda makes up for that, and I don't think Nucua would have had 900 there if Kupp had been healthy.