What if we *Don't* hire a GM?

[Real fan 02]

The last time the New England Patriots had a General Manager was 1991...

Victor Kiam was the owner, and the role and title was filled by Sam Jankovich...

When James Orthwein took over in 1992, the GM position was axed... Sam Jankovich transitioned into a CEO role, and the ownership group ran like a board of directors of a Company... Jankovich lasted for one season in that role before it was eliminated... The role of the General Manager / CEO transitioned from football operations / personnel to a split between the front office and personnel... The breakdown: Chairman of the Board: James Orthwein ; Vice Chairman of the Board: Michael O'Hallaron ; EVP of Football Operations: Patrick Forte ; VP: Bucko Kilroy ; Director of College Scouting – Charley Armey ; Director of Pro Scouting – Bobby Grier

When Robert Kraft bought the team, the new front office was incorporated as such:
President and Chief Executive Officer: Robert Kraft ; VP & Owner's Representative: Jonathan "Stamps" Kraft ; VP of Business Operations: Andy Wasynczuk ; VP of Football Operations: Patrick Forte ; Director of College Scouting: Charley Armey ; Director of Pro Scouting: Bobby Grier ; Scouting Consultant – Bucko Kilroy; The same basic front office structure is in place now... there are a few more people, but generally its run the same...

When Parcells was here, Bobby Grier was really the go to Personnel guy that the team was looking to... and we all know what happened... This team took a beating because of losing Parcells over a draft pick, creating turmoil that followed them all the way to and through the Super Bowl... The Carroll years were run in the same way that the Parcells years were in terms of the front office structure... When BB took over in 2000, the front office changed in that Pioli was installed as the Assistant Director of Player Personnel... While the role functions similarly the the Directors of the early & late 1990's, it avoids the chaos (RKK even kind of references this in his Q&A today) of having multiple voices all talking at once...

Is it crazy to think that the Patriots will not be hiring a General Manager? That they might be looking for the Head Coach to oversee the Personnel department like it has been run for 24 years under Belichick & Co. ?


Ω

Thank you @Pape. Very informative post!
I believe the organization will in fact designate someone as GM. I've personally said I believe it's Groh. The thing is as you know of course... Bill had the "ye" & " Ne" on all roster decisions. I don't believe the personnel people were going to challenge him or go against his opinion on players as he was the GOAT.

So with a more realistic collaboration, having sports science, analytical people involved will make a huge difference IMO.

However ...whatever the organization decides to do.. we need TALENT. If we can get the QB that helps this reset/rebuild tremendously. That is the GMs # priority!

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

because teams were not afraid of the passing game & could tee off on the backs... we were forced into much more 3rd & longs, and as a result the number of conversions has dropped because we have not been successful on 1st or 2nd down in a general sense...

In addition, we had no true third down back in the vein of James White... without that true dual threat, its easier to defend... the conversion numbers bear that out... its been a steady decline, where we only converted 30% of a paltry 67 third down attempts... compare that to 2021, when Mac was halfway decent - 91 third down attempt, with a 43.5% conversion rate...

This isn't the whole reason "why" - there are other factors that are the direct cause, but it does help create the outline of "why" it was happening.

Same thing happened with Patricia but yet they could run out when teams knew they would run

 

[upstater1]

Thank you @Pape. Very informative post!
I believe the organization will in fact designate someone as GM. I've personally said I believe it's Groh. The thing is as you know of course... Bill had the "ye" & " Ne" on all roster decisions. I don't believe the personnel people were going to challenge him or go against his opinion on players as he was the GOAT.

So with a more realistic collaboration, having sports science, analytical people involved will make a huge difference IMO.

However ...whatever the organization decides to do.. we need TALENT. If we can get the QB that helps this reset/rebuild tremendously. That is the GMs # priority!

Analytics said that JuJu was better than Jakobi because of YAC.

Belichick preferred Jakobi but our analytics people were convinced by JuJu instead.

 

[jmt57]

Yeah, bring in a guy with proven, senior experience but who isn’t the top dog. Bring him to the Patriots as GM. Helps if there’s a Patriots connection, but nothing closely linking him to Belichick

That ship has sailed.
So who could it be?
one name that comes to mind is a guy with the Lions. Ray Agnew. Sounds familiar.

Ray Agnew is in the DET front office?

I had no idea that Agnew was involved in football at all. He has quite an extensive and impressive résumé.

Ray Agnew

Ray Agnew enters his third season with the Lions as assistant general manager after joining the team in 2021. Before coming to Detroit, Agnew spent four years as the director of pro scouting with the Los Angeles Rams. He was a member of the Rams scouting staff for 18 seasons, having previously served as the assistant director of pro personnel.​

​

Agnew assists and consults Executive Vice President and General Manager Brad Holmes with all functions of the player personnel department. In Los Angeles, Agnew was tasked with evaluating all 32 NFL rosters in preparation for free agency and writing advance scouting reports for upcoming opponents. For the draft, he evaluated all players on the Rams' draft board and prepared grades alongside team need analysis for the draft process. Throughout the year, Agnew was also responsible for the preparation of potential trade scenarios.​

​

Prior to transitioning to the Rams' personnel department, Agnew spent seven years as director of player development/team pastor with the Rams. He served as a spiritual mentor for players and assisted them with life issues.​

 

[Peachhead]

It's just a title. As long as the guy picking the players has plenty of others to provide input and additional info. And just as long as the guy making the final call is looking for the type of player the HC wants. It's also good to have HC and "GM" be separate people so if one isn't doing his job well you can fire him without losing the other.

And just as long as Bob and Johnathan stay far away from player evaluations. I don't want a meddling owner.

 

[Pape]

Same thing happened with Patricia but yet they could run out when teams knew they would run

not sure what the entirety of the answer is BW... i would hazard a guess that the loss of both Jakobi Meyers (letting him walk infuriated me - we should have *overpaid* for him) & Stevenson had a lot to do with it. Meyers was a first down machine, and that aspect of his game had to be respected. Without him, easier to tee off on the backs? Combine that with the loss of Rham to injury and you might have a clearer picture of the why...

 

[Real fan 02]

Analytics said that JuJu was better than Jakobi because of YAC.

Belichick preferred Jakobi but our analytics people were convinced by JuJu instead.

We don't have a sports science or analytics department like most organizations have these days. That was true becuase of the YAC ability however Bill still called the shots! We saw early on that juju wasn't right physically.

 

[Pape]

Thank you @Pape. Very informative post!
I believe the organization will in fact designate someone as GM. I've personally said I believe it's Groh. The thing is as you know of course... Bill had the "ye" & " Ne" on all roster decisions. I don't believe the personnel people were going to challenge him or go against his opinion on players as he was the GOAT.

So with a more realistic collaboration, having sports science, analytical people involved will make a huge difference IMO.

However ...whatever the organization decides to do.. we need TALENT. If we can get the QB that helps this reset/rebuild tremendously. That is the GMs # priority!

people continually underestimate the analytics team the Patriots had in place for most of BBs tenure... The department was lead by Ernie Adams, and was highly effective... I believe that his retirement hurt this franchise. But there is an analytics department here.

I think this franchise has talent. But most of that talent should be relegated to the "depth" portion of the roster. What we need are 5 good starters. Not too far off the mark, but not there yet. Hope to add to the talent we do have this off season.

 

[festy1986]

This team hasn't had a GM since 1991. So it's not like having a front office without a GM title holder should be a surprise at this point.

Someone is the gm. Regardless of the title.

 

[festy1986]

So basically Kraft is in a hiring freeze because he's paying Bill 25 million to do nothing.

Got it.

 

[Pape]

Someone is the gm. Regardless of the title.

Then Matt Groh says Hi.

 

[upstater1]

We don't have a sports science or analytics department like most organizations have these days. That was true becuase of the YAC ability however Bill still called the shots! We saw early on that juju wasn't right physically.

Bill was pressured to relent on making final decisions so this is one of the ones he gave them

 

[Pape]

So basically Kraft is in a hiring freeze because he's paying Bill 25 million to do nothing.

Got it.

Is he still paying Bill? Has that been confirmed?

 

[Real fan 02]

Is he still paying Bill? Has that been confirmed?

Yes. He is. The remainder of his contract.

 

[Real fan 02]

Bill was pressured to relent on making final decisions so this is one of the ones he gave them

Could be true. However people in the organization still relented to Bill. The moves on FA all were Bill style moves.

 

[Pape]

Yes. He is. The remainder of his contract.

do you have a link to a report that confirms this?

I am under the impression that Belichick is not getting paid, that the contract is null & void by mutual agreement.

 

[archstanton543]

do you have a link to a report that confirms this?

I am under the impression that Belichick is not getting paid, that the contract is null & void by mutual agreement.

Coaches who get fired still get paid. Look at Judge and Patricia.

 

[upstater1]

Could be true. However people in the organization still relented to Bill. The moves on FA all were Bill style moves.

No, they weren't. That's the point. If you look at styles, Jakobi is much more of a Bill player than JuJu. JuJu is a flashy home-run hitter, Meyers is a move-the-sticks type.

 

[TommyD4207]

Yes. He is. The remainder of his contract.

I'm pretty sure he took a buyout so he could coach this year.

 

[festy1986]

Then Matt Groh says Hi.

Right. Which is a major problem because he's part of the yes men that brought us here.

Is he still paying Bill? Has that been confirmed?

Bill walked away from his money? Does that sound like something any reasonable person would do? He's dumber than I thought if he let Kraft parade him around in front of the media after his firing and didn't even get paid for it.