Brady vs. Belichick: The Final Poll

[venecol]

You might as well try and stop a tidal wave. As mentioned upstream, this topic will be around forever.

IMO in the ranking of all time idiotic moves by a Boston team, dumping Brady is #2. The Babe Ruth trade is #1 because it led to multiple titles and a spend to win policy that still exists for the Socks' biggest rival.

Brady's departure isn't as bad because it happened late in his career but it was also worse in the sense that Brady had built up a ton of cache and won a lot. He deserved to finish his career here.

The Orr loss was #3 because it was done by his crooked agent and not by the Bruins. It's still a bad move though.

Now, if this kind of response bothers you you might want to rethink coming to a thread with this title. What did you expect?

This is a very interesting discussion among former NFL players (some HOFers) about who was more important Tom or Bill. These guys make a lot of good points. Interesting to listen to Favre's take on the Belichick coaching style (he didn't mind it) which he experienced under Mangini. That **** don't work no more.

 

[amfootball]

How is this even a question??

Kraft's decision not to give Brady a measly 2 year deal at $50 mil total and hitch his wagon to Bill was the WORST decision in Boston sports history. Not only did Brady go on to win the SB and have 2 of the best years of his career with a loser franchise like TB, Bill literally imploded without him leaving the team in shambles and out of a job himself. I mean this is a slam dunk all the way round IMO.

 

[archstanton543]

How is this even a question??

Kraft's decision not to give Brady a measly 2 year deal at $50 mil total and hitch his wagon to Bill was the WORST decision in Boston sports history. Not only did Brady go on to win the SB and have 2 of the best years of his career with a loser franchise like TB, Bill literally imploded without him leaving the team in shambles and out of a job himself. I mean this is a slam dunk all the way round IMO.

Trading Babe Ruth was the worst decision in Boston Sports history.

 

[amfootball]

Trading Babe Ruth was the worst decision in Boston Sports history.

Not even close. No one knew the player Ruth would become. Brady had delivered the 6th ring when all of a sudden Bill decided he could not play anymore and would not offer him the 2 year deal.

 

[archstanton543]

Not even close. No one knew the player Ruth would become. Brady had delivered the 6th ring when all of a sudden Bill decided he could not play anymore and would not offer him the 2 year deal.

Disagree, heartily.

 

[amfootball]

Disagree, heartily.

That's fine BUT Brady played his entire career here and there were other elements to the Ruth trade given the era of baseball. The Patriots literally crapped the bed on the undeniably greatest player to have every played while he was still with the team.

I mean look at the way the Lakers treated Kobe at the end with his busted ankle or the Yankees with Jeter who was also on a busted ankle or the Sox with Ortiz given him deal after deal until finally he told them his feet were broken. Brady was not even injured or in any type of decline at all when Bill decided he wasn't worth a 2 year guaranteed deal. But look at Bill now. Karma is a *****, isn't it?

 

[Wozzy]

The rift isn't between Bill and Tom. It's between the fans and B&B for letting the GOAT QB go over nothing more than a few dollars. The fact that they had no plan in place for his departure and he won his 7th ring the very next season didn't help. And the team becoming a cellar dweller with Bill after Tom left made it even worse.

Fans are largely morons when it comes to NFL finances and team building.

There is a salary cap, and it plays heavily into how rosters are built. There was a cost associated with playing in four Super Bowls and winning three of them from 2014-2019, and Tom certainly did his part and showed extraordinary leadership by taking less money, by taking a series of one year incentive based extensions so the team could foot the cap bill the subsequent season.

This wasn't a case of BB being cheap, it was an agreed upon decision by the player and organization to manipulate the salary cap so they could build a hyper talented roster... and it worked. You don't play in 4 Super Bowls in 5 years unless you're really talented everywhere and the last time that happened was the early 2000"s when Tom was paid like a 6th round rookie... that wasn't coincidence.

Players have to sign contracts, they're not slaves, it's a two way street.

Tom insisted on becoming a free agent because the gas was leaving the tank in New England, because his wife wanted to live closer to home in Florida, and frankly he was probably burn't out. They offered him the best they could offer at the end and the deal sucked, the team was broke and the roster was aged out... there was zero money for veteran weapons and players.

Tom was a free agent, he chose to leave. Boiling this situation down to "BB let the GOAT leave over a few dollars" is nonsense... fans are largely clueless about the salary cap... it exists, it's real.

 

[archstanton543]

That's fine BUT Brady played his entire career here and there were other elements to the Ruth trade given the era of baseball. The Patriots literally crapped the bed on the undeniably greatest player to have every played while he was still with the team.

I mean look at the way the Lakers treated Kobe at the end with his busted ankle or the Yankees with Jeter who was also on a busted ankle or the Sox with Ortiz given him deal after deal until finally he told them his feet were broken. Brady was not even injured or in any type of decline at all when Bill decided he wasn't worth a 2 year guaranteed deal. But look at Bill now. Karma is a *****, isn't it?

He's not the only Boston superstar to leave and win elsewhere.

 

[amfootball]

He's not the only Boston superstar to leave and win elsewhere.

He's the only one with 6 rings in the toughest sport to even win one title. At least the Sox got compensated for Ruth. The Pats literally let the greatest player ever leave over a 2 year deal after he just delivered the 6th ring.

 

[catent]

That's fine BUT Brady played his entire career here and there were other elements to the Ruth trade given the era of baseball. The Patriots literally crapped the bed on the undeniably greatest player to have every played while he was still with the team.

I mean look at the way the Lakers treated Kobe at the end with his busted ankle or the Yankees with Jeter who was also on a busted ankle or the Sox with Ortiz given him deal after deal until finally he told them his feet were broken. Brady was not even injured or in any type of decline at all when Bill decided he wasn't worth a 2 year guaranteed deal. But look at Bill now. Karma is a *****, isn't it?

If karma is in fact real, I'd suggest you buckle up.

 

[Wozzy]

He's the only one with 6 rings in the toughest sport to even win one title. At least the Sox got compensated for Ruth. The Pats literally let the greatest player ever leave over a 2 year deal after he just delivered the 6th ring.

Let him leave... he chose to leave... smartly.

It's the "free" in free agent that the Brady zealots struggle with.

 

[amfootball]

If karma is in fact real, I'd suggest you buckle up.

Buckle up for what?

 

[Ross12]

I mean we can all join in the fun on every thread then if the obvious pathetic attempt to derail a thread is no longer an issue. Fair is fair, right?

****, you got me. Signing off in shame

 

[amfootball]

Let him leave... he chose to leave... smartly.

It's the "free" in free agent that the Brady zealots struggle with.

He wanted to stay. It has been well documented and reported what Brady was looking for to end his career a Patriot and they told him no.

 

[Wozzy]

He wanted to stay. It has been well documented and reported what Brady was looking for to end his career a Patriot and they told him no.

Garbage. By who... Wickersham?

Brady signed a new extension every year extending his stay in NE for another year. Players can negotiate, they can hold out if they don't like their contract, Tom had all the leverage, he was the best QB in the NFL. This notion that he was a slave is straight nonsense.

Moreover, sht changes... Giselle was done with the NFL and wanted a tropical climate. She didn't need the money or hassle.

 

[amfootball]

Garbage. By who... Wickersham?

Brady signed a new extension every year extending his stay in NE for another year. Players can negotiate, they can hold out if they don't like their contract, Tom had all the leverage, he was the best QB in the NFL. This notion that he was a slave is straight nonsense.

Moreover, sht changes... Giselle was done with the NFL and wanted a tropical climate. She didn't need the money or hassle.

Literally every reporter - local and national. He wanted a 2 year deal guaranteed. It was not offered. Why do you think he was so pissed when he went to Tampa? Why do you think his retirement picture was him on the sideline beating us in the rain?

Stop with the Giselle nonsense. The man said he was playing to 45 and he did just that.

 

[jdlboot14]

In hindsight, sure, the argument is valid.

If they promoted JMD to HC in 2020, keeping Brady and restocking the Offense, with the remaining asst. coaches like Scar, Fears, Caley...
And either promoting Mayo or Steve B. to DC then... Who knows, but it's hard to imagine a worse '20 season than we had with Cam.
And, having Brady for a couple more years would have allowed us to draft a QB in '21 to learn for a couple years (even if that was Mac).

Yes, I'd say it would have resulted in a better transition and more wins than we've had the last 2 years.

 

[Wozzy]

Literally every reporter - local and national. He wanted a 2 year deal guaranteed. It was not offered. Why do you think he was so pissed when he went to Tampa? Why do you think his retirement picture was him on the sideline beating us in the rain?

Stop with the Giselle nonsense. The man said he was playing to 45 and he did just that.

Every reporter rehashed what Wicker-sham was selling because it was juicy and salacious.

Tom wouldn't have signed the extensions if he didn't want to, at any point he could have put his foot down and stopped it. Him taking a series of extensions is what allowed them the flexibility to sign other great players and go all in.

Even if they signed him at the end and he agreed to stay, the team sucked, they had no cap space, their roster from the previous 4-5 years was made up of older vets who knew how to win so by 2019-2020 the team was toast.

All things end... move on.

 

[venecol]

How is this even a question??

Kraft's decision not to give Brady a measly 2 year deal at $50 mil total and hitch his wagon to Bill was the WORST decision in Boston sports history. Not only did Brady go on to win the SB and have 2 of the best years of his career with a loser franchise like TB, Bill literally imploded without him leaving the team in shambles and out of a job himself. I mean this is a slam dunk all the way round IMO.

I mean the poll is >70% YES, so yea pretty obvious how the forum feels about this now that people have FINALLY opened their eyes to Bill's utter incompetence in his latter years.

 

[Wozzy]

In hindsight, sure, the argument is valid.

If they promoted JMD to HC in 2020, keeping Brady and restocking the Offense, with the remaining asst. coaches like Scar, Fears, Caley...
And either promoting Mayo or Steve B. to DC then... Who knows, but it's hard to imagine a worse '20 season than we had with Cam.
And, having Brady for a couple more years would have allowed us to draft a QB in '21 to learn for a couple years (even if that was Mac).

Yes, I'd say it would have resulted in a better transition and more wins than we've had the last 2 years.

Restocking the offense... how? They entered the 2020 offseason with the 3rd most dead cap in the league.

Did we expect them to hit on 100% of their draft picks because Bill was gone... show me one team that successful in the draft. It's ridiculous.

Brady said he knew he was leaving in 2018 on the Howard Stern show, he wasn't staying.