Camp Battle at WR - Kenbrell Thompkins vs Josh Boyce

[supafly]

The problem is that I do not think you all realize how talented Gallon is and how productive he was at Michigan.

He is considered a top 10 steal of the draft by many draft experts, had record production in college, and athletically is superior to Amendola, Edelman, and Welker at their best.

I am not slighting Amendola, I am just looking at the broader picture, if we do not feel that Gallon will make it through waivers to the practice squad and view him as the future at the slot position it is significantly more cost effective to retain Gallon as the slot receiver behind Edelman than it is to retain Amendola.

Gallon
2014 – $431,898
2015 – $521,898
2016 – $611,898
2017 – $701,898

Amendola
2014 – $4,575,000
2015 – $5,700,000
2016 – $6,700,000
2017 – $7,700,000

I'm a big ten guy who watches Ohio State in every game, along with (obviously) the competition, so I do realize that Gallon is a decent player. That said, there are many aspects such as opportunities and ability to pick up the playbook that sets him back from the others at the moment.

I think we kind of go through this every year with the "up and coming" slot receiver in training camp. Last year it was TJ Moe, the year before it was Greg Salas. Hopefully, Gallon steps up and proves to be an elite talent in the pros, but I'll believe it when I see it--much like any other rookie attempting to make the leap from the NCAA level. As we know, sometimes a player can look rough in this system, but then go on to look good in another less complex offense.

There's a lot of time from now until the start of September, so I assume that there will be injuries and other aspects that narrow the number down as the days go on.

 

[supafly]

I am not saying we would give Amendola away, but a team like Arizona needs to replace Roberts, and they have Housler who fills a need here as a joker TE.

That's part of the problem in my opinion. I'm unsure of what the team would actually be able to get in trade value as it pertains to Danny Amendola. I think his stock is a bit low at the moment to consider a trade, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Ivan]

Unf.ckingbelievable

 

[Brady6]

That's part of the problem in my opinion. I'm unsure of what the team would actually be able to get in trade value as it pertains to Danny Amendola. I think his stock is a bit low at the moment to consider a trade, but that's just my opinion.

It is really dependent on his camp performance in my opinion. Truth be told I would move away from Thompkins who I am not very high on and go with –

X-WR – Dobson, LaFell
Z-WR – Edelman, Boyce
H-WR – Amendola, Gallon

I think that gives us a solid 1&2 for each of the 3 wide receiver positions, as well as some flexibility. I also think we could use Gallon or Edelman in the backfield with Vereen on third down situations.

 

[Brady6]

Unf.ckingbelievable

 

[supafly]

It is really dependent on his camp performance in my opinion. Truth be told I would move away from Thompkins who I am not very high on and go with –

X-WR – Dobson, LaFell
Z-WR – Edelman, Boyce
H-WR – Amendola, Gallon

I think that gives us a solid 1&2 for each of the 3 wide receiver positions, as well as some flexibility. I also think we could use Gallon or Edelman in the backfield with Vereen on third down situations.

Oh, believe me--I'm all for moving on from Thompkins to allow some better talent in the WR corps, but obviously these positional battles won't be determined until August.

I think the position is wide open at the moment after the locks of Amendola, Edelman, Slater, and Dobson. There could be anywhere from all 3 of Thompkins, Boyce, and Gallon that make it to only 1 of them. We also don't know the injury status of Dobson and how he's progressing just yet either.

 

[Brady6]

Oh, believe me--I'm all for moving on from Thompkins to allow some better talent in the WR corps, but obviously these positional battles won't be determined until August.

I think the position is wide open at the moment after the locks of Amendola, Edelman, Slater, and Dobson. There could be anywhere from all 3 of Thompkins, Boyce, and Gallon that make it to only 1 of them. We also don't know the injury status of Dobson and how he's progressing just yet either.

I have a hard time moving away from Boyce. From a talent perspective he is to the offense what Jamie Collins is to the defense. He is a freakish athlete, a bigger stronger Hilton or Cobb. I know he looked lost last season but that is not unusual for a rookie expecially one that missed OTAs and the beginning of camp.

I think it comes down to Gallon or Thompkins for the final spot if we keep 6 receivers. I would go with Gallon personally.

 

[patriot1136]

Stupid question, but what is meant by the 'H' receiver? I get the X and Y part

 

[patchick]

The problem is that I do not think you all realize how talented Gallon is and how productive he was at Michigan.

He is considered a top 10 steal of the draft by many draft experts, had record production in college, and athletically is superior to Amendola, Edelman, and Welker at their best.

That last bit is only true if you ignore short-area quickness, which is typically the FIRST set of measurables you'd look at in an undersized slot receiver. Gallon trails all three of the receivers you list on those scales. Notably:

GALLON
Short Shuttle: 4.26
3-Cone: 7.07
10-Yd Split: 1.56

EDELMAN
Short Shuttle: 3.92
3-Cone: 6.62
10-Yd Split: 1.52

 

[Ivan]

http://goingguderian.blogspot.com/2012/11/sphincter-tolerance.html

 

[SacPete1]

Based on the varying opinions, this looks to be one of the more interesting camp battles to watch.
I look for players with as much position flexibility when it comes to increased chances of making the roster. I'll be watching for guys performing on first unit special teams (returns and coverage) as opposed to 4th quarter performances in the preseason as an indicator of where the depth ranks.

 

[bigfandan]

Wouldn't be shocked if LaFell beat out Slater. We will miss his contributions on special teams, though.

It seems that we could really use that 6th WR spot that Slater occupies. If Galleon can produce a few 20+ yard catches (something he did often in Michigan), could that be worth more than the incremental value Slater brings over next replacement on special teams.

Just thinking about how we could try to move on from Slater. Could his ST play be picked up by the combination of speedy players at WRs (KT/Boyce/Gallon), RBs, DBs(Ryan, Harmon, Dennard) or LB (Anderson)? The reason is that our ST was average to begin with. It's not like we are going from #1 to #20 in ST without Slater; probably more like going from 20 to 25th. On the other hand, Galleon has proven ability to make big plays down field in high level D1 play (he had several 200 yard games last season), and that is something this offense could really use.

 

[Brady6]

Stupid question, but what is meant by the 'H' receiver? I get the X and Y part

Slot receiver.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

The numbers don't work to carry seven WRs, three QBs, three TEs, four RBs and ten OL. That's 27 guys on offense. Add three special teamers and you're at 30 leaving only 23 on defense.

10 OL is an interesting assumption, as I would expect 9 OL. If you count Slater as an ST, that's 25 guys on offense and 24 on D. That doesn't seem wrong, although with the injuries along the DL, we may need more depth there.

I think the most dynamic offense we can field would be –

QB – Brady
RB – Vereen
X-WR – Dobson
Z-WR – Boyce
Slot WR – Edelman
Y-TE – Gronkowski

I would mix LaFell in as a joker tight end, as well as backing up Dobson and Boyce. Amendola would backup Edelman in the slot.

With Boyce on the field you have a player with 4.3 speed that can stretch a defense out from that Z-WR position, Edelman and Amendola do not offer that when they lineup at the Z-WR.

I'd rather see LaFell than Boyce out there. Having a possession receiver like him making in/out cuts on the outside will help. He can also add some blocking prowess to help turn draws to Vereen and screen passes into bigger gains. We have playmakers in Edelman, Gronk, Dobson, and Vereen. I'd rather have a complementary player there than one other player who can best contribute on the odd plays where he gets the ball.

 

[Brady6]

That last bit is only true if you ignore short-area quickness, which is typically the FIRST set of measurables you'd look at in an undersized slot receiver. Gallon trails all three of the receivers you list on those scales. Notably:

GALLON
Short Shuttle: 4.26
3-Cone: 7.07
10-Yd Split: 1.56

EDELMAN
Short Shuttle: 3.92
3-Cone: 6.62
10-Yd Split: 1.52

That is very interesting, thank you for the information; I always overlook just how athletic Edelman is. Edelman is by far the best physical talent of the Edelman, Amendola, Welker, Gallon group.

Amendola
Height: 5104
Weight: 183
40 Yard Dash: 4.58
20 Yard Dash: 2.67
10 Yard Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 13
Vertical Jump: 27 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'07"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.25
3-Cone Drill: 6.81

Edelman
Height: 5103
Weight: 195
40 Yard Dash: 4.52
20 Yard Dash: 2.58
10 Yard Dash: 1.52
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 14
Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yard Shuttle: 3.92
3-Cone Drill: 6.62

Welker
Height: 5086
Weight: 195
40 Yard Dash: 4.65
20 Yard Dash:
10 Yard Dash:
225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump: 30
Broad Jump: 9'5"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01
3-Cone Drill: 7.09

Gallon
Height: 5074
Weight: 185
40 Yard Dash: 4.45
20 Yard Dash: 2.51
10 Yard Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 15
Vertical Jump: 39 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'10"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.26
3-Cone Drill: 7.07

 

[Brady6]

I'd rather see LaFell than Boyce out there. Having a possession receiver like him making in/out cuts on the outside will help. He can also add some blocking prowess to help turn draws to Vereen and screen passes into bigger gains. We have playmakers in Edelman, Gronk, Dobson, and Vereen. I'd rather have a complementary player there than one other player who can best contribute on the odd plays where he gets the ball.

I like the idea of having Boyce personally, he is so fast, he could do what TY Hilton does for the Colts and stretch the field. I would absolutely mix LaFell in as a WR and a flex TE as well, but I really like the explosiveness that Boyce gives the offense.

 

[Brady6]

http://goingguderian.blogspot.com/2012/11/sphincter-tolerance.html

 

[Ring 6]

It seems that we could really use that 6th WR spot that Slater occupies. If Galleon can produce a few 20+ yard catches (something he did often in Michigan), could that be worth more than the incremental value Slater brings over next replacement on special teams.

Just thinking about how we could try to move on from Slater. Could his ST play be picked up by the combination of speedy players at WRs (KT/Boyce/Gallon), RBs, DBs(Ryan, Harmon, Dennard) or LB (Anderson)? The reason is that our ST was average to begin with. It's not like we are going from #1 to #20 in ST without Slater; probably more like going from 20 to 25th. On the other hand, Galleon has proven ability to make big plays down field in high level D1 play (he had several 200 yard games last season), and that is something this offense could really use.

One is not several.
I don't think Gallon is the player you think he is. The majority of his big plays were screen passes.

 

[JackBauer]

It seems that we could really use that 6th WR spot that Slater occupies. If Galleon can produce a few 20+ yard catches (something he did often in Michigan), could that be worth more than the incremental value Slater brings over next replacement on special teams.

Just thinking about how we could try to move on from Slater. Could his ST play be picked up by the combination of speedy players at WRs (KT/Boyce/Gallon), RBs, DBs(Ryan, Harmon, Dennard) or LB (Anderson)? The reason is that our ST was average to begin with. It's not like we are going from #1 to #20 in ST without Slater; probably more like going from 20 to 25th. On the other hand, Galleon has proven ability to make big plays down field in high level D1 play (he had several 200 yard games last season), and that is something this offense could really use.

Slater doesn't represent incremental value over the next guy in line. Slater is a top 1-3 ST player in the league and a team captain. If the team keeps Gallon, it will because they are keeping seven receivers (though they'll only really be keeping six since Slater is only a receiver in name only).

 

[patfanken]

What I take from all these comments is that despite the clear lack of a "true #1 WR" (and who the F cares), the Pats WILL field a deeper more talented group than they've had in a long while, whether its 5 deep or 6 deep will be a question for Bill to determine. And one we will all watch with a lot of interest. But face it guys, its a question that isn't going to be answered until after Labor Day. That's a LONNNGGGG time to speculate on.

But since we are in the speculation business, here are mine.

1. Within 2 years Boyce will be a starting, productive, and effective WR for the Pats

2. Amendola will quiet the critics much like Edelman did last season

3. Gronk will play most of the season and will play in every playoff game

4. Brady's passing stats will be better across the board this season, and after the season Sam Monson will declare him "a QB on the rise"