Can We Win With An Entire New Coaching Staff?

[1960Pats]

Siz already clarified. So it was just something I thought of. Of course it's not real. Your right why would they give up Herbert for a 72 year old coach. Bill’s In a conundrum because he wants to be here. Not sure ownership feels the same way.

He won't have it his way in another organization.

I think Bill will have plenty of offers and there may already be something in the works.

None of us has any idea how the next coach will turn out but I'm in the same frame of mind as Bill the genius. I only want coaches I like to be the coach of my team.

 

[Ring 6]

You can't draft scared.

Why? How is it scared to trade a pick you would use on a guy who may or may not develop for a guy that has proven himself? The chance of that luck being as good as Herbert is probably about 10%.
You can draft stupid

 

[Ring 6]

Not being disingenuous. I guess my interpretation of what he is talking about is different than what you see or possibly what he meant. If I misunderstood then I am wrong.

The fact is Allen is a QB who makes makes stupid mistakes all the time because he tries to do too much because of the talent around him. He would be even mistake prone in the Patriots’ offense because he doesn’t have a Diggs who can consistently get open quickly.

This team would not be in the playoffs with Allen since the Bills are not in the playoffs with the Bills being a more talented team especially on offense. Allen might be having the worst year of his career since he emerged as a top QB because of the lack of talent on offense.

Are you honestly telling me you are a football who makes posts evaluating players and QBs and really never understood what “he can make all the throws” means?

 

[archstanton543]

Why? How is it scared to trade a pick you would use on a guy who may or may not develop for a guy that has proven himself? The chance of that luck being as good as Herbert is probably about 10%.
You can draft stupid

You identify the guy you want and get him. You can't be like "well, it's a 50/50 shot this guy works out...we shouldn't pursue him that hard".

Yes, you can draft stupid like McD picking what's-his-name in Denver. But that was almost universally seen as a bad move.

 

[Ring 6]

On average, a head coach in the NFL lasts 3-5 years without a playoff appearance. So, make of that what you will. Kraft said the goal was making it back to the playoffs. We're on year 3 and things are trending in the wrong direction.

First the claim was “hasn’t won a sb in 3 years” not hasn’t made the playoffs in 3-5 (won a sb 5 years ago, and has made the playoffs in 3 of the last 5 by the way).

The direction a team is trending in has to do with a lot more than w/l records. Progress isn’t linear. In this teams case 52 players are being held back by 1.

 

[Ring 6]

Bill I mean Andy, it's ok. Your making 25 million a year. I believe we are going in a different direction.

RK

You think you are Robert Kraft? Lol. About as delusional as your typical opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots haven’t won a playoff game since 2018. They have had a losing record three of the last four years. They are going to be one of the three worst teams in the NFL this year. Any other head coach and/or GM would been fired weeks ago.

Another HC/GM isn’t the greatest to ever do it.

 

[Ring 6]

I RK ask BB of the NEP for his resignation.

Signed on ground round napkin

RK

It amazes me that the guy who built the organization that you claim to be a fan of into the greatest dynasty in the history of the sport is the guy you run around with an agenda to rip at every opportunity.

 

[Ring 6]

You identify the guy you want and get him. You can't be like "well, it's a 50/50 shot this guy works out...we shouldn't pursue him that hard".

Yes, you can draft stupid like McD picking what's-his-name in Denver. But that was almost universally seen as a bad move.

So in other words if you were the Chargers you would dump Herbert for the opportunity to pick your best bet out of 50/50 shots?

 

[archstanton543]

First the claim was “hasn’t won a sb in 3 years” not hasn’t made the playoffs in 3-5 (won a sb 5 years ago, and has made the playoffs in 3 of the last 5 by the way).

The direction a team is trending in has to do with a lot more than w/l records. Progress isn’t linear. In this teams case 52 players are being held back by 1.

Can't win the Super Bowl without making the playoffs.

 

[archstanton543]

So in other words if you were the Chargers you would dump Herbert for the opportunity to pick your best bet out of 50/50 shots?

I don't know. From what I can tell, the Chargers are a poorly run organization so who knows what they'll do. If they want to trade Herbert and take that pick and go after a guy they really want, so be it. That's life in the NFL.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know. From what I can tell, the Chargers are a poorly run organization so who knows what they'll do. If they want to trade Herbert and take that pick and go after a guy they really want, so be it. That's life in the NFL.

I am talking about what you think.
If you think three Patriots would be better with an unproven draft pick than Herbert then logically you think the chargers would be smart to trade Herbert for the pick.
How about Allen? Mahomes? Is the draft pick more valuable than them in your view?

 

[Ring 6]

Can't win the Super Bowl without making the playoffs.

14 out of 32 teams make the playoffs. 1 wins the SB.

 

[archstanton543]

I am talking about what you think.
If you think three Patriots would be better with an unproven draft pick than Herbert then logically you think the chargers would be smart to trade Herbert for the pick.
How about Allen? Mahomes? Is the draft pick more valuable than them in your view?

They're not trading for Allen or Mahomes...unless they're going to trade all their firsts for the next 5 years.

As I said before, Herbert is going to be on his rookie deal for another year...two if they pick up his extra year. Then he's gong to want to get paid. Is he the right guy for BB's system? A system that does not value offensive talent (other than at G and RB for some reason). If BB's here will the next guy value the offensive side of the ball? Will Herbert be the guy to fit his system?

What will be the Chargers be asking for Herbert? You can't trade BB for a player. Coaches can only be traded for picks and cash. They're going to have a very high draft pick. They should identify which of the top QB prospects they like and then draft him.

 

[BTTA]

You gotta use the "/sarcasm" tag, my man.

The entertainment inherent in sarcasm is ruined by the /s tag. The whole point is to get people to do a double take, have to think about it, then get it, and grin.

 

[Ring 6]

They're not trading for Allen or Mahomes...unless they're going to trade all their firsts for the next 5 years.

As I said before, Herbert is going to be on his rookie deal for another year...two if they pick up his extra year. Then he's gong to want to get paid. Is he the right guy for BB's system? A system that does not value offensive talent (other than at G and RB for some reason). If BB's here will the next guy value the offensive side of the ball? Will Herbert be the guy to fit his system?

What will be the Chargers be asking for Herbert? You can't trade BB for a player. Coaches can only be traded for picks and cash. They're going to have a very high draft pick. They should identify which of the top QB prospects they like and then draft him.

I get that you feel required to trash bb in every post, but this discussion was about whether it would be a smart move to trade the first round pick you are going to use on a QB for an established good QB.
what they are asking in this discussion is the number 1 pick, in other words would you rather have a guy who has historically about a 50/50 shot of even being any good or a guy who had already proven he is good. I cannot possibly fathom the logic in that.
It’s as if you are saying you want to buy lottery tickets with your 401k and the prize is likely to be less than you already have.

 

[Real fan 02]

It amazes me that the guy who built the organization that you claim to be a fan of into the greatest dynasty in the history of the sport is the guy you run around with an agenda to rip at every opportunity.

You can't seem to separate Bill the GM from Bill the coach. Once you are able to do that you will come to realize like I have. He's absolutely the best in the business as a coach not an executive. I can respect someone, but also realize that no one is perfect in everything they do.

 

[Real fan 02]

Slight caveat is that with the Chargers’ owners, anything stupid is possible. But a team with any brains wouldn’t trade Herbert for Belichick. But even Spanos isn’t that stupid.

Personally, I doubt the Pats will get much for Belichick. Belichick has the leverage and he isn’t going to go to just any team and he doesn’t want to give up draft capital. My guess is that Kraft, Belichick, and Belichick‘s new team will negotiate a trade package that Kraft can save face and claim he got something for Belichick, but the team receiving Belichick won’t lose a high draft pick. Maybe a third or a fourth.

Agreed! Great points. Unless Kraft all together just decides to pay bill out his contract and let him be free. Curran reported that bill wants to be here. We'll hey we all want the powerball too!

 

[Hyped]

"Careful what you wish for" <-- This is where I am at.

Don't think cleaning house will mean a better draft or a better coached team
for 2024, BUT....could be better for 2025 and onwards. For example, our scouts are almost done...and will turn in all of their final grades in the coming months. So, even if we clean house...the new GM will be using our scouting reports before cleaning house after the draft. And our current players would not have the roster security in 2024 that they now have...could lead to some UFA losses and practice squad guys walking...etc...

Tough call.

 

[Real fan 02]

"Careful what you wish for" <-- This is where I am at.

Don't think cleaning house will mean a better draft or a better coached team
for 2024, BUT....could be better for 2025 and onwards. For example, our scouts are almost done...and will turn in all of their final grades in the coming months. So, even if we clean house...the new GM will be using our scouting reports before cleaning house after the draft. And our current players would not have the roster security in 2024 that they now have...could lead to some UFA losses and practice squad guys walking...etc...

Tough call.

Totally fair statement. that if what I believe will happen a mutually agreed partting. I think That the GM is already in house. I believe it's Matt Groh. The scouts are pretty much part of the organization anyway. The more pressing issue is all the expiring contracts. Who will be extended? Who will not? I wanted Bill to show that he could win post brady. 2021 gave hope he could. However. ... Since then....