Christian Barmore

[JohnJH]

Barmore is one of the few I would say is a “must keep”.

Judon, Gonzalez and Barmore are the best three players on the defense.

You're right on all three players. However, I would trade Judon for whatever I could get (a contender would find him a useful piece). We need to start acquiring younger Edge/OLB's. And, he's going to want a hefty pay increase for next season. Might as well pay as much or a bit more for someone younger who could be around for at least the next 4-5 seasons (while we hopefully keep the talent pipeline flowing behind such an acquired player. Judon has been a stud though, and I loved what he's done, but I was leery of his age when we signed him.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Barmore is one of the few I would say is a “must keep”.

Judon, Gonzalez and Barmore are the best three players on the defense.

I'd add in Dugger and make it a foursome to keep

 

[50-yard-line]

I'd add in Dugger and make it a foursome to keep

I’ll add Peppers. He’s been a leader.

 

[Real fan 02]

For me, hes the #1 guy on the extension-is-a-must list

If Bill was still going to be..here. I wouldn't feel good about Beastmore being extended while on his rookie deal. Since he's not.. I feel good about him being a core part of the reset 2024 and beyond.

 

[JohnJH]

I’ll add Peppers. He’s been a leader.

If I could only keep one (Dugger or Peppers), I'd keep Peppers. I wouldn't come even remotely close to "Breaking The Bank" for Dugger (especially considering that perhaps Mapu can play "In the Box" Safety.

 

[JohnJH]

For me, hes the #1 guy on the extension-is-a-must list

I really do like Barmore very much, and his best football could hopefully be ahead of him. But, I do have injury concerns with him (even though he has been showing up to play. By the way, one of the D Linemen that I really like in the next draft is Maason Smith. He's 6'6 and 315. He could be an awesome addition to the D Line if he can make the transition to the NFL. I would definitely draft him if our more pressing needs are addressed. He give us a potential stud with Barmore, and could possibly play all 3 positions in a 3-4 and DT in a 4-3. Would also add much needed youth and depth while he develops.

 

[JohnJH]

They need to keep Onwenu and Barmore, period. Good tackles and disruptive IDL are worth every penny.

Of all the guys they have coming off rookie deals in the next two years, these two are priority 1a and 1b. As much as I love Dugger and am warming up to Jennings, there's not a close third.

I would keep Jennings over Dugger (we have Peppers and perhaps Mapu at SS). I would keep Onwenu only if it doesn't break the bank, as he would be solid with more talent around him on the O Line.

 

[n6249c]

For me, hes the #1 guy on the extension-is-a-must list

If Bill was still going to be..here. I wouldn't feel good about Beastmore being extended while on his rookie deal. Since he's not.. I feel good about him being a core part of the reset 2024 and beyond.

WTF? Your hatred of Bill is so extreme you’d dump a good player if Bill were still here but keep him if Bill’s gone? That is just crazy!

or did you somehow express yourself so I misunderstood what you meant?

seriously, what are you trying to say?

 

[upstater1]

Bill did his usual 11th hour offer to try to bring him back, but he had already made up his mind and took the Chiefs offer.

The big problem was that we gave Mason a huge contract prior to Thuney.

 

[upstater1]

I would keep Jennings over Dugger (we have Peppers and perhaps Mapu at SS). I would keep Onwenu only if it doesn't break the bank, as he would be solid with more talent around him on the O Line.

It all depends on who the coach is. If it's Belichick you keep all 3.

Peppers has been resurrected in New England but that's because of the specific defense we're playing. In another type of defense, all 3 players are miscast: Peppers, Dugger, Mapu.

We're clearly looking to get by with 3-4 linemen, 2 linebackers, 2-3 safeties, 2-3 CBs.

All 3 of these safeties excel with speed and tackling, but their coverage skills leave something to be desired. They are all dynamic and create turnovers. But they can be exploited if you're expecting them to do what other safeties do. They are more like fast linebackers.

If Belichick is back, you sign Dugger. I don't see why we wouldn't keep Onwenu, Dugger and Jennings, we can afford it; and also extend Barmore. They can let Uche go to market.

 

[Real fan 02]

WTF? Your hatred of Bill is so extreme you’d dump a good player if Bill were still here but keep him if Bill’s gone? That is just crazy!

or did you somehow express yourself so I misunderstood what you meant?

seriously, what are you trying to say?

You misunderstood what I was saying. Also I have noooooo hatred of Bill. I will critique Bill the GM at times as we all have. I want you to watch the Jules podcast on how he was intimately talking about how Bill treated him and other players when it came to contract extension, talks ect. Please don't wreck your brain. The point being that Jules eluded to how Bill uses injuries against a player when it comes time to get $$$.

Barmore has been injured, Bill drafted him with Injury history from Bama.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I really do like Barmore very much, and his best football could hopefully be ahead of him. But, I do have injury concerns with him (even though he has been showing up to play. By the way, one of the D Linemen that I really like in the next draft is Maason Smith. He's 6'6 and 315. He could be an awesome addition to the D Line if he can make the transition to the NFL. I would definitely draft him if our more pressing needs are addressed. He give us a potential stud with Barmore, and could possibly play all 3 positions in a 3-4 and DT in a 4-3. Would also add much needed youth and depth while he develops.

For me it all starts on the d-line. Guys who can collapse the pocket, apply pressure AND stop the run are keepers.

I have minor concerns about his durability but I think he's turned the corner

 

[RobertWeathers]

WTF? Your hatred of Bill is so extreme you’d dump a good player if Bill were still here but keep him if Bill’s gone? That is just crazy!

or did you somehow express yourself so I misunderstood what you meant?

seriously, what are you trying to say?

Yea I left that response alone...

 

[n6249c]

You misunderstood what I was saying. Also I have noooooo hatred of Bill. I will critique Bill the GM at times as we all have. I want you to watch the Jules podcast on how he was intimately talking about how Bill treated him and other players when it came to contract extension, talks ect. Please don't wreck your brain. The point being that Jules eluded to how Bill uses injuries against a player when it comes time to get $$$.

Barmore has been injured, Bill drafted him with Injury history from Bama.

Ok, but I still don’t see how that leads to not wanting Barmore extended if Bill’s still here. Barmore is good. We should want the best players we can get for the team regardless of who is coaching, right? So doesn’t that mean we should want Barmore extended?

 

[n6249c]

… I want you to watch the Jules podcast on how he was intimately talking about how Bill treated him and other players when it came to contract extension, talks ect. Please don't wreck your brain. The point being that Jules eluded to how Bill uses injuries against a player when it comes time to get $$$.

Barmore has been injured, Bill drafted him with Injury history from Bama.

This hits something I think is a previously undiscussed conflict between the roles of HC and GM. I’ve been thinking about this for awhile, but hesitant to voice it because I know the Bill haters will twist it to blame him for something that is inherent in the nature of things.

Bill’s job as GM is to get the best roster for the team on the most advantageous terms for the team. That means playing hardball in contract negotiations. It naturally pits him in an adversarial relationship with the player and his agent. It also requires him to weigh the interests of one player against those of other players in salary cap allocation, and to make decisions beneficial to one at the expense of others.

Bill’s job as HC is to get the best performance from each player for the team, and to get all the roster playing together harmoniously. He has to develop a positive locker room chemistry, between himself and each player and also amongst all the players. And he has to do this despite his role as GM being more adversarial with the players.

I‘ve been trying to think of ways to reallocate some of his duties, while still giving him authority over selecting the players he will be working with, but it’s not an easy tradeoff. I’ve got some ideas, maybe Jonathan taking a role in this, but not time to expound on them now, plus I’d like to hear from others about whether this is really a significant issue. What do you think?

 

[Real fan 02]

Ok, but I still don’t see how that leads to not wanting Barmore extended if Bill’s still here. Barmore is good. We should want the best players we can get for the team regardless of who is coaching, right? So doesn’t that mean we should want Barmore extended?

We are in agreement. I'm just simply stating Bill tends to play hard Bill when it comes to paying guys. Hell he didn't want to give GOAT a contract, the GOAT!! Of course we should want him extended he has been awesome! He stepped his game up this season now that he's been healthier.

 

[Real fan 02]

This hits something I think is a previously undiscussed conflict between the roles of HC and GM. I’ve been thinking about this for awhile, but hesitant to voice it because I know the Bill haters will twist it to blame him for something that is inherent in the nature of things.

Bill’s job as GM is to get the best roster for the team on the most advantageous terms for the team. That means playing hardball in contract negotiations. It naturally pits him in an adversarial relationship with the player and his agent. It also requires him to weigh the interests of one player against those of other players in salary cap allocation, and to make decisions beneficial to one at the expense of others.

Bill’s job as HC is to get the best performance from each player for the team, and to get all the roster playing together harmoniously. He has to develop a positive locker room chemistry, between himself and each player and also amongst all the players. And he has to do this despite his role as GM being more adversarial with the players.

I‘ve been trying to think of ways to reallocate some of his duties, while still giving him authority over selecting the players he will be working with, but it’s not an easy tradeoff. I’ve got some ideas, maybe Jonathan taking a role in this, but not time to expound on them now, plus I’d like to hear from others about whether this is really a significant issue. What do you think?

Your correct, I will critique Bill but me as as fan I have no hatred whatsoever he's the GOAT of HCs hand down. However yes it puts him in an adverse role with the players. Ty law has mentioned this also. But he said he still respects Bill. Gilly said the same exact things.

Kraft has spoken and said many times he gives Bill the autonomy to do as he saw fit As he has earned the right to do so.

From the reports, the herald and Curran. Last season is where his GM roster/coaching decisions irritated ownership. Last season is where things went wrong. If this is it. Wich it feels like it is. I'm forever as a fan greatful for what Bill did for us in New England.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yea I left that response alone...

I clarified My post..

 

[upstater1]

If Bill was still going to be..here. I wouldn't feel good about Beastmore being extended while on his rookie deal. Since he's not.. I feel good about him being a core part of the reset 2024 and beyond.

You'll find many more examples of top players signing second contracts than not.

Extended: Seymour, Warren, Mayo, Brady, Light, Mankins, Koppen, Wilfork, Mayo, Vollmer, Edelman, McCourty, Gronk, Solder, Cannon, Hightower, Harmon, Ryan, James White, Shaq Mason, Bentley

Not extended: Branch, Thuney, Samuel, Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, Trey Flowers

21 top Patriot players have signed 2nd contracts.
Only 6 haven't.

Of the 6, we really only messed up on 3 of them: Branch, Thuney and Chandler Jones (although that's debatable since this guy is so far out of his mind).

 

[n6249c]

You'll find many more examples of top players signing second contracts than not.

Extended: Seymour, Warren, Mayo, Brady, Light, Mankins, Koppen, Wilfork, Mayo, Vollmer, Edelman, McCourty, Gronk, Solder, Cannon, Hightower, Harmon, Ryan, James White, Shaq Mason, Bentley

Not extended: Branch, Thuney, Samuel, Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, Trey Flowers

21 top Patriot players have signed 2nd contracts.
Only 6 haven't.

Of the 6, we really only messed up on 3 of them: Branch, Thuney and Chandler Jones (although that's debatable since this guy is so far out of his mind).

And then Branch came back home later.