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Instant Reaction: Your Patriots 2023 Draft Grade


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Asking for your support
 

How do you grade the Patriots 2023 draft?

  • A: Great

    Votes: 45 23.2%
  • B: Solid but unspectacular

    Votes: 90 46.4%
  • C: Meh it's Mid

    Votes: 29 14.9%
  • D: Poor, BB has gone off the reservation again!

    Votes: 11 5.7%
  • F: Someone walk me off the ledge, I'm about to jump!

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • RLKAG

    Votes: 16 8.2%

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
If

that is the issue for me... lately our choice of kickers has been less than stellar

and that's a high cost for a kicker imo
So, for you Folk has been terrible?
 
Let's try again.
1) We have Rham.
2) Belichick looked at the backups, and signed Robinson.
3) We have Strong under contract. He showed little in 2022.
4) Harris showed much less in 2022, as expected by most of us.
5) There will be many running backs available during camp and after.

MY CONCLUSIONS
A) Strong or Harris will be competing, with Strong as the favorite.
B) Montgomery is a utility player and special teamer who is much more favored than a #3 thumper. If healthy, he will make the 53.
C) If Montgomery can't play, I see us looking to the waiver wire for someone to compete with Strong and Harris, and at very worst end up on the Practice Squad. Montgomery is NOT part of the future. He is older, veteran special teamer, a type of player favored by Belichick.

BOTTOM LINE
I STRONGLY prefer Montogmery on the 53, and Harris on the Practice Squad.
Your opinion and mine are not very different. BB loves guys with experience. He also says and does "better to move on from a player a year early than a year too late".

Damien Harris's rookie year was no more promising than Strongs.

The ST was poor last year in part because of injury (Montgomery, Davis), and losses of key players not fully replaced (King, Bolden). Change is in the air. K & P almost for sure will be new, and others from this draft/UDFA/FA. Slater near the end - he seems like a guy that if he decides he can't do it, won't need a tap on the shoulder. I'd bet either Montgomery or Davis will be cut, or end up on IR/injury settlement this year. BB is mortified by the ST's performance last year, he won't be again.
 
So, for you Folk has been terrible?
has Folk been a terrible kicker? no, he hasn't... I like Nick Folk, despite his glaring shortcomings... a short coming that i believe lead to the aggravation of the injury our former pro bowl punter suffered from - Him not being able to make his kickoffs is not a good position for us to be in...

but overall I could have been more specific in reference to the kickers - Nordin, Vizcaino & Rohrwasser - all young guys we have brought in to replace Folk that have been either injured and cant play so they are useless or just not good aka bad... all have had similar scouting profiles to Ryland... and then there were a few other veterans we've also brought in, but cant remember exactly who... think Kai Forbath was one, but dont quote me...

we might have been better off keeping Younghoe Kim over Nick Folk in the long run...
 
I am confused, not trying to be a ****. They went out and got a good kicker, depending on who is ranking them, that was ranked 1-4th. Like you guys, I don't like the slot, but they liked him, a position of need, and had no dance partners to trade back (so the reports go), so they took him. The whole middle of the draft is low risk interior linemen. Tells me they hated this draft class in the middle rounds. Anyway.. I am off on a tangent. You guys both admit kicking is important, yet you give them an F here? Just because of the slot?
I saw lists where Ryland was as high as two... never saw him in the pole position... there there were lists where he wasn't even mentioned among 7 or 8 guys... so who's to say if he is good or not ... please know, I will GLADLY eat crow over this if i am wrong... I want him to do well.

The issue i have with it is this... That fourth round pick could have been better spent... Why wasnt it used to move up to a higher round to get a better skill position player... I gladly would have sacrificed a 4th to move up (like Josh did) to snag Michael Mayer... or whoever tickled your fancy in the draft...
 
If

that is the issue for me... lately our choice of kickers has been less than stellar

and that's a high cost for a kicker imo

It's a high cost if he doesn't work out. But if he's a good kicker for a decade, it's ok to spend a 4th/6th for him.

Most of those picks are busts. They have almost as much success bringing in UFA's as they do with middle round picks.
 
If

that is the issue for me... lately our choice of kickers has been less than stellar

and that's a high cost for a kicker imo
Based on one bad pick in 2020. Ok.
 
I'm not big on grades. If I don't like a prospect I'll tell you why and be specific. If I like a prospect I'll tell you why and be specific.

The draft is a crapshoot, there's a thousand things that could go wrong that could derail a guy's career, some within their power to change and some completely out of it. A player has a debilitating car crash that nearly takes his life, a cancer or illness diagnosis, or even an injury to his neck, back, or wheels that can't be recovered from.... years from now it will be remembered as a bad draft pick or a "bust" but very often it wasn't... it just had a bad result. Other players like some famous high round WR's we brought in failed on their own accord, those were bad draft picks in hindsight... it wasn't because they lacked the athleticism to be great... they lacked the will, smarts or mental toughness. That was a true bust. There's no way to measure this, if there were... the draft would be a mistake free process and filtering out bad players would be simple.

Everything I write below is based on a draft prospect... the name describes them perfectly... prospect. Any player comparisons are comparison in body and athleticism alone. I'm not saying player x is Randy Moss, I'm saying they're tall, long and fast like Moss. We use player comparisons because that's all we have... don't be a douche in your response and say "Wozzy said Christian Gonzalez was Deion Sanders or Gilmore" because that's not what I said, I compared a 6'1" CB to a similar sized and similarly athletic player from the past for context. What that player does with that athleticism is usually up to them, it takes more than being a great athlete.

1-17 CB Christian Gonzalez:

The criticism that keeps floating around him is he doesn’t hit, that he might not be tough enough. That’s not what I see. Sure, there’s players like Ty Law and prospects like Devon Witherspoon who arrive in run support like a freight train and lay the hardest hit they can. CG doesn’t do that, but he doesn’t miss many tackles either. He uses his athleticism to make the easy tackle. He upends a big TE by submarining their ankles, he grabs a WR by the foot and lifts him off the ground… low impact tackles yes, but sure tackling nonetheless. There have been wildly successful players like this before, Deion Sanders the most famous, but Eric Allen and Stephon Gilmore weren’t high impact hitters either. These guys health and not getting concussed for the next play was more important than sending a message on a single hit. They cover opponents like a paint job so you live with it. They control one side of the field or take the opponents biggest tallest stud WR out of the game. I didn’t think he’d be there at 14, anywhere beyond that was gold.

2-46 DE Keion White:

He’s a defensive end with outside linebacker athleticism, that’s why he was worth a 2nd round pick. Guy’s a no-nonsense player, he didn’t crack a smile on draft night… I question whether he smiles at all. Deatrich Wise size, Trey Flowers strength, Chris Slade speed… it’s a good combination on the edge.

3-76 SS Marte Mapu:

Who? There will always be small school guys who nobody but scouts know. These guys get invited to the Senior or Shrine Bowls or some other camp and it quickly becomes clear playing against the best of the best from college who belongs and who doesn’t. Yes, Duggar will be a free agent next year, but so will Peppers who only signed a one-year deal. This pick was made in preparation for next offseason, they can possibly afford to sign one of those guys, but probably not both.

4-107 C Jake Andrews:

Good athlete, productive career, strong… they need a center so that means they need someone on the bench that can play there as well. It’s not just David Andrews (31 in 23’) who is long in tooth, James Ferentz will be 33 years old. That means the Pats need two centers, Russey and Andrews… let the best man win the starting job.

4-112 K Chad Ryland:

Booming leg, accurate from distance, good in cold weather, his holder at the Senior Bowl where they both shined is also the Pat’s new punter. Belichick went off script Saturday and did something an NFL team hadn't in 30 years; selecting a kicker and a punter in the same draft.

4-117 G/T Sidy Sow:

At 6-5 323 he has some real size to him, and among the three rookies he also has the most length. His 81” wingspan and 33 5/8’s arms are decent, if he was a good athlete, he could possibly relearn OT which he played as a true freshman. He is a good athlete. His 32” vertical leap is the highest among offensive linemen on the Patriots, he has good speed, agility and strength. Add that all together and he reminds me a little of Marcus Cannon once he lost some weight. Probably should and will play guard, but possibly might be able to play at RT because he’s a dancing bear.

5-144 G Atonio Mafi:

Massive guard (6-3, 329) with no measurables, but looks mean and athletic on tape. Hard to judge without knowing but he sure pancakes a lot of players at a high level of college competition.

6-187 WR Kayshon Boutte:

Maybe his foot was broken at his pro day, maybe not. He was slow, not agile, not explosive, not anything except a headcase according to his reputation. No talent and a bad reputation won’t last for a second in Foxboro, so unless the Pats have some medical knowledge the rest don’t this was probably a wasted pick.

6-192 P Bryce Baringer:

"Former Michigan State football punter Bryce Baringer has launched his NFL stock into the stratosphere at the Combine. A few short months ago, Michigan State football fans were incensed at the fact that Bryce Baringer was passed up for the Ray Guy Award. Adam Korsak from Rutgers was able to win the award over Baringer which didn’t make much sense because the latter was named Big Ten Punter of the Year. How could the Big Ten’s best punter finish second for the Ray Guy Award behind another Big Ten punter? It made no sense. Snub would be the perfect term to use regarding this situation and it seems to have only motivated Baringer to get even better. Baringer was the special teams practice player of the week at the Reese’s Senior Bowl and he was invited to the NFL Combine this week. And he showed out in a big way. According to some results from the combine workouts, Baringer was the best punter of the day with both incredible hangtimes and impressive leg strength. He dominated the rest of the punters. The Michigan State football star led all punters in terms of average punt distance and hangtime which is impressive when you consider just how far his punts are traveling in the air. He averaged over seven more yards and 0.7 more seconds of hangtime than the Ray Guy Award winner on open field punts. He also dominated the direction punts category with over 50 yards per punt and over 5.0 seconds of hangtime. And his pooch/pin punts had the most hangtime by a wide margin. If you’re an NFL team looking for a punter of the future, Baringer seems to be that guy. He’s dominating all of the workouts and drills and he’s proving just why he may have been the biggest awards snub of the year. Baringer will be playing on Sundays next year."

www.yardbarker.com/college_football/articles/michigan_state_football_bryce_baringer_dominates_at_nfl_combine/s1_17162_38539809

6-210 WR Demario Douglas:

At 5-8, 180 pounds he has to get stronger, he’s similar to Wan’Dale Robinson and Calvin Austin drafted last year, similar sized to Josh Downs, Tank Dell, Derius Davis, Zay Flowers this year. Short, small but fast (4.4) and explosive. His agility is not as amazing as some of these guys, but it’s still good. He’s as explosive as any of them, maybe more. His vertical was tied 3rd highest among WR’s at the combine, his broad jump sat alone at 2nd best, 4th best among all positions at the combine. He catches well, finds soft spots in zone, has some escape ability and excels at stop and go routes. He returns kicks and punts and plays special teams, he’ll play anywhere. The coaching staff handled him at the Shrine Bowl, they have firsthand knowledge of his skillset and smarts. That gives me a small sense of confidence.

6-214 CB Ameer Speed:

You know that guy that has prototypical height (6-2, 209), weight, speed (4.3), mobility (6.99/4.26 cone/shuttle) to be a big tall NFL CB… but has no explosion? That’s this kid, he has all the tools but is always a step behind in coverage. He’s not fluid, he looks like he’s fighting the turf when he runs, choppy, the opposite of Gonzalez who glides. This guy is watching the receiver catch the ball, and making the tackle. He needs to improve his agility by improving his efficiency of movement, take fewer steps and loosen up... I’d suggest meditation and plyometrics. One thing about having the talent, he could take coaching and improve, or learn to play well facing the offense at safety if he’s a smart and sure tackler. The talent is there, that's more than most of the prospects who fail have.

7-245 CB Isaiah Bolden:

What would a player look like if he could play gunner like Brandon King, but also return kicks… perhaps really well? With safety size (6-3, 210), 4.3 forty is really fast, he’s explosive. His agility is terrible and we’ll probably never see him on defense, but wouldn’t you rather have a gunner who could possibly take kickoffs to the house rather than fade into the background like special team’s players otherwise do? It could take some of the burden off Marcus Jones and spread it around to fresh legs. He’s a long shot to make the roster unless he’s a special team’s ace, so he’d better become a special team’s ace.
 
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I saw lists where Ryland was as high as two... never saw him in the pole position... there there were lists where he wasn't even mentioned among 7 or 8 guys... so who's to say if he is good or not ... please know, I will GLADLY eat crow over this if i am wrong... I want him to do well.

The issue i have with it is this... That fourth round pick could have been better spent... Why wasnt it used to move up to a higher round to get a better skill position player... I gladly would have sacrificed a 4th to move up (like Josh did) to snag Michael Mayer... or whoever tickled your fancy in the draft...
I would have loved Mayer, but he went in R2, and I have zero issue with the White pick. There's no one in the 4th that sticks out to me that I say why couldn't we have that guy? I would have liked Mauch, Schoonmaker or Mims in R2 later than the White pick, so that's where they needed to move up to. The R3 Mapu pick is the one I scratch my head at. Feel like Bill being Bill again, showing us he's smarter than everyone by taking a small school guy, while Downs was still there, as was Washington and Jordan Battle. R4? Dawand Jones instead of Andrews, who likely would have been there at 112, and then ok with Sidy Sow where he was. Then Ryland in R5 instead of Mafi. All this is with the benefit of hindsight, so who the hell knows what goes on. I guess my beef with them was they didn't move up into the end of R2 to get another starter. I have to assume the price was too high to go up to the end of R2, so they end up with safe IOL picks in 4-5 with a kicker because there was no value in R4, and everyone in the NFL knew it, so the R4 picks were not of any value to trade up.

I am confident that the kicker will pan out. It's the Mapu pick that, IMO, will make the draft either good because of 1-2, or great, because then they hit on the first 3. Even if he's (Mapu) a bust, Gonzalez and White look like good picks, and Baringer is a big asset on 4th down. If one of the WRs pans out, Speed makes it as a STer and who the hell knows with Bolden the Younger, the second of his name, (see what I did there?) then this will be an excellent draft. Big IF, just like the other 31 teams.
 
thanks for the reply... I saw the team needs as OT, WR, TE. DB, LB/E, DT, K/P

don't want a nem like exchange either... just wanted to know why...

i didn't do a ton of research, not like i used to... but then, hardly anyone does... Was I "clowning myself"? nah... that was me just being honest about it, unlike most who will try to pass themselves off as experts... bcg most here are not, so why pretend to be?

I did watch some of the guys after they were selected, but honestly, is ten minutes of watching youtube and twitter highlights really a good look at a player? No, its not, and thats what a lot of people use in their grading assessments... I tried to do something a bit different... guess it didnt work as well as i thought...

the break down was a generalized assessment of the overall draft versus what I thought our needs were and are... doesn't make me right, or wrong... I thought we needed an OT, we didn't get one... not one... That's a failure on our part... But I also thought we needed an edge, and/or a linebacker - Good picks imo, even without me knowing a ton (or anything) about each player... why would I know anything about Keion White? I've never watched a GT game in my life... and be honest how many times did you hear the name Keion White on the boards prior to the draft? Maybe once i'd be willing to wager... But I liked the addition of the positional player... Thats not a contradiction... and I thought we gave up way too much to move up and draft a kicker and that's a fail imo... chances are we could have gotten a kicker after the draft...

The post was a bit sloppyily written, i agree... really wasnt trying to do a this guy gets A that guy gets a B analysis... more of a general sense of how the draft went, and whether or not it met our needs as I saw them...

and for what a good draft is... it varies person to person... for me : D is jete level... C-, C is average... a C+ is a good draft... B- & B is good to very good, B+ is very good to excellent draft... A knocks it out of the park
It’s all good. “Clown yourself” was maybe a bit harsh; apologies….it was aftermidnight for me posting.

but even in this post; you don’t get introspective at all. ‘I, I was expecting ‘…so ‘THEY, they must be wrong. ‘

All roads lead to Rome
Chocolate and Strawberry are both great ice creams.

so, take a minute to think that maybe your expectations were misplaced and BB just has a different flavor or route to the goal.
i gave the grade an A- in my book; because he hit on needs at every level (round) of the draft.

They needs he hit just weren’t the flavor of the decade (wr) or month (OT). And where he had low confidence-he threw volume at it (CB and OG and WR) like he does every time. Just usually the volume comes from FA and UDFAs. But this year he had picks he couldn’t give away. So he used em.
 
If you root for a sports team and don't have unfounded optimism, then you're doing it wrong. It's entertainment.
As for the rest above, when's the last time the Patriots drafted a player who seems as sure-fire (of course, there's always doubt) as Christian Gonzales? Wilfork?

I'll wait.



You could be right. I don't know what happened with Washington and Kraft, but the Pats were hardly the only ones to let them free-fall. The others? Meh.

I'm not sold on Mapu, but whatever.

It's the JOB of the Patriots marketing team to pump the team. Like, it's WHY they get paid.


As for the media, the network guys aren't paid to get clicks, but to talk to everyone. If you want misery, sports radio is right there waiting - the job of those guys is to be outrageous and angry, contrarian, and generally a-holes. The network media is for people who haven't fallen into misery.


Round 3 was a gamble.
Round 4/5 filled two huge needs - OL and K. I'm optimistic about Sidy Sow, and now I"m hearing many people saying that Mafi is even better, No idea on Andrews, but I'll trust Popovich here. And again, the idea that anyone picked after 3 will be truly meaningful on a team is a massive crapshoot - particularly in a draft that, yes, seemed really weak. My thoughts after reading everything here and elsewhere ar ethat the Pats got at least two guys with the physical attributes to be powerful OL maulers, and that at least one of these three is going to be a valuable contributor.



Draft grades are based on individual opinions - there's no magical metric, Heck, look at the mock simulators - Fanspeak has like 10 boards to choose from and your entire draft will be cornered by the board you choose.

Pats, with mediocre position, got their most promising pick since Wilfork at least, and didn't spend a ton of capital to move up - and STILL got another guy they were thinking about at 17. What the heck is wrong with that? And almost all draft outcomes (unless you've traded away players/picks to have lots of high picks) hinge on the first couple of picks.

The places where the Pats are rated C, or whatever, almost all hinge on the kicker (with never a mention that they used pick 117 (and a sixth), while having the pick 120 from trading down (before taking the best prospect they've had in more than a decade) right behind. Combine those two transactions and they got Ryland with a 6th and 3 slots in the fourth.


And I can't even believe some of the stupidity I'm reading about drafting kickers - one site tweaked the Pats and asked why anyone would draft a kicker, since it never works out - you'd think a site posing as football analysts might have heard of Stephen Gostowski. Kicking and punting cost the Pats at least two games last year. It matters now. A lot.
Gronk, Hernandez off the top of my head that were sure fire and contributed from day 1..
 
Your opinion and mine are not very different. BB loves guys with experience. He also says and does "better to move on from a player a year early than a year too late".

Damien Harris's rookie year was no more promising than Strongs.

Damien Harris, 2019: 4 carries for 12 yards.
 
Your opinion and mine are not very different. BB loves guys with experience. He also says and does "better to move on from a player a year early than a year too late".

Damien Harris's rookie year was no more promising than Strongs.

The ST was poor last year in part because of injury (Montgomery, Davis), and losses of key players not fully replaced (King, Bolden). Change is in the air. K & P almost for sure will be new, and others from this draft/UDFA/FA. Slater near the end - he seems like a guy that if he decides he can't do it, won't need a tap on the shoulder. I'd bet either Montgomery or Davis will be cut, or end up on IR/injury settlement this year. BB is mortified by the ST's performance last year, he won't be again.
The only issue I have is with Montgomery and Davis. They are both Belichick types and should make the 53 if they are not injured again. IMO, Montgomery's injury was a serious disappointment to the ST's last year. Davis is easily replaced, but Montgomery has several roles.
 
I would have loved Mayer, but he went in R2,
thats part of the whole point... we had ammo to move up. didnt use it

I see TE as a need. I still see offensive weapons as a need.

Its the cost of missed opportunities that I rue
 
I saw lists where Ryland was as high as two... never saw him in the pole position... there there were lists where he wasn't even mentioned among 7 or 8 guys... so who's to say if he is good or not ... please know, I will GLADLY eat crow over this if i am wrong... I want him to do well.

The issue i have with it is this... That fourth round pick could have been better spent... Why wasnt it used to move up to a higher round to get a better skill position player... I gladly would have sacrificed a 4th to move up (like Josh did) to snag Michael Mayer... or whoever tickled your fancy in the draft...
 
I'm wondering if BB is tinkering with Owenu as a backup tackle. He did fairly well at RT back in 2020.
 
thats part of the whole point... we had ammo to move up. didnt use it
Did they have the ammo though? The Raiders moved up 3 spots, it cost them 38 and 141. I'm guessing, uneducatedly, that to get in the end of R2 probably would have cost the 3 and maybe a 4 and a pick next year? We are talking about moving up into the 50s from 76. That's big jump, when it seems the values in the 100-130 range was not as high as some other years. I can see a scenario where the Pats would make a call and get told that no one wants your R4s. I am not trying to make excuses or be a homer, just trying to grasp whey they didn't move up when it appeared the ammo was there.
 


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