It is now time for the Brady GOAT case

[BradyFTW!]

Case is closed. You used go have to pick volume stats or championships. Now you can have both, especially since there's a real chance that Brady will pass all of Favre/Manning's records by the time he retires

 

[BradyFTW!]

But thats the point. He is tied in rings and better in every other metric. It can't be a tie, because Brady is tied or better in everything, and better by a good amount in many.

The only remaining case for Montana is one of era, since he played in a less QB-friendly one. At this point I don't think even that's enough for him, though, because whatever disadvantage he gets from that should be offset by having Jerry Rice. Brady's the GOAT.

 

[Ring 6]

Hey I have no problem with what Hasselbeck said. He's basically saying what we all knew and that is how Manning really is the greatest regular season QB of all time. When you want regular season stats and fantasy numbers, Manning is your man.

Even that is wrong.
Regular Season
Brady 160-47
Manning 179-77

All Manning has is about 2000 more pass attempts that make him a stat accumulator.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Especially now that they are tied with 4 Super Bowls a piece, I don't see how losing 2 SBs is a demerit - it's additive to Brady's resume to have 6 conference titles, as AndyJohnson said. Brady has the edge now.

As much as I love Brady, I always contended that Montana is the greatest ever. BUT, there are arguments both ways. Montana had some of greatest offensive weapons ever (Jerry Rice for several years) , he never had to deal with a salary cap, so his team can stay together for many years. Had some very good defenses, and played some mediocre teams in the SB. Brady had some good defenses, and arguably the greatest coach ever. But I will say, Brady had done more with less than any QB ever. And the stats listed above are not arguable. He's the greatest QB EVER. And having been a Pat's fan since 1975, it's shocking to be able to say that.

But thats the point. He is tied in rings and better in every other metric. It can't be a tie, because Brady is tied or better in everything, and better by a good amount in many.

For someone to argue Montana, there really are only two small points left:

Montana has a better playoff QBR
Montana is undefeated in SBs

I agree with most how the undefeated SB argument is flawed, but someone could still argue it. Brady has nearly every other statistic/measuring stick.

Regardless, the 2015 AFC will be at an all-time low. We will have $ to resign Revis/McCourty and five picks in the top 105. We also have the best young LBs in the NFL that will continue to improve.

Brady is returning to the SB next year barring crazy injuries. He will have his chance to go out like Elway with back to back and get the one for the thumb anyway.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

13 years as starter. 6 SBs played. Nearly 50%.

 

[sb1]

Even that is wrong.
Regular Season
Brady 160-47
Manning 179-77

All Manning has is about 2000 more pass attempts that make him a stat accumulator.

Touche. Like I said, when you want regular season stats... Peyton is your QB. I'd rather have wins and rings.

 

[Bruins29]

The only remaining case for Montana is one of era, since he played in a less QB-friendly one. At this point I don't think even that's enough for him, though, because whatever disadvantage he gets from that should be offset by having Jerry Rice. Brady's the GOAT.

I dont buy that argument. People say that Montana should get credit because the backs were allowed to maul the receivers. So what!!! The 49ers backs were allowed to do it too, so it was even. The difference was that the 49ers were able to keep a stacked team together and they played teams that were not fortunate enough to take advantage of that.

 

[Ring 6]

The only remaining case for Montana is one of era, since he played in a less QB-friendly one. At this point I don't think even that's enough for him, though, because whatever disadvantage he gets from that should be offset by having Jerry Rice. Brady's the GOAT.

He also was the 1st qb ever in the innovative WCO with one of the all time genius offensive coaches.

 

[JMC00]

The only remaining case for Montana is one of era, since he played in a less QB-friendly one. At this point I don't think even that's enough for him, though, because whatever disadvantage he gets from that should be offset by having Jerry Rice. Brady's the GOAT.

Well it's not like 01-04 was that QB-friendly.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Especially now that they are tied with 4 Super Bowls a piece, I don't see how losing 2 SBs is a demerit - it's additive to Brady's resume to have 6 conference titles, as AndyJohnson said. Brady has the edge now.

Yeah that 'no SB losses' argument has always made no sense to me. In the years Montana didn't win a SB he either lost in the NFC playoffs or regular season. So in essense they're trying to say it's somehow better to lose in the NFC playoffs or regular season than to lead your team to the SB and lose.

 

[Haterproof]

He was the greatest before last night IMO! Last night was definitely the final nail in the coffin of the Brady vs Manning debate! Their names shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath anymore! Boy if Brady & the Pats make it to the SB in San Francisco next year! That has potential to be a home game for the Pats if they're fortunate to enough to get there!

 

[nabwong]

The only 1st rounder on our entire offense is solder.

Jojo 3
Minitron 7
Amendola 0
Vereen 2
Gronk 2
Solder 1
Connolly 0
Stork 4
Wendell 0
Vollmer 2

Brady 6

Plus
Blount 6
Devlin 0
Fleming 5
Kline 0
Bolden 0
Wright 0
Gap 2
Hooman 5

Etc

 

[Bruins29]

Depends on the agenda. People hate Brady so there will always be people who will cherry pick stats to fit their case. Whatever

 

[Ring 6]

I dont buy that argument. People say that Montana should get credit because the backs were allowed to maul the receivers. So what!!! The 49ers backs were allowed to do it too, so it was even. The difference was that the 49ers were able to keep a stacked team together and they played teams that were not fortunate enough to take advantage of that.

The rule was implemented before Montana entered the league.

 

[RDS11]

Montana did not play quality opponents in the Super Bowl - 2X against an average Denver Broncos team and 2X against an average Bengals team. Brady beat the greatest show on turf and the legion of boom. Brady also won the super bowl his first season as a starter, it took Montana 3 years.

I don't think it can be taken off Montana's accomplishment; he had to play the AFC team that got there.
But at the same time, Brady had to to this in the free agency era, when it's hard to keep the core of players for a long period of time. Just for that, I think Brady should get the nod.

I think longevity has to be accounted for. Montana won his first Super Bowl in 1981, his last in 1989 (8 years apart). Bradshaw won 4 in a 6 years span. I think Unitas is the one getting the closest to Brady (first in 1958, last in 1970) but by the time he won his last, we wasn't close to the player he was in his prime; in fact, he got injured in the 1st half of Super Bowl 5 and didn't have a huge impact on the game. Brady was even better as a 37 years old than he was as a 24 years old playing his first Super Bowl (last drive aside, he played okay in his first game, but didn't have to carry the team like he had to last night).

Every way you look at it, Brady gets the nod.

 

[Ring 6]

Depends on the agenda. People hate Brady so there will always be people who will cherry pick stats to fit their case. Whatever

I can see that point, but cannot see what stats exist to cherry pick.

 

[BradyManny]

The different eras argument can be applied to statistics. Yes, it is easier to pile stats now. But it's not any easier to win SBs. If anything, the salary cap age should've made winning four much harder.

 

[Bruins29]

I can see that point, but cannot see what stats exist to cherry pick.

I dont either. The Manning argument seems silly.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Also, consider who the hall of famers Montana played with - Dwight clark, jerry rice, fred dean, ronnie lott, roger craig. Hall of famers brady played with - Moss (and they didn't win the super bowl with him); possible HOFers - Ty Law, Vince Wilfork, Gronk, Revis. He won his first 3 titles without a HOFer.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah that 'no SB losses' argument has always made no sense to me. In the years Montana didn't win a SB he either lost in the NFC playoffs or regular season. So in essense they're trying to say it's somehow better to lose in the NFC playoffs or regular season than to lead your team to the SB and lose.

You have to look at it this way:

8 seasons for each QB (leaving out seasons they won a game but not a conf champ or further)
Brady
Has 4 SB wins (12-0)
Has 2 AFCCG wins and SB losses (4-2)
Has only 2 one and dones (0-2)


Montana
Has 4 SB wins (12-0)
Has 4 one and dones. (0-4)


Please explain how 2 one and dones is better than 2 Conference Championships